Questions on antique mirrors

[Lazy8s]

Anyone here in the know? I’m working on a piece my wife acquired, maybe 80 years old at a guess. But the glass, the mirror, is like nothing I’ve ever seen. The bevel in the glass is subtle and just exquisite, and the glass has a depth to it that I have never seen in any mirror anywhere before. The photo simply does not do it justice. Even color looks richer and deeper, regardless of mirror placement and light. It still needs cleaning here, but anyone who can share any knowledge on it, sure would be appreciated.

 

[mizzer]

All I know is that older mirrors used silver on the back of the glass. Newer mirrors use cheaper aluminum.

That's all I got.

 

[Lazy8s]

All I know is that older mirrors used silver on the back of the glass. Newer mirrors use cheaper aluminum.

That's all I got.

Interesting bit though…I’ll look into that. Thanks!

 

[nutcrackr]

And to test if it's silver on the back, put your finger on it and if you see a gap between the finger reflection, THAR BE SILVER BOY. Possibly billions of dollars!

Just take good hard look in the mirror

 

[koralis]

Silver can also tarnish with an amberish hue in the right circumstances, which could explain the deep color notes you had. (extreme silver tarnish is black)


https://www.quora.com/Does-sterling-silver-turn-yellow

When most Sterling silver alloys (typically 925 Ag + 075 Cu) start to tarnish by reacting with elemental sulfur containing gases commonly found in atmospheric air, the tarnish starts as a faint light to golden yellow, then brown, then blue-black.

The same is true for most common pre WWII European silver alloys that typically range from 750/1000 to about 960/1000 silver content.

Depending on the age, the silver alloy could have had a higher copper content and made things cheaper to use.

 

[Lazy8s]

All I know is that older mirrors used silver on the back of the glass. Newer mirrors use cheaper aluminum.

That's all I got.

It was a good start

Silver can also tarnish with an amberish hue in the right circumstances, which could explain the deep color notes you had. (extreme silver tarnish is black)


https://www.quora.com/Does-sterling-silver-turn-yellow



Depending on the age, the silver alloy could have had a higher copper content and made things cheaper to use.

I was hoping you would pop in

That “amberish “ hue would explain an awful lot. I hesitated to mention it because I wasn’t sure if it was the basement lighting, reflections from anything else etc, but it’s certainly there, very “deep” for lack of a better term. Almost jewel like.

The wife is considering keeping the piece after it’s finished, just due to the beauty of it alone. It’s truly stunning in person.

Thanks for the input koralis

 

[koralis]

You know, I feel silly for not thinking of this before... I think the silvering thing caught my attention.


The main factor is probably LEADED GLASS. Like Crystal stemware, etc. With that in mind, easy enough to find info confirming it as a likely possibility.


https://margovenetianmirror.com/find-the-best-antique-lead-glass-mirror/

Find The Best Antique Lead Glass Mirror

One if the kind of the glass mirror is Antique Lead Glass Mirror is glasses that contain a high percentage of lead oxide and have brilliant and shimmering clarity, usually called crystals. The term lead crystal is, technically, not an appropriate term for describing tinfoil, as amorphous solids, glasses have no crystal structure.

 

[Lazy8s]

You know, I feel silly for not thinking of this before... I think the silvering thing caught my attention.


The main factor is probably LEADED GLASS. Like Crystal stemware, etc. With that in mind, easy enough to find info confirming it as a likely possibility.


https://margovenetianmirror.com/find-the-best-antique-lead-glass-mirror/

This is great info koralis, thank you

I just did the “toothpick” test, based on searches from your recommendations and it is definitely not a newer mirror. There’s a substantial distance between the needle I used on the glass and it’s reflection, so the glass is deep.

I also inspected the oxidation and it is almost exclusively towards the bottom of the piece.

There is also the presence of the finest of scratches, barely visible to my eye, but supposedly that’s also an indicator.

I’m debating an attempt at removing the backing to look for any manufacturers markings, but it’s pretty fragile. The next best step may be a stop at an actual antique dealer or appraiser.

Thank you sir for the insight Digging into this piece is actually exciting, and having an idea of what to look for is a huge +

 

[koralis]

potentially mercury/tin for the reflective surface if it's old enough

https://www.newmoa.org/prevention/mercury/projects/legacy/antiques.cfm

Mirrors

Description: Most 16th century mirrors, including mirrors attached to antique dressers, were likely produced using a liquid mercury amalgam. The mercury is actually contained in the reflective layer behind the glass portion of the mirror. Other types of antique mirrors that contain mercury include "silvered" mirrors and tin mirrors. Mirror makers stopped using mercury in the 1840s, instead switching to silver nitrate, which is still used today.

Purpose of the Mercury: During the 16th century, liquid metals were used in the production of mirrors. The method involved backing a sheet of flat glass with a thin layer of reflecting metal. The metal used for this reflecting layer was an amalgam consisting of approximately 25 percent mercury and 75 percent tin.


Potential Hazards: Antique mirrors are surprisingly well-preserved, with the amalgamated mercury not usually a concern. However, when resurfacing an antique mirror, workers should take proper precautions to avoid inhaling mercury vapor.

Extra care should be taken when cleaning up a broken mirror that contains mercury. Persons should always wear gloves and place the broken pieces of glass and mercury amalgam in a puncture-resistant container with a sealed lid for hazardous waste disposal. If a break does occur, it is likely that the mercury vapor concentrations emitted from the mirror amalgam "flakes" would exceed safe indoor air levels. Persons should immediately contact their state environmental agency for instructions on proper clean-up and disposal. They should contact their public health department or poison control center if they have been exposed to the mercury.

Recycling/Disposal: Many states offer household hazardous waste collection programs for recycling and disposal of mercury-containing items, including antique mirrors. Some states and municipalities provide this service free of charge, while others require a small fee. Persons should first check with their local municipality to find out about the specific recycling and disposal options (including which products are accepted).

Persons should not attempt to remove the mirror if it is attached to a piece of furniture. If the mirror were to break, any wastes associated with that break, including the glass and clean-up materials, would need to be disposed of as hazardous waste.

Statutes and Other Information: Although there may not be any regulations specifically identifying antique mirrors as a mercury-added product that is banned from sale, in some states, including Connecticut, Louisiana, and Rhode Island, the amount of mercury they contain (greater than one gram) would prohibit them from being sold. However, because of the difficultly in regulating antiques, many antique dealers continue to sell these mirrors in stores and online regardless of state mercury-added products laws. Some states, including Connecticut, offer a specific exemption for antiques containing mercury.

 

[mizzer]

As I get older it’s stuff like this thread that interest me more and more.

 

[Lazy8s]

potentially mercury/tin for the reflective surface if it's old enough

https://www.newmoa.org/prevention/mercury/projects/legacy/antiques.cfm

This is super interesting as this mirror was indeed off of an old dresser. The dresser had been in a clients family for “generations” per my wife’s client. We thought she may be exaggerating a bit as she is older (90+) and not very clear any more.

My wife wanted to keep the mirror as the dresser itself was literally falling apart, beyond repair.

Nice find on that information

 

[Lazy8s]

As I get older it’s stuff like this thread that interest me more and more.

Same here There’s something extremely satisfying about bringing an older piece “back to life”.

I’m still amateur level, but pretty handy and learning fast. It just feels good and right

 

[bill dennison]

it would be older than 80 years if mercury

The production of mercury mirrors had several drawbacks. The mirrors were very expensive and rather small in size, but worst of all, it was the cause of many mirror-makers' death. Mercury is a highly toxic and dangerous chemical element, which made for frequent deathly accidents. A mirror-maker's average life span was no longer than 10 working years.
As soon as a new method was discovered, this one was banned. In 1835, Justus von Liebig (1803-1873, Austrian) invented the silver nitrate mirror, a new, non-toxic process of spraying a thin layer of silver on a glass plate lined with tin to emphasize the mirror's reflectivity.
Today, mirrors are produced with aluminum vacuum coating, using the same method but substituting silver with aluminum.

https://www.marcmaison.com/architectural-antiques-resources/mercury-mirror

that is a very nice peace



and looks like a back breaker :lol

be careful have help

 

[Lazy8s]

it would be older than 80 years if mercury



https://www.marcmaison.com/architectural-antiques-resources/mercury-mirror

that is a very nice peace



and looks like a back breaker :lol

be careful have help

I got a little more info from my wife last night. Her client is late 80s, not 90s like I thought, but this was her grandmother’s dresser and mirror, so yeah it’s old.

And yessir, it’s heavy lol. The photo might be a bit deceptive though. The mirror is roughly 30”x42” and maybe 50lbs give or take. Surprised the heck out of me the first time I picked it up lol.

 

[koralis]

I got a little more info from my wife last night. Her client is late 80s, not 90s like I thought, but this was her grandmother’s dresser and mirror, so yeah it’s old.

Just some back of the envelope estimates would put it at around the turn of the century then? 1900 thereabout? Probably not mercury then.

 

[Lazy8s]

Just some back of the envelope estimates would put it at around the turn of the century then? 1900 thereabout? Probably not mercury then.

Agreed. I don’t know if the client knows how long her grandmother had it, or where she got it. Plus the fact that the oxidation patterns fit the description for silver oxidation almost perfectly.