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Old Mar 10, 2021, 12:11 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by acroig View Post
Thanks, will keep a close eye on this.

Will a z490 board work with 11th gen or is z590 required?
Look for a board with excellent VRMs.... 11th gen is a power hog, especially with AVX-512, and add a high end cooler too.
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Old Mar 10, 2021, 12:18 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by 12Bass View Post
Look for a board with excellent VRMs.... 11th gen is a power hog, especially with AVX-512, and add a high end cooler too.
Leaning toward MSI z490 Tomahawk at this time.
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Old Mar 10, 2021, 12:47 PM   #213
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I am also skeptical you'll see meaningful CPU limitations at 4K even with a 4080. You can always find a few weird outliers, but for most circumstances I don't think it's going to happen.

Also you have to consider that most high end CPUs can now put out over 100 FPS in games, so you also have to ask yourself whether it matters if you're CPU limited at 150 FPS. Like do you really care? At some point it becomes irrelevant. Even Ryzen 3000 was really "fast enough for gaming".
Most people I know want 4k 120 FPS. I've been playing Doom at this level and it's great. Cyberpunk has a 90FPS CPU limitation at 1440P and it's not going to magically disappear at 4k. The only way we won't run into that 90FPS CPU limitation at 4k is if Nvidia fails to deliver a 30 FPS performance increase over the next 4 years (during the lifetime of a system and two GPU cycles.) The 3090 is already averaging 60 and I suspect the 4080 will break 90FPS by itself at 4k in a couple years. SO it's pretty much impossible that we won't see a CPU limit on the current 5900X by the time the 5000 series is out at the end of the 4 year life span at 4k. This isn't a theory or an educated guess, it's a fact. Now maybe Nvidia will fail to deliver a 30% performance increase over 4 years but it's not likely. Even on bad card launches they average 20% so we will certainly see a 40% increase in FPS over 4 years. The 3090 gained between 40% and 50% over one generation for example.

I'm done with this though. I think everyone knows I'm correct and some people on here just don't like me for being blunt to clueless people who refuse to learn. I'll let those people remain ignorant and suffer the consequences they deserve for a lifetime. I'm going to leave my opinion to try and help people when I can but I'm not going to reply towards people who can't read or misinterpret data on a regular basis. It's too time consuming and they usually refuse to improve themselves even when they are slapped in the face with the truth. I also find it grating that we are asked to get along with and act civil towards trolls. Back when this place was great we didn't tolerate stupidity. Facts were facts. Accepting and tolerating trolls and ignorance is a step in the wrong direction for any community. It shouldn't matter how civil it appears, it's cancer to the community.
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Old Mar 10, 2021, 12:54 PM   #214
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I'm done with this though. I think everyone knows I'm correct and some people on here just don't like me for being blunt to clueless people who refuse to learn. I'll let those people remain ignorant and suffer the consequences they deserve for a lifetime. I'm going to leave my opinion to try and help people when I can but I'm not going to reply towards people who can't read or misinterpret data on a regular basis. It's too time consuming and they usually refuse to improve themselves even when they are slapped in the face with the truth. I also find it grating that we are asked to get along with and act civil towards trolls. Back when this place was great we didn't tolerate stupidity. Facts were facts. Accepting and tolerating trolls and ignorance is a step in the wrong direction for any community. It shouldn't matter how civil it appears, it's cancer to the community.
Well that's a matter of opinion and we disagree as to who is and is not a troll. No one here has said anything that is remotely stupid and this kind of comment is why people turn on you.

Feel free to start putting people on ignore which you consider are beneath you but if you continue spouting stuff like this you won't last long here.

We're clear?
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Old Mar 10, 2021, 01:01 PM   #215
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So a guy comes into the Intel thread and ignores the fact that you said you don't care about extra cores and proceeds to recommend slower AMD CPU with high core counts for no reason other than brand loyalty or an intentional swipe at me because he dislikes me. Just like your thread where you asked for recommendations he deliberately calls me out and baits me. I of course set him straight without being rude but it gets old. That doesn't set off your troll meter?
No, it does not as the hardware he's recommending is quite good. In no way does that qualify as stupid, it's another choice.

Just because someone disagrees with your choices it does not make them a troll. I told you I saw both sides of the argument but you tend to carry things to extremes EVERY TIME.
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Old Mar 10, 2021, 02:58 PM   #216
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Well enjoy a community of clueless trolls then. It's no wonder this place is all but dried up these days. Just like the 2077 thread. Nobody wants to be around clueless people who are unwilling to learn or the morons that stand up for them. Bye Bye.
Hey man enough of the garbage. Tone it down big time or let the door hit you on your way out for all i care. There no need to be so angry all the time.
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Old Mar 10, 2021, 02:58 PM   #217
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You can run the 11 series on a Z490. Some boards will even do PCIE4.0. I'm not sure if there's any official support yet but I believe the MSI boards all have everything needed to support PCIE4.0 support once you drop a compliant chip in.

Rebar support is good on all Z490 and I believe everyone has released BIOS updates to comply; I know both ASUS and MSI had updates out as early as December 2020.

The Tomahawk has excellent VRMs and build quality. You might want to do some googling to confirm it can give you PCIE4.0 lanes off the PCH.
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Old Mar 10, 2021, 03:02 PM   #218
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The Tomahawk has excellent VRMs and build quality. You might want to do some googling to confirm it can give you PCIE4.0 lanes off the PCH.
Will do, thanks bud.

EDIT:

https://www.techradar.com/news/msi-z...ew-bios-update
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Old Mar 10, 2021, 03:10 PM   #219
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Though it bears repeating that such an upgrade won't amount to much improvement in real-world gaming performance, making it more of an itch that wants to be scratched than a well justified upgrade, IMO.
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Old Mar 10, 2021, 03:12 PM   #220
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Though it bears repeating that such an upgrade won't amount to much improvement in real-world gaming performance, making it more of an itch that wants to be scratched than a well justified upgrade, IMO.
I know.... I cannot refute that, everyone has said so.
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Old Mar 10, 2021, 04:54 PM   #221
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If that MSFS2020 performance uplift is legit that's pretty decent. Would amount to an almost 20% gain from 10700k. I'll likely jump on the i9.
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Old Mar 10, 2021, 09:32 PM   #222
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That was a heck of debate but how can anyone think they will be cpu bound at 4k anytime soon when current cpus run hundreds of fps, 400-500 fps at 720p to make sure there are no gpus limitations?

Might be a couple games maybe but generally I expect optimizations to clear out any such cpu limitations if only because most people have slower cpus and devs want their games to run on most systems.
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Old Mar 10, 2021, 11:03 PM   #223
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Generally PC only titles or sims are the only CPU bound games these days, which is pretty much all I play with the odd exception.

I am currently CPU bound at 3840x1600 and/or 4k in MSFS2020, Hell Let Loose, ArmA2/3, Total War, so for me it should be a noticeable upgrade.

I'd like to see what highly tuned memory can do for the added cache latencies of this architecture too. I suspect much like Ryzen, there are significant gains to be had.
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Old Mar 10, 2021, 11:10 PM   #224
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Generally PC only titles or sims are the only CPU bound games these days, which is pretty much all I play with the odd exception.

I am currently CPU bound at 3840x1600 and/or 4k in MSFS2020, Hell Let Loose, ArmA2/3, Total War, so for me it should be a noticeable upgrade.

I'd like to see what highly tuned memory can do for the added cache latencies of this architecture too. I suspect much like Ryzen, there are significant gains to be had.
That Anandtech review gave me the impression that 11th gen isn't likely to surpass Ryzen 5000 in gaming, unless perhaps it involves a game that leverages a special instruction that Intel happens to process faster. Could see some advantages in certain productivity scenarios, however....
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Old Mar 10, 2021, 11:17 PM   #225
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It certainly doesn't look great in Anands review but the more recent slides posted by acroig make me far more optimistic:

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Not saying I don't believe Anandtech, I totally believe their results are correct, but that was conducted without shipping BIOS or updated microcode.
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Old Mar 11, 2021, 12:34 AM   #226
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Think I may do an Intel build in the near future.
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Old Mar 11, 2021, 07:43 AM   #227
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Think I may do an Intel build in the near future.
Of this I have no doubts.....
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Old Mar 11, 2021, 05:21 PM   #228
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Think I may do an Intel build in the near future.
You're crazy. There won't be any noteworthy difference between the two. Perhaps a couple % either way depending on the app.
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Old Mar 11, 2021, 05:30 PM   #229
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Some pointed out the fine print on intels slide states i7 and lower are actually limited to gear 1:2 mode with memory over 2933mhz... speculation is artificial segmentation to make i9 look like better. Probably some truth to it, but of course, i9 just have better binned IMC too.


Read footnote 3 on intel slide...


https://twitter.com/9550pro/status/1...763011/photo/1
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Old Mar 11, 2021, 09:51 PM   #230
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Thought Intel didn’t need 1:1 to be effective.
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Old Mar 11, 2021, 10:06 PM   #231
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New architecture is much more like Ryzen in that regard.
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Old Mar 12, 2021, 02:31 AM   #232
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Some pointed out the fine print on intels slide states i7 and lower are actually limited to gear 1:2 mode with memory over 2933mhz... speculation is artificial segmentation to make i9 look like better. Probably some truth to it, but of course, i9 just have better binned IMC too.


Read footnote 3 on intel slide...


https://twitter.com/9550pro/status/1...763011/photo/1
If it's the same as Gear Down Mode on Ryzen then it shouldn't have more than 0.5% to 1% impact on performance, since it allows you to tighten the other timings more to compensate while remaining stable.

In terms of achievable performance (after manual memory tweaking) I don't think that should result in a big performance difference, but it will probably look bigger in reviews since the reviewers will just run XMP and won't tighten any of the other timings to compensate. (To be fair that will reflect the average buyer's experience too.)

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Old Mar 12, 2021, 07:43 AM   #233
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Old Mar 12, 2021, 04:14 PM   #234
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If it's the same as Gear Down Mode on Ryzen then it shouldn't have more than 0.5% to 1% impact on performance, since it allows you to tighten the other timings more to compensate while remaining stable.

In terms of achievable performance (after manual memory tweaking) I don't think that should result in a big performance difference, but it will probably look bigger in reviews since the reviewers will just run XMP and won't tighten any of the other timings to compensate. (To be fair that will reflect the average buyer's experience too.)
The performance difference probably isn't huge, it just seems a bit misleading by intel to claim 3200mhz support on the i7 only for them to limit it to gear 1:2 mode. Looks like artificial segmentation to give the i9 a slight boost over i7 in benchmarks.
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Old Mar 12, 2021, 04:33 PM   #235
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I know.... I cannot refute that, everyone has said so.
You may get something with the rebar support on select games. Was there going to be rebar support on your current board?
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Old Mar 12, 2021, 04:47 PM   #236
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The performance difference probably isn't huge, it just seems a bit misleading by intel to claim 3200mhz support on the i7 only for them to limit it to gear 1:2 mode. Looks like artificial segmentation to give the i9 a slight boost over i7 in benchmarks.
They had to do something after making the 11700 and 11900K the same core count. Binning alone isn't enough for that price differential.
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Old Mar 12, 2021, 05:06 PM   #237
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You may get something with the rebar support on select games. Was there going to be rebar support on your current board?
No, too old.
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Old Mar 12, 2021, 09:11 PM   #238
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Which Z590 board should I pick up? Trying to see if there is a Tomahawk but can’t locate even it’s webpage. Other options are Strix E and TUF. Thinking a TUF should be ENUF.

Wow both Strix and TUF not available. Only Gigabyte Aorus Ultra seems to be in decent price range.

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Old Mar 12, 2021, 09:26 PM   #239
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Which Z590 board should I pick up? Trying to see if there is a Tomahawk but can’t locate even it’s webpage. Other options are Strix E and TUF. Thinking a TUF should be ENUF.

Wow both Strix and TUF not available. Only Gigabyte Aorus Ultra seems to be in decent price range.
You should get neither as your PC will suck either way.
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Old Mar 12, 2021, 09:26 PM   #240
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Why Z590 over Z490?
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