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NWR_Midnight Dec 6, 2020 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordHawkwind (Post 1338249707)
TBH it's a fairly mute point anyway as it's virtually impossible to buy a Zen 3 CPU and a 6800 GPU (here in the UK). So not many people will be using the feature. It will be interesting if Nvidia do enable it and it works on older AMD Zen CPU's :lol: :bleh:

If AMD have made the conscious decision not to allow it on Zen+ and Zen 2 then that's their choice but why does it need an X570 mobo when it's a PCIE 3 sig? Why wouldn't it work on my X470 if I get a Zen 3 and a 6800XT? I can't see the point of buying a new motherboard for a dead platform. Been there with Intel thank you.

See Bold: Motherboard manufacture dependent, not AMD. It is 100% up to the motherboard manufacture which motherboards will get such ability for the 400 series. Even the bios update released over the last week for a handful of 400 series motherboards are all UNOFFICIAL, meaning they are not approved by AMD. Your motherboard didn't get such update until 2 days ago 12/04/2020, so you can get the zen3 and use a 6800 series card. We don't know if they will every be OFFICIAL due to the same reason's that not all 400 series motherboards will get 5000 series support.

When AMD announced the 6800 series, and on it's release day (2.5 weeks ago) the only Motherboards on the planet that supported the 5000 series CPU's and resizable-bar where the 500 series.

Your "entitlement" rant, which is how your complaint comes across is just that. The AM4 platform could have officially been dead as of January 2020 due to AMD's promise. The fact that AMD has continued thru 2020 is a bonus. Not an entitlement. We should be thanking AMD, not complaining.

We should also be thanking AMD that they forced or pushed Intel and Nvidia into enabling resizeable-bar (SAMS).

bill dennison Dec 6, 2020 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight (Post 1338249747)
See Bold: Motherboard manufacture dependent, not AMD. It is 100% up to the motherboard manufacture which motherboards will get such ability for the 400 series. Even the bios update released over the last week for a handful of 400 series motherboards are all UNOFFICIAL, meaning they are not approved by AMD. Your motherboard didn't get such update until 2 days ago 12/04/2020, so you can get the zen3 and use a 6800 series card. We don't know if they will every be OFFICIAL due to the same reason's that not all 400 series motherboards will get 5000 series support.

When AMD announced the 6800 series, and on it's release day (2.5 weeks ago) the only Motherboards on the planet that supported the 5000 series CPU's and resizable-bar where the 500 series.

Your "entitlement" rant, which is how your complaint comes across is just that. The AM4 platform could have officially been dead as of January 2020 due to AMD's promise. The fact that AMD has continued thru 2020 is a bonus. Not an entitlement. We should be thanking AMD, not complaining.

We should also be thanking AMD that they forced or pushed Intel and Nvidia into enabling resizeable-bar (SAMS).

not working on my 2080 ti :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :evil:
not working a 3080/90 yet :p

odd that it is working on some Intel's and 6800 xt's :hmm:

when i can get a 6900 xt or they got it working on my 2080 ti if ever i will buy a 5900x or 5950x


....

and if i remember right, but i only think it was him it maybe someone else
people told him not to buy the 400 series MB two or three weeks before the 500's came out

Falck Dec 7, 2020 07:16 AM

Chernobylite
 
So I kinda did some benchmarking in Chernobylite. The graphical glitches only happened in the summary, the benchmark showed/rendered everything like it should. This was in DX11. Will try a run in DX12 also to see if there's any difference. Latest driver ofc.










LordHawkwind Dec 7, 2020 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dennison (Post 1338249748)
not working on my 2080 ti :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :evil:
not working a 3080/90 yet :p

odd that it is working on some Intel's and 6800 xt's :hmm:

when i can get a 6900 xt or they got it working on my 2080 ti if ever i will buy a 5900x or 5950x
....
and if i remember right, but i only think it was him it maybe someone else
people told him not to buy the 400 series MB two or three weeks before the 500's came out

You keep getting me mixed up with other people Bill. I bought my X470 more than 6 months before the X570 were available in the channel. Asus have released a new Bios 5809 that includes support for new CPU's and resizable BAR so all is good on that front. If I buy a new 5600X in the New Year I should be good to go. Just need a 6800/6900XT :lol: :rolleyes:

So tomorrow is the official release of the 6900XT and I've not seen any listings on the major UK retailer sites yet. Not surprising as most don't have 6800XT listed yet. I know it's going to be another no supply fook up but a part of me is hoping that at around 1,000 the scalpers and bots might not be as interested. To make a reasonable profit they'd have to sell them for 1,500 and you would really be certifiably insane to pay that much for one.

Look Bill I was that guy who bought 7700K when they launched and everyone told me to wait for Zen but TBF I think I was right given all the issues with Zen release bioses and motherboard shortages. And my best one was the Vega 64 and the under powered PSU, my bad.

NWR_Midnight Dec 7, 2020 05:02 PM

Hey Bill! multi gpu with the 6800 series is still a thing thanks to dx12. Results look to be hit or miss depending on the game (only 2 games shown in the article below), which was always the case before as well.

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-rade...-configuration

bill dennison Dec 7, 2020 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight (Post 1338250014)
Hey Bill! multi gpu with the 6800 series is still a thing thanks to dx12. Results look to be hit or miss depending on the game (only 2 games shown in the article below), which was always the case before as well.

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-rade...-configuration

can't get one card now you want me to buy two :lol:
i would need my visa card and AR15 :lol:



i very well might if 6900 xt CFX works in cyberpunk 2077 as it looks like it really needs more than one GPU

and 3090/80 SLI would need a second PSU :evil:

NWR_Midnight Dec 7, 2020 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dennison (Post 1338250041)
can't get one card now you want me to buy two :lol:
i would need my visa card and AR15 :lol:



i very well might if 6900 xt CFX works in cyberpunk 2077 as it looks like it really needs more than one GPU

and 3090/80 SLI would need a second PSU :evil:

Yeah, I saw that about Cyberpunk 2077, it's the new "but can it run Crysis". Or going forward "But can it run Cyberpunk 2077". :lol:

bill dennison Dec 7, 2020 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight (Post 1338250052)
Yeah, I saw that about Cyberpunk 2077, it's the new "but can it run Crysis". Or going forward "But can it run Cyberpunk 2077". :lol:

but with Crysis we had SLI/CFX and that did make it playable

pax Dec 7, 2020 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight (Post 1338250014)
Hey Bill! multi gpu with the 6800 series is still a thing thanks to dx12. Results look to be hit or miss depending on the game (only 2 games shown in the article below), which was always the case before as well.

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-rade...-configuration


Scales decently to 4k but I thought mgpu was dead??? Is it game agnostic?

bill dennison Dec 7, 2020 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pax (Post 1338250057)
Scales decently to 4k but I thought mgpu was dead??? Is it game agnostic?

some games support it in DX12

acroig Dec 7, 2020 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pax (Post 1338250057)
Scales decently to 4k but I thought mgpu was dead??? Is it game agnostic?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dennison (Post 1338250078)
some games support it in DX12

Like Bill said the game engine has to allow for MGPU support under DX12. Hence why nV and I believe AMD has stopped MGPU support at the driver level.

pax Dec 7, 2020 09:33 PM

It sounds like games dont need to express it for it to work at some level, just the game's engine. But not having driver support I suppose is killer. Yet we are seeing it work so some kind of toggles are still on in the drivers...

I can see some people going back to mgpu if it did... Im kinda impressed as we thought this had been killed off long ago. Could be a must have at the high end as we goto 8k along with DLSS/SR.

NWR_Midnight Dec 7, 2020 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acroig (Post 1338250079)
Like Bill said the game engine has to allow for MGPU support under DX12. Hence why nV and I believe AMD has stopped MGPU support at the driver level.

Even before dx12, with crossfire/sli via drivers, the game had to support it. Nothing has changed there.

pax Dec 7, 2020 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight (Post 1338250083)
Even before dx12, with crossfire/sli via drivers, the game had to support it. Nothing has changed there.

But we are seeing it work without official driver support... so its a game engine specific thing to enable it? We seem to have api's and game drivers working to some level even if not worked on in years.

pax Dec 7, 2020 09:47 PM

6900XT TUF

https://wccftech.com/first-custom-am...graphics-card/

Like the all black look:


bobvodka Dec 8, 2020 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pax (Post 1338250082)
It sounds like games dont need to express it for it to work at some level, just the game's engine. But not having driver support I suppose is killer. Yet we are seeing it work so some kind of toggles are still on in the drivers...

I can see some people going back to mgpu if it did... Im kinda impressed as we thought this had been killed off long ago. Could be a must have at the high end as we goto 8k along with DLSS/SR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight (Post 1338250083)
Even before dx12, with crossfire/sli via drivers, the game had to support it. Nothing has changed there.

Eh, yes and no.

Pre-DX12/Vulkan games had very little control over what happened in an SLI/XFire context - at best we could try and invoke some magics to make it work, but we were at the mercy of NV/AMDs drivers as all we saw is a single device and we submitted draw calls to that - if it ended up running on GPU0 or GPU1, well, that was up to the driver, which also managed cross frame copying of data (mostly previous frame output from post processing being fed into the next frame).

A game I worked on some years back had an issue where in SLI mode it was running slower than with a single card; after some poking about it seemed that if you made it run in "mode 2" in the control panel it worked fine. The bug went up the producer chain with a note; someone talk to NV and get them to configure their driver so our game works like this. No idea if it ever happened.

With Vulkan and DX12 however we can see all the devices, potentially, in the system - so if you had 2x 3090 in your system, under DX11 we'd get a single device, but in Vulkan/DX12 we'd see both of them with all their queues and memory.

On the one hand that means you don't need the IHV to add in driver support for your game to get the best performance (beyond the old generic sli mode support you would have got for free before), but on the other hand it requires your game/engine to be coded in such a way that it can work with more than one card and handle all the memory allocation, moving of stuff around, and dispatching work.

There is probably some SLI/Xfire stuff kicking about in drivers, DX12 has a 'linked adapter mode' which makes it work like DX11, in that you only see one device, but I'd be surprised if the IHVs put any real effort into that - and afaik Vulkan doesn't have anything like it - the expectation seems to be going forward that if a game dev wants to support more than one adapter they had to do it themselves or get an engine that does it.

TLDR:
- DX11 era; games could do very little to influence SLI performance/support
- DX12/Vulkan era; games/engines pretty much have to handle SLI performance/support themselves.

Trunks0 Dec 8, 2020 03:37 AM

Yup and game dev's are already overloaded and have almost no time to really make SLI/Crossfire work. So while Vulkan & DX12 brought some big advantages/advancement, it also tolled the death knell for SLI/Crossfire.

Nunz Dec 8, 2020 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight (Post 1338250083)
Even before dx12, with crossfire/sli via drivers, the game had to support it. Nothing has changed there.

Not necessarily. You used to be able to brute-force SLI in games prior to DX12 (mostly during the days of DX9/10). The scaling was sometimes shockingly good, other times it was mediocre at best, maybe 50% max.

Either way, the game didn't need support. Forcing SLI compatibility bits in games that had zero SLI support through NV Inspector was a fun time. I miss when being a power user was useful as a PC gamer.

SuperGeil Dec 8, 2020 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobvodka (Post 1338250145)
Eh, yes and no.

Pre-DX12/Vulkan games had very little control over what happened in an SLI/XFire context - at best we could try and invoke some magics to make it work, but we were at the mercy of NV/AMDs drivers as all we saw is a single device and we submitted draw calls to that - if it ended up running on GPU0 or GPU1, well, that was up to the driver, which also managed cross frame copying of data (mostly previous frame output from post processing being fed into the next frame).

A game I worked on some years back had an issue where in SLI mode it was running slower than with a single card; after some poking about it seemed that if you made it run in "mode 2" in the control panel it worked fine. The bug went up the producer chain with a note; someone talk to NV and get them to configure their driver so our game works like this. No idea if it ever happened.

With Vulkan and DX12 however we can see all the devices, potentially, in the system - so if you had 2x 3090 in your system, under DX11 we'd get a single device, but in Vulkan/DX12 we'd see both of them with all their queues and memory.

On the one hand that means you don't need the IHV to add in driver support for your game to get the best performance (beyond the old generic sli mode support you would have got for free before), but on the other hand it requires your game/engine to be coded in such a way that it can work with more than one card and handle all the memory allocation, moving of stuff around, and dispatching work.

There is probably some SLI/Xfire stuff kicking about in drivers, DX12 has a 'linked adapter mode' which makes it work like DX11, in that you only see one device, but I'd be surprised if the IHVs put any real effort into that - and afaik Vulkan doesn't have anything like it - the expectation seems to be going forward that if a game dev wants to support more than one adapter they had to do it themselves or get an engine that does it.

TLDR:
- DX11 era; games could do very little to influence SLI performance/support
- DX12/Vulkan era; games/engines pretty much have to handle SLI performance/support themselves.

This was great to learn about, danke!

Nunz Dec 8, 2020 08:04 AM

Anyone watching the 6900XT launch?

:lol: I dare anyone to talk **** about NVs launch. This is hilarious, and worse than it was with the 3080/3090. Powercolor on Newegg was in stock for literally .000001 seconds. Everyone on the paper launch wave!

GSGRUNT Dec 8, 2020 08:21 AM

I watched Hardware Unboxed and Gamers Nexus reviews. meh.
Also looked for the ability to buy, didn't see any. Like the 3090, I wouldn't buy one anyway.

AllexxisF1 Dec 8, 2020 08:41 AM

6800XT or 3080 is the way to go. These boutique ultra-high-end for 11% percent performance-ish, isn't worth the cash.

Nunz Dec 8, 2020 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllexxisF1 (Post 1338250184)
6800XT or 3080 is the way to go. These boutique ultra-high-end for 11% percent performance-ish, isn't worth the cash.

For 4K, the 6800XT does not cut it. The 6900XT at $999 is not a boutique priced card; the 3090, however .. yep.

Meh. I take that back. Watching reviews right now, and I retract my statement to the 6800XT does not cut it for 4K+RT on.

The more reviews I watch, the less I'm impressed with the 6900XT. At least the 3090 can be opened up with the 500watt BIOS to get more than that 5-10% increase. I'm hoping with some shunt mods the 6900XT widens its gap a bit..

AllexxisF1 Dec 8, 2020 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nunz (Post 1338250186)
For 4K, the 6800XT does not cut it. The 6900XT at $999 is not a boutique priced card; the 3090, however .. yep.

Fair.

6800XT is damn fine for 1440p. That's where I live, and where my money is going.

GSGRUNT Dec 8, 2020 08:49 AM

Any of the reviews test CryEngine games? Did AMD fix this RX6000 driver issue yet?

SuperGeil Dec 8, 2020 09:01 AM

Graphics cards past $200 are ''boutique''. There is a fine line between hobby and crisis. :sherlock:

acroig Dec 8, 2020 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight (Post 1338250083)
Even before dx12, with crossfire/sli via drivers, the game had to support it. Nothing has changed there.

No, that's incorrect. If the driver had an SLI profile then you were good to go.

Nunz Dec 8, 2020 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperGeil (Post 1338250190)
Graphics cards past $200 are ''boutique''. There is a fine line between hobby and crisis. :sherlock:

No, you're wrong. Graphics cards past $125 are "boutique!". If you pay more than that, you're just wasting your money and pumping your ego.

acroig Dec 8, 2020 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nunz (Post 1338250194)
No, you're wrong. Graphics cards past $125 are "boutique!". If you pay more than that, you're just wasting your money and pumping your ego.

I guess we've pumped ourselves up, didn't we? :D

Gandalfthewhite Dec 8, 2020 09:19 AM

you realize everyone and their mother has bots setup now for newegg and amazon ? Like you cannot buy anything without it going OOS immediately. After the NV launch everyone started using bots.


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