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-   -   Quotes for hard drive storage space are starting to get out of hand (http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33916603)

Razeus Feb 19, 2008 09:51 AM

Quotes for hard drive storage space are starting to get out of hand
 
So I'm in the market for a 1 tera hard drive. After some look see, I see that it's really only ~930 gigs of real estate to use. Now, I understand why there is a difference between what's on the box and what I actually get, but seriously, we need a new way of determining space. I mean that's 70 gigs chopped off right there! That's indeed alot of space I could be using :hmm:
What's next 2 tera's only affording me 1.75 tera's (missing 250 gigs!)???



/rant over.

pixie69 Feb 19, 2008 09:54 AM

Just how big, exactly, is your porn collection? :hmm: :D

Tizen Feb 19, 2008 09:59 AM

Theres a 7% less actual space then is says on the box. Next time keep that number in mind ;)

The formula is 1-(1000^3) / (1024^3)

XSBagage Feb 19, 2008 10:01 AM

You're not losing anything.
You got 1,000,000,000,000 bytes did you not?

Razeus Feb 19, 2008 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixie69 (Post 1335359700)
Just how big, exactly, is your porn collection? :hmm: :D

not as big as magicknights. ;)

caveman-jim Feb 19, 2008 10:30 AM

Look at the General Hardware important info sticky, under 'Hard Drives'


EDIT - I thought you were good with numbers and stuff. and junk.

Idle Wild Feb 19, 2008 10:37 AM

I agree with the orig poster, does this problem apply to Flash and SSD's?

Razeus Feb 19, 2008 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caveman-jim (Post 1335359742)
Look at the General Hardware important info sticky, under 'Hard Drives'


EDIT - I thought you were good with numbers and stuff. and junk.

i am to an extent, but that doesn't mean i'm happy with the way things are being advertised as we move up into higher capacities.

Nebuchadnezzar Feb 19, 2008 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idle Wild (Post 1335359752)
I agree with the orig poster, does this problem apply to Flash and SSD's?

No.

XSBagage Feb 19, 2008 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razeus (Post 1335359754)
i am to an extent, but that doesn't mean i'm happy with the way things are being advertised as we move up into higher capacities.

You misunderstand the problem. The problem is all the stupid programs that keep clinging on to kilo-, mega-, giga-, tera-, etc byte as powers of 2. While in science these prefixes denote a power of 10.
A gigawatt is a gigawatt just like a gigabyte is a gigabyte. You are getting what is advertised, that is 10^12 bytes.

phial Feb 19, 2008 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XSBagage (Post 1335359824)
You misunderstand the problem. The problem is all the stupid programs that keep clinging on to kilo-, mega-, giga-, tera-, etc byte as powers of 2.

the prefixes arent different, its just a matter of bits vs bytes.

Tizen Feb 19, 2008 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XSBagage (Post 1335359824)
You misunderstand the problem. The problem is all the stupid programs that keep clinging on to kilo-, mega-, giga-, tera-, etc byte as powers of 2. While in science these prefixes denote a power of 10.
A gigawatt is a gigawatt just like a gigabyte is a gigabyte. You are getting what is advertised, that is 10^12 bytes.

Lmao, you have no idea why its to the power of 2 huh? It's more of a hardware issue :bleh:

Djinn Feb 19, 2008 11:31 AM

I vaguely recall reading that all hard drive manufactures are required to indicate the actual formatted capacity on the packaging.

Firestorm_ATI Feb 19, 2008 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XSBagage (Post 1335359824)
You misunderstand the problem. The problem is all the stupid programs that keep clinging on to kilo-, mega-, giga-, tera-, etc byte as powers of 2. While in science these prefixes denote a power of 10.

Yeah, these stupid programs! Powers of 2?? I mean, you'd think that computers operated in binary or something. :nuts:

Ryoko Feb 19, 2008 11:50 AM

except for the fact that kilo means thousand, mega means million, giga means billion, and tera means trillion. computers aren't exempt. if i'm in the market for a 1TB hard drive, should i expect anything other than 1 trillion bytes?

Tizen Feb 19, 2008 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryoko (Post 1335359861)
except for the fact that kilo means thousand, mega means million, giga means billion, and tera means trillion. computers aren't exempt. if i'm in the market for a 1TB hard drive, should i expect anything other than 1 trillion bytes?


kilo = 1000 in a base 10 system :bleh:

XSBagage Feb 19, 2008 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tisti (Post 1335359841)
Lmao, you have no idea why its to the power of 2 huh?

Enlighten me :)
Quote:

It's more of a hardware issue :bleh:
Depends on what issue you're talking about exactly.
I'm on about consumers getting confused and thinking they somehow lost disk space.

XSBagage Feb 19, 2008 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phial (Post 1335359836)
the prefixes arent different, its just a matter of bits vs bytes.

Care to elaborate?

Ryoko Feb 19, 2008 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tisti (Post 1335359864)
kilo = 1000 in a base 10 system :bleh:

binary = bits

base 10 = bytes.

if bytes were base 2, then kilo would be 8 ;)

Tizen Feb 19, 2008 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryoko (Post 1335359869)
binary = bits

base 10 = bytes.

if bytes were base 2, then kilo would be 8 ;)

What the hell?

1 byte = 8 bits

Edit:
Must say, I like this thread :D

XSBagage Feb 19, 2008 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firestorm_ATI (Post 1335359857)
Yeah, these stupid programs! Powers of 2?? I mean, you'd think that computers operated in binary or something. :nuts:

Are you a computer? I'm a lot more comfortable with powers of 10 compared to powers of 2.
I got a terabyte drive, I got 1,000,000,000,000 bytes, easy.
I got a terabyte drive, I got 1024*1024*1024*1024 bytes errrr ah yes 1099511627776 bytes. Now there's an easy number.

There is no added value in using powers of 2 to represent file size or disk sizes, so why use it?

Ryoko Feb 19, 2008 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XSBagage (Post 1335359871)
Are you a computer? I'm a lot more comfortable with powers of 10 compared to powers of 2.
I got a terabyte drive, I got 1,000,000,000,000 bytes, easy.
I got a terabyte drive, I got 1024*1024*1024*1024 bytes errrr ah yes 1099511627776 bytes. Now there's an easy number.

There is no added value in using powers of 2 to represent file size or disk sizes, so why use it?

because microsoft uses it ;)

we all know how standard microsoft is :)

seeker010 Feb 19, 2008 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XSBagage (Post 1335359871)
Are you a computer? I'm a lot more comfortable with powers of 10 compared to powers of 2.
I got a terabyte drive, I got 1,000,000,000,000 bytes, easy.
I got a terabyte drive, I got 1024*1024*1024*1024 bytes errrr ah yes 1099511627776 bytes. Now there's an easy number.

There is no added value in using powers of 2 to represent file size or disk sizes, so why use it?

NIST and IEEE 1541: powers of two = first 2 letters closest SI designation + bi.
kilo, Mega, Giga, Tera = 10^3, 10^6, 10^9, and 10^12
Kibi, Mebi, Gibi, Tebi= 2^10, 2^20, 2^30, and 2^40 respectively

1 terabtye=1x10^12 bytes
1 tebibyte=1x2^40 bytes

kilo, Mega, Giga, Tera, etc are SI prefices that unambiguously refer to powers of 10. Any other assumed definition are completely nonstandard, and used only in colloquial speech.

get it?

MaxSt Feb 19, 2008 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tisti (Post 1335359709)
Theres a 7% less actual space then is says on the box. Next time keep that number in mind ;)

The formula is 1-(1000^3) / (1024^3)

right, but power of 3 is for giga. for tera you should use power of 4. that would be 10%.

Tizen Feb 19, 2008 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XSBagage (Post 1335359865)
Enlighten me :)

Depends on what issue you're talking about exactly.
I'm on about consumers getting confused and thinking they somehow lost disk space.

Meh, someone else has done the enlightening...

Consumers confused? So what? I don't see a lot of complaning about it tbh :bleh:

XSBagage Feb 19, 2008 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XSBagage (Post 1335359824)
You misunderstand the problem. The problem is all the stupid programs that keep clinging on to kilo-, mega-, giga-, tera-, etc byte as powers of 2. While in science these prefixes denote a power of 10.
A gigawatt is a gigawatt just like a gigabyte is a gigabyte. You are getting what is advertised, that is 10^12 bytes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeker010 (Post 1335359874)
NIST and IEEE 1541: powers of two = first 2 letters closest SI designation + bi.
kilo, Mega, Giga, Tera = 10^3, 10^6, 10^9, and 10^12
Kibi, Mebi, Gibi, Tebi= 2^10, 2^20, 2^30, and 2^40 respectively

1 terabtye=1x10^12 bytes
1 tebibyte=1x2^40 bytes

kilo, Mega, Giga, Tera, etc are SI prefices that unambiguously refer to powers of 10. Any other assumed definition are completely nonstandard, and used only in colloquial speech.

get it?

Obviously I do not. :hmm:

I do not bring up the kibi, mebi etc stuff because that only confuses people more. It isn't used by microsoft so try telling people it's that way when their computer tells them otherwise. First you have to establish that the computer is wrong, before you bring up the kibis and mebis :bleh:
We already have Ryoko on board, he brought up M$.

XSBagage Feb 19, 2008 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tisti (Post 1335359882)
Consumers confused? So what? I don't see a lot of complaning about it tbh :bleh:

:lol: Did you read the OP? :p

Tizen Feb 19, 2008 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxSt (Post 1335359880)
right, but power of 3 is for giga. for tera you should use power of 4. that would be 10%.

Ah, indeed it is. I guess Razeus is lucky that the drive manufacturers didn't take that into consideration. He would have a 900GB drive right now if they did :lol:


Quote:

Originally Posted by XSBagage (Post 1335359884)
:lol: Did you read the OP? :p

It's a drop in the ocean :p

caveman-jim Feb 19, 2008 12:16 PM

some of you guys didn't notice it, but seeker ended the thread a little while ago. ;)*

pixie69 Feb 19, 2008 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caveman-jim (Post 1335359742)
Look at the General Hardware important info sticky, under 'Hard Drives'


EDIT - I thought you were good with numbers and stuff. and junk.


He's a finance guy, stick a dollar sign in front of the numbers and he'd be fine.


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