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Old Mar 27, 2019, 04:48 PM   #1
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Default Hellcat out, Mustang in

Short story long, I blew my Hellcat motor and had it rebuilt.

Spent about 7k total. Reason is because I went upper pulley and the tuner I was using decided my pistons weren't worth it. So I cracked 3, melted the spark plugs, and scorched the cylinder walls pretty good. All because I wanted 900whp, which is actually a very common setup on the Hellcat platform, but that means didly squat if the tuner doesn't care.

Anyways built the motor and got it back, much stronger than OEM. Switched tuners as well, this time went with one of the most top rated tuners for the Hellcat platform. Costs 2-3 as much as regular tuners.

Got the tune down and I felt the rush of 900whp for all of one day. Turns out now the transmission is going. Took that apart and the gear oil was burnt, and 3rd gear was pretty much toast. Now, this wasn't the fault of the new tuner, it was a carryover from the old one. The old tuner didn't retain the safety parameters in place when doing the transmission tune. These transmissions are doing 1000whp and over and holding, but mine didnt because of the tuner didn't think my transmission life was worth it.

So the plan was to replace it with a Demon transmission, which is just the regular ZF HP90 transmission on the Hellcats but with a demon torque converter.

Then I started noticing boost issues. If it was the supercharger, that would be another 6k for a new one.

Decided I had enough.


Bought a base Mustang GT 10 speed automatic with Performance Package 1.

Will be throwing a Whipple on there in a few weeks and calling it a day. Easy 9's at 145+.

I still need a 4 door so I will be revisting the Charger Hellcat platform, except I'm gonna wait until the widebody redeye version is out.





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Old Mar 27, 2019, 06:08 PM   #2
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Good looking Mustang man. Love the black on black.
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Old Mar 28, 2019, 06:20 AM   #3
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Those are lots of power for only rear wheel drive. Sit and spin times.

Ever think of going light and fun instead?
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Old Mar 28, 2019, 07:30 AM   #4
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Send that beauty down to Justin @ VMP and get one of their Gen3 blowers.
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Old Mar 28, 2019, 07:35 AM   #5
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Good looking Mustang man. Love the black on black.
I just put in black tinted windows, looks even more blacked out now.

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Those are lots of power for only rear wheel drive. Sit and spin times.

Ever think of going light and fun instead?
Well once the whipple is on I'm gonna put on 305 Mickey Thompson ET Streets as well. With RWD once you go over a certain power level drag radials become a must. With the whipple it's going to put down over 700whp, that in itself will be fun on the road, at least the way I tend to drive.
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Old Mar 28, 2019, 07:42 AM   #6
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Send that beauty down to Justin @ VMP and get one of their Gen3 blowers.
I was looking at the new Gen 5's specifically for the 2018+ Mustangs. VMP is good but i'd likely stick with the canned whippled tune for now for warranty purposes on the powertrain.
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Old Mar 28, 2019, 08:44 AM   #7
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Old Mar 29, 2019, 07:13 AM   #8
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Ouch. Bummer about the bad luck. The 900whp mark is still tough for a lot of cars today to run reliably. With a good tuner and driving it right, a lot of them can last longer, but it's definitely a gamble and a game of chances.

A C5Z can be made to run 750-800rwhp with not a ton of money put into it, and do it reliably. Once you get over that, you run into the same issues and it's a maintenance nightmare.

The Mustang is a great choice for big power. One of the few platforms with an absurdly overbuilt motor ready for amazing things. Looking forward to seeing what you do with it!
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Old Mar 29, 2019, 08:53 AM   #9
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Ouch. Bummer about the bad luck. The 900whp mark is still tough for a lot of cars today to run reliably. With a good tuner and driving it right, a lot of them can last longer, but it's definitely a gamble and a game of chances.

A C5Z can be made to run 750-800rwhp with not a ton of money put into it, and do it reliably. Once you get over that, you run into the same issues and it's a maintenance nightmare.

The Mustang is a great choice for big power. One of the few platforms with an absurdly overbuilt motor ready for amazing things. Looking forward to seeing what you do with it!
Yup, everything is a gamble. I'm just annoyed the worst case scenario fell to me, while countless other Hellcat owners are running 900whp+ on stock everything with just pulley/fuel upgrade without issue. It just goes to show a car is only as "bulletproof" as the tuner behind it.

I came close to just buying another Charger Hellcat and starting over because I loved my Charger, then I just decided to wait until the refresh in 2021. The refresh with a widebody and either the Redeye or Helephant motor.

So this Mustang is just a 3 year car at most for me. I'm seeing the 10 speed automatics are making over 500whp and running 10's with some minor bolt ons and E85. If I wasn't so tempted by the simple bolt and go Whipple package that retains the powertrain warranty, I'd probably go the NA route.
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Old Mar 29, 2019, 10:59 AM   #10
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The tuner will definitely make or break the deal, without a doubt.
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Old Mar 29, 2019, 01:39 PM   #11
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The tuner will definitely make or break the deal, without a doubt.
Absolutely. I remember having the TCSS cobie tuned the tuner who was at the time, one of the best and he had a thing about not going above 24 PSI due to ring float. He'd do pretty much anything but he physically would not ever tune the stock system over 24 psi because he knew what would happen. He'd tell you to find another tuner.
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Old Apr 4, 2019, 03:31 PM   #12
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The tuner will definitely make or break the deal, without a doubt.
Something Automatic guys have to consider these days is not only ECU/PCM tuning, bu trans tuning. There are many shops out there who are know as good ECU tuners, but have a terrible rep for trans tuning with newer transmissions (6 spd GM's, 6spd Ford's, 8spd GM's, 10spd GM/Ford).
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Old Apr 4, 2019, 03:38 PM   #13
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Yup, everything is a gamble. I'm just annoyed the worst case scenario fell to me, while countless other Hellcat owners are running 900whp+ on stock everything with just pulley/fuel upgrade without issue. It just goes to show a car is only as "bulletproof" as the tuner behind it.

I came close to just buying another Charger Hellcat and starting over because I loved my Charger, then I just decided to wait until the refresh in 2021. The refresh with a widebody and either the Redeye or Helephant motor.

So this Mustang is just a 3 year car at most for me. I'm seeing the 10 speed automatics are making over 500whp and running 10's with some minor bolt ons and E85. If I wasn't so tempted by the simple bolt and go Whipple package that retains the powertrain warranty, I'd probably go the NA route.
Sorry to hear about the Hellcat but that's a sweet Stang you got yourself.
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Old Apr 8, 2019, 08:15 AM   #14
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Love the Ford, sorry about your last science project.

My new angle -- leave things stock but hey, to each their own.
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Old Apr 8, 2019, 10:17 AM   #15
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Thanks fellas,

Leaving it stock and just going plain E85 (requires a tune) is also an option. I was never really a Mustang guy before, but I can't deny they're really cheap and a great platform to mod with. The S550 engine is already stout enough to begin with, enough for a power train warrantied supercharged option, and the 10 speed is a game changer.

It's funny how I hated on Mustangs before and here I am driving one.
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Old Apr 10, 2019, 12:18 PM   #16
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Love the Ford, sorry about your last science project.

My new angle -- leave things stock but hey, to each their own.
I would have certainly done that for the Hellcat. What, 700hp isn't enough? Jesus...

Maybe I am just getting old, but even when I had my 2015 Mustang GT Premium I thought it had enough power (at least for a daily driver). If it was something you are tracking (and probably should then just have 2 cars) I could understand.

What does 900hp offer you on the street that 700 doesn't besides bragging rights and a bit of dick waving?
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Old Apr 10, 2019, 01:13 PM   #17
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I would have certainly done that for the Hellcat. What, 700hp isn't enough? Jesus...

Maybe I am just getting old, but even when I had my 2015 Mustang GT Premium I thought it had enough power (at least for a daily driver). If it was something you are tracking (and probably should then just have 2 cars) I could understand.

What does 900hp offer you on the street that 700 doesn't besides bragging rights and a bit of dick waving?
Exposed races his cars on the street + drag strip, IIRC.
200+ extra HP can mean the difference between winning or losing the race.
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Old Apr 10, 2019, 02:32 PM   #18
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Exposed races his cars on the street + drag strip, IIRC.
200+ extra HP can mean the difference between winning or losing the race.
Yeah but the torque determines how far you move the wall
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Old Apr 10, 2019, 02:51 PM   #19
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What does 900hp offer you on the street that 700 doesn't besides bragging rights and a bit of dick waving?
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Old Apr 10, 2019, 06:00 PM   #20
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Exposed races his cars on the street + drag strip, IIRC.
200+ extra HP can mean the difference between winning or losing the race.
Agreed.

if the car never leaves the street, I don't agree, but...Mine is right at about 750hp (put down 650rwhp) and I'm also looking for more. I'd like to get as close to 800rwhp as possible, which is pushing around 950hp. When you run 1mile, 1/2 mile, and 1/4 mile...there really isn't too much power. The only wall is your bank account or how much you're willing to throw at it.
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Old Apr 10, 2019, 11:16 PM   #21
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Agreed.

if the car never leaves the street, I don't agree, but...Mine is right at about 750hp (put down 650rwhp) and I'm also looking for more. I'd like to get as close to 800rwhp as possible, which is pushing around 950hp. When you run 1mile, 1/2 mile, and 1/4 mile...there really isn't too much power. The only wall is your bank account or how much you're willing to throw at it.

For a track car, sure. Maybe I don't read enough of OP's posts but this sounds like a daily driver with the added benefit of racing/taking to the track (I mean he eventually wants a four door vehicle due to this).

It just seems to me that the mindset present within the initial post (spending a ton of money, things breaking, rinse repeat and then being fed up with the process enough that they got an entirely different car) doesn't necessarily agree with the attitude you have to have for a track vehicle.

Maybe am not presenting this the best way, but hopefully it makes sense what I am saying. IMO my suggestion would be to have a fast, fun, and reliable DD and then the balls to the wall track car on top of that (with the mindset that you may break stuff and it might be expensive).

That's just my opinion though.
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Old Apr 11, 2019, 11:20 PM   #22
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I don't want a "balls to the wall" track car because it's not needed these days. These days you can have your cake and eat it too.

You start with a quick car to begin with and add basic bolt ons. Nothing more. The mods on the Hellcat were just that, bolt ons. It was literally just a pulley swap and injector upgrade. There was absolutely no reason for the motor to go other than tuner carelessness (which is always a risk), considering the number of Hellcats out there with far more mods pushing 1000+hp without issue.

Now, I will get another Charger Hellcat. Not anytime soon though, because I want that new widebody model with 797 hp (if it's the redeye motor). If it's the 850hp variant with the 426 motor, then even better because that would satisify my 4 door daily driving and weekend racing needs all in one without me having to do anything additional.

The Mustang I'll keep NA for now because these things are running 10's with just E85, intake, and headers. I wouldn't call that "balls to the walls". If I have an itch to go 9's, then I would purchase a supercharger kit, which is still technically a complete bolt on kit that will retain the powertrain warranty (albeit through the supercharger company like Roush).

I don't want the typical project car where you turn wrenches on it every weekend and open the motor, go above and beyond the basics, etc.. and then drive something you really don't want to drive for a daily driver during the week.

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Old Apr 11, 2019, 11:40 PM   #23
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Both of you make great points. It's nice to have one car that can do it all. On the other hand, it's accepting quite a lot of risk to do that to a car you rely on for regular transportation.

That was one thing that kept bugging me about tracking the BRZ and the whole reason I picked up a cheap XTerra.
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 06:08 AM   #24
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850hp daily driver seems like an oxymoron.
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 08:14 AM   #25
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850hp daily driver seems like an oxymoron.
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 08:54 AM   #26
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I think some people are still stuck in the past. It's 2019, and you can have a perfectly civilized car that can easily be daily driven. The power is just a number any more, and has no affect on drivability. I do agree that it's silly to have a car with crazy power as a daily and then never actually use it. That's just a darn shame and kind of pointless.

The video above is pretty entertaining and dramatic, but highly exaggerated. Sure, they're fast when you get into it...but they're perfectly civilized otherwise and nothing to be afraid of just cruising around. Like most things, people are just afraid of things they don't understand or have no experience with. Big power is almost the norm now, and you can daily drive them with no issues or fanfare.
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 10:53 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by OverclockN' View Post
I think some people are still stuck in the past. It's 2019, and you can have a perfectly civilized car that can easily be daily driven. The power is just a number any more, and has no affect on drivability. I do agree that it's silly to have a car with crazy power as a daily and then never actually use it. That's just a darn shame and kind of pointless.

The video above is pretty entertaining and dramatic, but highly exaggerated. Sure, they're fast when you get into it...but they're perfectly civilized otherwise and nothing to be afraid of just cruising around. Like most things, people are just afraid of things they don't understand or have no experience with. Big power is almost the norm now, and you can daily drive them with no issues or fanfare.
Exactly, and the way the power is delivered is alot more smoother these days.

When I first got the Hellcat, it didn't "feel" that much faster than the Challenger SRT I had before it, which was 485p. It seems strange but in the beginning it was hard for me to believe it was 200+hp more, but numbers don't lie. I was trapping 126 bone stock in the Hellcat compared to 114 in the Challenger, so the power was there, it just didn't have that noticeable "feeling" that older modified cars had because they were so unrefined.
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Old Apr 12, 2019, 06:49 PM   #28
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When I first got the Hellcat, it didn't "feel" that much faster than the Challenger SRT I had before it, which was 485p. It seems strange but in the beginning it was hard for me to believe it was 200+hp more, but numbers don't lie. I was trapping 126 bone stock in the Hellcat compared to 114 in the Challenger, so the power was there, it just didn't have that noticeable "feeling" that older modified cars had because they were so unrefined.
Going from 400hp and adding 250hp with the supercharger was a huge difference for me. I won't forget picking it up for the first time and following a buddy immediately after leaving the shop. I was rolling about 15-20mph and hit it like I normally would and lit up the tires for a second until I let off in shock.

You do get use to it fast though, and doesn't feel "fast" any more. I have a mental block with my right foot, and rarely ever break traction now (I hate spinning tires ). Only when I go to the 1/2 mile events am I reminded of how fast the thing can be. Lining up with 500hp cars and they are a spec in the rearview by the time the 1/2 mile mark is up.

The car is loud (by choice), but still rides smooth enough and drives just fine. Anyone who drives it is surprised how docile it is just tooling around. These are good times to be a car guy.
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Old Apr 13, 2019, 01:26 PM   #29
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Cars that run 10s or better any more do it with a lot less drama than it used to take. For a lot of reasons, they don't feel as fast as they are.

Sorry to hear about the issues with the hellcat. Going for the more well known tuners is probably money well spent once you've already dumped a buttload into the car.

As someone pointed out it is hard to get 600+ to hook on the street from anything but a roll in a small tire car. My experience was similar once I got the vmp kit installed, blew the tires off in 2nd gear from a roll, and I knew at that moment this was finally some significant power. And that was on a drag radial lol.

Congrats on the car, what do you mean by it being a 3 year car for you? Already planning on selling? lol

PS: The gen1 coyote w/vmp tvs I have now ran a 10.8 vs. a stock hellcat 11.2. Can't remember the traps, but the coyote out trapped it too.
PSS: The MT ET Street R is a good tire and have a set on welds. Will hold around 600 from a 2nd gear roll on warm clean pavement. Sometimes still spins on a hard downshift though haha
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Old Apr 13, 2019, 03:10 PM   #30
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As someone pointed out it is hard to get 600+ to hook on the street from anything but a roll in a small tire car. My experience was similar once I got the vmp kit installed, blew the tires off in 2nd gear from a roll, and I knew at that moment this was finally some significant power. And that was on a drag radial lol.

PS: The gen1 coyote w/vmp tvs I have now ran a 10.8 vs. a stock hellcat 11.2. Can't remember the traps, but the coyote out trapped it too.
PSS: The MT ET Street R is a good tire and have a set on welds. Will hold around 600 from a 2nd gear roll on warm clean pavement. Sometimes still spins on a hard downshift though haha
I don't have much problem putting down 650rwhp on the street with road racing R-Comps. I just need to give it a brief moment for the suspension to load up and it grabs no problem. It will always spin if I just instantly mash my foot to the floor. Here's a good example of one of my better launches. Cold tires (I dont do burnouts and had to wait for the other guy to do his), and an unprepped bumpy airport runway. It spins slightly in 1st, then hooked.

If you just want to instantly mash your foot the floor, then you're right. I like to let the suspension work and give the tires a chance, plus it's easier on the drivetrain if it does hook.



Those new Mustangs are beasts. There are bunch of them really putting up a challenge now at the events as more people catch on.
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