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Nunz Feb 2, 2021 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pax (Post 1338265331)
But if you can make a few million more consoles in the next year you wont because... reasons?

There's more to it than just doing it, and you know it. There's contracts that already exist with TSMC, which I'm sure they wouldn't be happy about losing future production to their main competition in the fabrication market. Sony/MS both agreeing to redesigning coolers, new contracts written with Samsung, and the fact that Samsung and TSMC nodes are completely different, so who knows how the architecture lines up on Samsung 8nm. This is only the limitations I can think of, I can only imagine what other restrictions and contracts are involved that I don't/can't think of.

Different sizes, densities, etc.. you guys are living in fairyland for some insane reason. Come join the rest of us back in reality.

Nascar24 Feb 2, 2021 10:49 AM

Billy you have moved to the loony bin with your talk:lol: Nothing will be moving around this gen.

pax Feb 2, 2021 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nunz (Post 1338265373)
There's more to it than just doing it, and you know it. There's contracts that already exist with TSMC, which I'm sure they wouldn't be happy about losing future production to their main competition in the fabrication market. Sony/MS both agreeing to redesigning coolers, new contracts written with Samsung, and the fact that Samsung and TSMC nodes are completely different, so who knows how the architecture lines up on Samsung 8nm. This is only the limitations I can think of, I can only imagine what other restrictions and contracts are involved that I don't/can't think of.

Different sizes, densities, etc.. you guys are living in fairyland for some insane reason. Come join the rest of us back in reality.

TSMC wont be losing squat for years... they are maxed out. If anything if TSMC cant meet obligations it opens up the ability for buyers to go elsewhere.

acroig Feb 2, 2021 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pax (Post 1338265428)
If anything if TSMC cant meet obligations it opens up the ability for buyers to go elsewhere.

Remind me who has another 7nm fab waiting for those buyers? :bleh:

bill dennison Feb 2, 2021 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acroig (Post 1338265435)
Remind me who has another 7nm fab waiting for those buyers? :bleh:

:lol:
your the one that started this with

Quote:

AMD could outsource some of its APU and GPU production to Samsung in the near future
https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-co....517679.0.html

.........

if they can outsource a APU or low or midrange GPU then they can outsource a game console SOC also
as Samsung wants something from AMD also

Quote:

AMD graphics cards are coming to Samsung phones
https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/samsung-smartphones

..............

and give me a fu*king brake we have had to listened to months and months of rumors and people here how NV was going to switch ampere back to TSMC 7nm but that was fine :lol:

but say one word about AMD outsourcing game console SOC's to Samsung and it's the end of the world


:p

acroig Feb 2, 2021 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dennison (Post 1338265461)
:lol:
your the one that started this with



https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-co....517679.0.html


and give me a fu*king brake we have had to listened to months and months of rumors and people here how NV was going to switch ampere back to TSMC 7nm but that was fine :lol:

but say one word about AMD outsourcing game console SOC's to Samsung and it's the end of the world

I think the point is that TSMC has no capacity, nV can't do it until the far future, AMD can't get more out of them and outsourcing MS/Sony chips won't work.

Nunz Feb 2, 2021 01:00 PM

It's different when it's AMD or NV's direct designs that affect no one but themselves. This isn't nearly the same as it involves another party and the contracts and litigations that have already been made. You can't seriously think it's even remotely close to the same situation, right?

bill dennison Feb 2, 2021 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acroig (Post 1338265464)
I think the point is that TSMC has no capacity, nV can't do it until the far future, AMD can't get more out of them and outsourcing MS/Sony chips won't work.

and i think that is BS .

"if they can APU's or low or midrange GPU's then they can outsource a game console SOC"

and Samsung does have capacity and it would free up capacity at TSMC for CPU's and high end GPU's that don't do so well on Samsung

maybe even some NV ones later in the year like maybe a 3080 ti :hmm:
but it would kill the 3090 flat out

bill dennison Feb 2, 2021 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nunz (Post 1338265481)
It's different when it's AMD or NV's direct designs that affect no one but themselves. This isn't nearly the same as it involves another party and the contracts and litigations that have already been made. You can't seriously think it's even remotely close to the same situation, right?

from all reports AMD has more than filled their contracts
but now they want more & more now that AMD has switched their TSMC capacity to their own CPU's and GPU's more as planed

they don't get 100% of AMD's TSMC capacity forever and i'm sure that was in the contracts lisa su isn't stupid
but now they need and want it
hell they want 100% of TSMC's full 7nm capacity now **** Apple :lol:

they would bend to need if they can get more chips .

LordHawkwind Feb 2, 2021 02:43 PM

Billy look at it this way. The consoles are not AMD products. They only make the SoC. Can you imagine either M$ or $ony accepting two variants of their consoles where one might be different than the other? They've paid AMD for only one console SoC and that is all they want. AMD is minuscule compared to those two behemoths so really do you think that's going to happen?

bill dennison Feb 2, 2021 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordHawkwind (Post 1338265506)
Billy look at it this way. The consoles are not AMD products. They only make the SoC. Can you imagine either M$ or $ony accepting two variants of their consoles where one might be different than the other? They've paid AMD for only one console SoC and that is all they want. AMD is minuscule compared to those two behemoths so really do you think that's going to happen?

you are so full of AMD hate of late :nuts:

then they get no more than the contract says and they are over that now i think
they want extra SOC's because they and everyone underestimated demand

sorry LordHawkwind says no :lol:



and who they going to go to Intel & raja :lol: :lol:

NVidia :lol: :lol: :lol: the game consoles would be 1500 bucks :lol:

pax Feb 3, 2021 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dennison (Post 1338265530)
you are so full of AMD hate of late :nuts:

then they get no more than the contract says and they are over that now i think
they want extra SOC's because they and everyone underestimated demand

sorry LordHawkwind says no :lol:



and who they going to go to Intel & raja :lol: :lol:

NVidia :lol: :lol: :lol: the game consoles would be 1500 bucks :lol:

Wit this kind of a report I cant see AMD not doing it for its gpus:

https://www.techpowerup.com/278073/d...top-and-mobile


Quote:

AMD's CPU offerings are generally considered to best Intel's competition, especially since the company's Zen 3, Ryzen-5000 series of CPUs launched to great critical and customer acclaim. However, silicon performance can only get you so far - one other issue impacting market penetration is availability of said processors. As AMD fights for constrained wafer supply from TSMC - in no small part due to their focusing of their entire portfolio on the company's highly-sought 7 nm process - users worldwide are generally seeing insufficient stocks of AMD silicon to satisfy their needs. And as such, it seems that at least some users are going with Intel solutions, due to their higher availability in the market.

According to a report from Mercury Research, AMD's constrained chip supply has led the company to a market share loss QoQ. AMD's desktop penetration fell from 20.1% to 19.3% in a single quarter, and its mobile market share saw a similar decrease, going from a 20.1% share down to 19.1%.


If only to free up cpu production they need to move some gpus to samsung. Oddly enough amd cpus are even harder to come by and even more overpriced than gpu's up here.

bill dennison Feb 3, 2021 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pax (Post 1338265822)
Wit this kind of a report I cant see AMD not doing it for its gpus:

https://www.techpowerup.com/278073/d...top-and-mobile




If only to free up cpu production they need to move some gpus to samsung. Oddly enough amd cpus are even harder to come by and even more overpriced than gpu's up here.

and only moving the game consoles will free up enough .

by stock they haven't been making that many of any GPU's to free up anything for CPU's

they made game consoles and some CPU's for months and were supposed switch over to GPU's from game consoles by now i don't think they have much

2 the game consoles would be fine on Samsung being much lower watts a 6800 xt or 6900 xt wouldn't
it would just make them match NV's wattage or higher and kill them

if they were both high wattage Samsung chips i would go with NV or none

.......

Quote:

PS5 Sells Over 4 Million Units Since Launch & Shows No Signs Of Stopping
https://screenrant.com/ps5-sales-4-m...wn%20in%202021.


they can't keep up with these numbers from TSMC .
they could pump every tsmc wafer they have into game consoles and not keep up

Gandalfthewhite Feb 3, 2021 01:26 PM

so that is the interesting thing with AMD working with samsung on the mobile gpu it gave them the opportunity to get experience designing for their fab and build a relationship with them.

LordHawkwind Feb 3, 2021 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dennison (Post 1338265530)
you are so full of AMD hate of late :nuts:

then they get no more than the contract says and they are over that now i think
they want extra SOC's because they and everyone underestimated demand

sorry LordHawkwind says no :lol:

and who they going to go to Intel & raja :lol: :lol:

NVidia :lol: :lol: :lol: the game consoles would be 1500 bucks :lol:

Bill this has nothing to do with AMD hate. I personally own a Zen 2 3800X, my son has my old 5700XT and I also own his old RX580. So I have three times more AMD products than Nvidia. The one thing I'm disappointed with is their total lack of supply of products I wanted to buy after launch day.

This is about common business sense. Acroig and Nascar24 have told you the same but you don't want to listen. Your post comes across as a rant rather than a detailed analysis because it lacks any kind of subjective information.

Regarding your comment about the console pricing if it was Nvidia, AMD don't set the price M$ and $ony do and by all accounts they are losing money on each console sale. What you need to grasp is the consoles are not AMD products and they've signed legally binding contracts to provide a specific SoC. Come on it's not difficult really.

bill dennison Feb 3, 2021 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordHawkwind (Post 1338265882)
Bill this has nothing to do with AMD hate. I personally own a Zen 2 3800X, my son has my old 5700XT and I also own his old RX580. So I have three times more AMD products than Nvidia. The one thing I'm disappointed with is their total lack of supply of products I wanted to buy after launch day.

This is about common business sense. Acroig and Nascar24 have told you the same but you don't want to listen. Your post comes across as a rant rather than a detailed analysis because it lacks any kind of subjective information.

Regarding your comment about the console pricing if it was Nvidia, AMD don't set the price M$ and $ony do and by all accounts they are losing money on each console sale. What you need to grasp is the consoles are not AMD products and they've signed legally binding contracts to provide a specific SoC. Come on it's not difficult really.

:lol:

AMD is not losing money on new console SOC's .

Sony and M$ maybe but AMD is not if i remember right i saw that they jacked up prices on the new console SOC's over last gen PS4 and XBOX

you are saying lisa su is a idiot and has no " common business sense " and having a going out of business sale for Sony and M$ :nuts:
you are saying she is losing money on new console SOC's and not being able to make anything else is only a good way to go out of business


and she knows Sony and M$ can't or won't go to NV or Intel 14+++++++++++++ at this point


......
i have been in business since 1985 as a AC contractor and i tell customers no all the time

i am sure lisa su can tell Sony and M$ no also

LordHawkwind Feb 3, 2021 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dennison (Post 1338265898)
:lol:

AMD is not losing money on new console SOC's .

Sony and M$ maybe but AMD is not if i remember right i saw that they jacked up prices on the new console SOC's over last gen PS4 and XBOX

you are saying lisa su is a idiot and has no " common business sense " and having a going out of business sale for Sony and M$ :nuts:
you are saying she is losing money on new console SOC's and not being able to make anything else is only a good way to go out of business

and she knows Sony and M$ can't or won't go to NV or Intel 14+++++++++++++ at this point

i have been in business since 1985 as a AC contractor and i tell customers no all the time

i am sure lisa su can tell Sony and M$ no also

Bill I never said AMD make a loss on SoC sales. I said M$ and $ony make a loss on each console sold. Big difference.

https://www.techspot.com/news/88508-...station-5.html

You own your own business so you can do what you want. Lisa Su is an employee employed by shareholders and the companies board to whom she has to justify her business decisions. If they don't like her decisions they can sack her.

Bill it's a massive difference being a one man owner of your own private company and being a CEO of a publicly traded company. Why can't you grasp this simple concept? So Bill you are comparing your business decisions to the same as Lisa Su. I think she earns a bit more than you :lol: :lol:

https://www.businessinsider.com/amds...20-5?r=US&IR=T

I doubt she says no to her biggest customers. No offence just pointing out reality.

bill dennison Feb 3, 2021 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordHawkwind (Post 1338265915)
Bill I never said AMD make a loss on SoC sales. I said M$ and $ony make a loss on each console sold. Big difference.

https://www.techspot.com/news/88508-...station-5.html

You own your own business so you can do what you want. Lisa Su is an employee employed by shareholders and the companies board to whom she has to justify her business decisions. If they don't like her decisions they can sack her.

Bill it's a massive difference being a one man owner of your own private company and being a CEO of a publicly traded company. Why can't you grasp this simple concept? So Bill you are comparing your business decisions to the same as Lisa Su. I think she earns a bit more than you :lol: :lol:

https://www.businessinsider.com/amds...20-5?r=US&IR=T

I doubt she says no to her biggest customers. No offence just pointing out reality.

:nuts: :lol: :lol: :lol:

and those AMD shareholders don't care how many game consoles Sony and M$ sell

they care more about AMD's market share as that drives AMD's shock up

and they are not AMD's biggest customers that would be the pro and server market that they won't short for game consoles

LordHawkwind Feb 3, 2021 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dennison (Post 1338265921)
:nuts: :lol: :lol: :lol:

and those AMD shareholders don't care how many game consoles Sony and M$ sell

they care more about AMD's market share as that drives AMD's stock up

and they are not AMD's biggest customers that would be the pro and server market that they won't short for game consoles

Bill shareholders don't care about market share, they care about profit margins and profits. Look at Apple they have 20% market share but their profit margins are huge compared to Android manufacturers.

M$ and $ony pay upfront for console SoC orders whereas AMD has to sell CPU/GPU's to AIB's or direct if they can make enough of them. Which market would you fancy?

The Pro and server markets are biggest margin possibly but not biggest sales. They upgrade on a much slower rate than consumers so volumes are much less and easier to manage.

SuperGeil Feb 3, 2021 07:23 PM

I'm even sure why it really matters or how this pretrains to RDNA 3? Even if it was fabed at Samsung, who cares? The power hugry Nvidia cards are not using up more power because of Samsung, it's because GDDR6x is super power hugry. If anything, AMD (aka the fastest growing tech company) spreading skus to other plants like Samsung is bad for Nvidia.

With Samsung building a monster 3nm plant in Texas, and TSMC building one in Arizona... I think things will be ok and everyone is going to be happy sooner or later....

bill dennison Feb 4, 2021 02:45 PM

Quote:

AMD Shipped Almost 1 Million Ryzen 5000 CPUs in Q4, Research Firm Estimates
https://www.pcmag.com/news/amd-shipp...firm-estimates

Quote:

PlayStation 5 Sales Reached 4.5 Million in 2020, Sony Reports 20 Percent Increase in Profits
https://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/news/...i n%20Profits



Quote:

xbox series x/s total sales
3.5 million (est.) as of December 31, 2020

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_S...X_and_Series_S


so not at a loss :hmm:

and that's a lot of wafers
and more CPU's than i thought

LordHawkwind Feb 4, 2021 03:04 PM

Bill, Mercury Research ESTIMATES the total number of Zen 3 sales. They don't have a clue as AMD is saying nothing so take with massive pinch of salt. Here's more Mercury research which seems contradictory.

https://www.extremetech.com/computin...desktop-mobile

Again take with big dose of salt.

Do you not read the articles you post? This is from the one about PS4 sales..."It (Sony) is also incurring losses due to the strategic pricing of the PS5 that is said to be priced lower than its manufacturing cost." Is that not a definition of selling at a loss?

LordHawkwind Feb 4, 2021 04:19 PM

A bit more proof.

https://www.techpowerup.com/278069/s...-million-units

Gandalfthewhite Feb 8, 2021 12:57 PM

selling consoles at a loss is a meh move they dont care. it is about software sales which will drive profits. And its not a loss for AMD it is a loss for Sony and or MS.

LordHawkwind Feb 8, 2021 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gandalfthewhite (Post 1338266978)
selling consoles at a loss is a meh move they dont care. it is about software sales which will drive profits. And its not a loss for AMD it is a loss for Sony and or MS.

Exactly Gandalfthewhite but how do we explain it to Bill so he understands? Seems a losing battle ATM :lol:

EYE4LYFE Feb 18, 2021 02:37 AM

Samsung Develops Industry’s First High Bandwidth Memory with AI Processing Power

Samsung Electronics, the world leader in advanced memory technology, today announced that it has developed the industry’s first High Bandwidth Memory (HBM) integrated with artificial intelligence (AI) processing power — the HBM-PIM. The new processing-in-memory (PIM) architecture brings powerful AI computing capabilities inside high-performance memory...

Most of today’s computing systems are based on the von Neumann architecture, which uses separate processor and memory units to carry out millions of intricate data processing tasks. This sequential processing approach requires data to constantly move back and forth, resulting in a system-slowing bottleneck especially when handling ever-increasing volumes of data.

Instead, the HBM-PIM brings processing power directly to where the data is stored by placing a DRAM-optimized AI engine inside each memory bank — a storage sub-unit — enabling parallel processing and minimizing data movement. When applied to Samsung’s existing HBM2 Aquabolt solution, the new architecture is able to deliver over twice the system performance while reducing energy consumption by more than 70%. The HBM-PIM also does not require any hardware or software changes, allowing faster integration into existing systems.



SamsungNewsroom
Tom'sHardware


Destined for large-scale processing in data centers, high performance computing (HPC) systems and AI-enabled mobile applications for now, but should eventually make its way into GPUs.

This could get interesting. RDNA 3 bound?

bill dennison Feb 18, 2021 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EYE4LYFE (Post 1338269403)
Samsung Develops Industry’s First High Bandwidth Memory with AI Processing Power

Samsung Electronics, the world leader in advanced memory technology, today announced that it has developed the industry’s first High Bandwidth Memory (HBM) integrated with artificial intelligence (AI) processing power — the HBM-PIM. The new processing-in-memory (PIM) architecture brings powerful AI computing capabilities inside high-performance memory...

Most of today’s computing systems are based on the von Neumann architecture, which uses separate processor and memory units to carry out millions of intricate data processing tasks. This sequential processing approach requires data to constantly move back and forth, resulting in a system-slowing bottleneck especially when handling ever-increasing volumes of data.

Instead, the HBM-PIM brings processing power directly to where the data is stored by placing a DRAM-optimized AI engine inside each memory bank — a storage sub-unit — enabling parallel processing and minimizing data movement. When applied to Samsung’s existing HBM2 Aquabolt solution, the new architecture is able to deliver over twice the system performance while reducing energy consumption by more than 70%. The HBM-PIM also does not require any hardware or software changes, allowing faster integration into existing systems.



SamsungNewsroom
Tom'sHardware


Destined for large-scale processing in data centers, high performance computing (HPC) systems and AI-enabled mobile applications for now, but should eventually make its way into GPUs.

This could get interesting. RDNA 3 bound?

RDNA 4 maybe

RDNA 3 is most likely already on the table passed the point of adding anything

pax Feb 18, 2021 12:24 PM

Ya not just availability but cost. The 20 nm node is also very early so production will be low. But damn if this is on rdna4 itll be amazing.

LordHawkwind Feb 26, 2021 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pax (Post 1338269507)
Ya not just availability but cost. The 20 nm node is also very early so production will be low. But damn if this is on rdna4 itll be amazing.

If this is true then RDNA3 end of 2022 and RDNA4 maybe 2024? Same goes for next gen Nvidia cards. It might be a long wait if you don't buy this gen and prices will only go up sadly.

https://www.techspot.com/news/88727-...last-2022.html

pax Feb 26, 2021 09:24 PM

Well they say wafer production was increased by 40% in Dec due to demand. At some point between those who cant afford the current prices, millions are unemployed and more losing their jobs all the time at about a million a week in the US, and the satiating of consumer demand at the high end I dont see that taking a year.

I say by summer things will stabilize assuming no unusual production disruption.


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