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Old Jan 14, 2005, 03:29 PM   #1
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Universaluv
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Default PC's...a dead platform for gaming?????

This is a long one. And I had it in the wrong place first so I moved it here. Hope it works out...

I start to think about computer gaming and I think about all the different styles of play, the many peripherals you can connect, the abillity to download add ons, updates and patches. The online gaming systems, multiplayer. Ability to change code, make mods, change files. Network for Lan's so on and so on.

I've played so many different types of games from RTS, First Person Shooters, Online Multiplayer, to turn based strategy, role playing and simulation. Just to name a few.

But I fear this is all slowly coming to an end. Why, do you ask? I think we should take a careful look at some trends here. Something I think many of us have noticed.

I could write 20 pages on this but I won't. I'll just post my top ten reasons and why. In random order.

10. Money...writing a game for a console is cheaper, quicker and easier. For the most part.

9. Televisions....HDTV, Plasma and so on are bringing monitor quality video to console systems.

8. Knowledge....pc's are complex and can be difficult to work with...consoles have an on/off switch..

7. Copy Right Protection....I won't touch this one...just think about it.

6. Bulky, Noisy, not portable... Self explanitary

5. Activation.... Everything you put on a pc now-a-days has to be activated. When's the last time an Xbox owner put in a key code ?

4. Unfinished games... Poor game quality out of the box needed patchs to fix, make stable, compatible and so.

3. Consoles... They can compete,, and are. ( Explain Later )

2. Users..... Let's face it. Action is the name of the game in sales, and most action title's can easily go to other platforms. So what we the User are buying changes what gets sold and becomes available.

1. Costs... Want a new video card...ok..you'll pay 500+ for top of the line. Or you could have bought three or four ps2's or xbox's. Not to mention the rest of the pc's parts.

Just some food for thought. Later on I'll do one on why pc gaming will survive. That one will be interesting. Thanks....give some feedback...nicely though
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 03:32 PM   #2
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There are some people who just want to play games (consoles)

Us enthusiasts (gaming on PC) do it as a hobby. As long as we are here, there will be PC games.. PC games are the only games that can push the envelope and show new technology to later bring onto a console.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 03:34 PM   #3
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I think in the end consoles and computer will just merge.

you will get one device that is connected to your HDTV, from wich you can game, internet, watch movies, record your programs, etc.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 03:38 PM   #4
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This has been brought up many times and is an interesting theory, but I do not believe that PC games are on the downfall. In fact, lately (with BIG releases and sales of Doom 3 and Half Life 2) I've felt they are on the rise.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 03:49 PM   #5
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Yeah I'm sure this has been brought up many times. But it's always a good idea to keep thinking about what changes are taking place. Not only that but I like to vent my thought's out in a thread I start so it's easier for me to see what other people think. I'm not apparently all that bright and so it's easier to just start one myself rather than scan for topics I'm thinking of. Case in point I put this in the Radeon area where I had posted just before this one...someday I'll actually start learning how to function in an online society. he he he..then again maybe not
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 03:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
you will get one device that is connected to your HDTV, from wich you can game, internet, watch movies, record your programs, etc.
Sounds like PHANTOM which is being made by BitBoys.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:03 PM   #7
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10: with just 1500 dollars, i've kept this computer near top-of-the-line for 3 years, you cant upgrade a console and their turnover rate is now about 3 years

i dont have to pay for Half-Life 2 online. you have to pay to play console games online by using their services(xbox live), or as is the case with the PS2, you have to pay EACH COMPANY YOU BUY THE GAMES FROM to play online

9: lol. do you know the resolution of HDTVs? they're REALLY not worth it, and they all look like crap compared to a good monitor. plasma screens tend to blur, fade out and die after a few months of use(actual use, not ownership)

8: this is a laziness issue, not a complexity issue

7: always crackable for fair use -- consoles are region restricted, pcs are not

6: i'm about to turn a small suitcase of mine into a new case for my computer.
who cares about noise when you're playing a game much louder than the MAYBE 15-20 decebel fan noise in a closed case

5: not all games have to be activated. last time i had to activate something on an xbox? xbox live

4: consoles are set-hardware, nothing really varies, but if there IS a bug on a console, its not exactly patchable(at least easily or without xbox live), is it?

3: consoles: they cant compete, heres why: pcs hardware is 2-3 generations beyond that of consoles at any given time. do you think the xbox 2 or the R500 core will be out for PCs first?

2: consoles have more users because most users are complete idiots. you have to remember, brittneys dance beat MADE money.

1: didnt you already say this?




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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:08 PM   #8
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There are games that are better suited for PC not only because of the keyboard + mouse combo, but also for the community. I like being on IRC, AOLIM, or an online forum and someone tells me to join a server with a couple other buddies I regularly play online. It has an appeal that's inherent to PC only I think, despite XBOX Live which is not free unlike PC game servers. And a PC is completely customizable in appearance and components, every PC at Rage3d is unique in some way, and that's what makes them so appealing. Upgrading costs money, but it's also half the fun. And with games like Doom3, HL2, UT2K4, CSS, I think that the PC is becoming a more interesting option.

But on the flip side, console is the only way to go for some games for me. I enjoy fighting and driving games on the comfort of a couch with gamepad in hand and nothing else. And console is best suited for in-person multiplayer gaming, it's not like you can have a LAN party any old time you want.

I find that there is a place for console and PC games, neither will ever die. Console for in-person multiplayer fun, and PC for first person shooters and the communities that go with those games.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tempnexus
Sounds like PHANTOM which is being made by BitBoys.
No it's not made by BitBoys, but by a company called Infinium Labs
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:13 PM   #10
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I never said well thought out I just said I was thinking..ha ha.. Anyhow don't go and ruin my reply to this on why the pc will live on. I was saving some of those remarks for later.

I'm a big defender of the pc. I see from your game list that you are playing many of the same games I am. Especially Civ III. Which is kind of my point. I just love that game. And as far as I know the only place you're going to find a game of that quality and style is the pc. However, even though Civ IV is in development, it most certainly isn't going to be in the top 100 sales for video games. Probably somewhere in the 200-500 mark. That's a guess. And what I'm saying is with lower sales than that of GTA San Andreas and other console (Halo2) sales pc's are having a hard time of it right now.

Half Life 2 and Doom III helped the pc....but for how long can it continue? Isn't Doom III going to Xbox as well?

BTW Civ IV, Oblivion, Empire Earth II, Age of Empires III are all on my to get list.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:13 PM   #11
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of course consoloses don't have hardware as great as PC hardware...

but they're cheaper than PCs (even at release times a PS2 was much cheaper than a high-end pc)

and games don't need state-of-the-art graphics to be fun
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:16 PM   #12
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mods will keep PC gaming alive. there are very few (none by my count) mods for console games.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:22 PM   #13
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Speaking of Mods and such. Just what on earth would happen to gaming if most everyone just played consoles? I mean, where have many of the great programmers for game making come from? My thoughts are from modders, and online community clans and from talented skinners and folks that use computers on a regular basis to do all sorts of programming. What would happen if less and less people playing games actually cared enough to start making them, modding them, fixing them and making careers out of it? That has got to be a downside to the console onslaught in my opinion.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:22 PM   #14
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I'd consider HDTV for a PC if they werent all crap, especialy plasma, less than a year of use it starts losing quality, lcd is just now building up, mostly thanks to samsung and their fast reaction/time tech.

Oh and btw 99% of console games are crap. I'd rather not game at all if I'd have to play on consoles.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Universaluv
I never said well thought out I just said I was thinking..ha ha.. Anyhow don't go and ruin my reply to this on why the pc will live on. I was saving some of those remarks for later.

<snip>

Half Life 2 and Doom III helped the pc....but for how long can it continue? Isn't Doom III going to Xbox as well?
i already took that out of my post, i didnt think it was a wise thing to say

both doom 3 and hl2 are on their way to xbox


ever play XIII on the xbox? ever play XIII on the PC?
xbox is LOW(not medium) DETAIL, PC is HIGH DETAIL, even on an 8500
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:25 PM   #16
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You can't play 1st person shooter on a console, except you mod it to plug in a mouse and keyboard. There is international gaming league (I'm thinking about CS) where players can win big prices. I don't think we will ever see a CS tournament on Xbox...

But I prefer playing some kind of games on my Xbox, like NFU:2 or NHL2005.

Also, there is a visual quality difference btw a television and a CRT or TFT, games look more beautiful on PC, no doubt about that.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:32 PM   #17
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Meh, i don't really care. I play on both consoles and PC. I find the quality of console games to be far superior to those on the PC side of things though, that's the main difference i see. And no, i don't mean visually, i mean actual GAMEPLAY.

Oh well, *launches MAME*.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MazeWing
I think in the end consoles and computer will just merge.

you will get one device that is connected to your HDTV, from wich you can game, internet, watch movies, record your programs, etc.
definitely the most sensible and probable future for entertainment technology..
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _leech_
Meh, i don't really care. I play on both consoles and PC. I find the quality of console games to be far superior to those on the PC side of things though, that's the main difference i see. And no, i don't mean visually, i mean actual GAMEPLAY.

Oh well, *launches MAME*.
MAME rhymes with lame.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:43 PM   #20
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Hey it's ok..I know you didn't mean anything by it. I don't take things people say too out of text. It's hard enough to try to type out feelings and make it short. But thanks anyhow....I wasn't trying to tick you off just poking some fun...I'm actually quite a rediculous person....hmm
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:47 PM   #21
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DirectX that ships with Longhorn is aimed to make PC gaming awesome.
It makes it alot easier to develop for with JIT shader compilers which remove the need for developers to program for specific hardware.
It also incorporates a standard for a controller meaning you just plug it in and it works with every game - like a console.
DX10 also has a standard which allows you to play the game directly from the media (like a console).
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 04:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile
DirectX that ships with Longhorn is aimed to make PC gaming awesome.
It makes it alot easier to develop for with JIT shader compilers which remove the need for developers to program for specific hardware.
It also incorporates a standard for a controller meaning you just plug it in and it works with every game - like a console.
DX10 also has a standard which allows you to play the game directly from the media (like a console).
you're supposed to like macs! you're confusing me!
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 05:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiophile
DX10 also has a standard which allows you to play the game directly from the media (like a console).

Are you serious? You don't have to install it? No way that can't be right......I'm dumbfounded
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 05:20 PM   #24
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Yeah, but it's not going to be called Directx10. Directx is to be renamed Windows Graphics Foundation.

Also, there will be no vertex and pixel shaders anymore. There will be a "common shader core" which is essentially a fully programmable pipeline which can be used to do either function. It'll also be a lot more versatile.
Think collision detection and physics calculations.

WGF also requires the GPU to be available to multiple applications simultaneously (of course this is necessary because of avalon). You can almost think of multiple pipelines as multiple CPUs each capable of performing a different kind of calculation, for a different app.

Memory management for WGF will change dramatically and will have the following facets:
  1. Preload required memory surfaces
  2. On-demand loading of memory surfaces
  3. On-demand loading of pages from memory surfaces
Cap bits will also be eliminated as both ATI and Nvidia are horribly abusing them.

Longhorn Display Driver Model (LDDM) will also make gaming on the PC much easier. It's aims:

  • GPU sharing
  • Reduction in driver complexity
  • Seamless hang recovery
  • Improved monitor support
  • Enhanced boot experience
  • High-resolution graphics earlier in the boot process
  • Improved fast user switching
  • Driver upgrades without reboot (Plug and Play Stop support)
  • Improvements for power management
In other words, to fix broken things. No more BSODs from graphics drivers.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 05:28 PM   #25
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yay for the new horny OS!
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 05:34 PM   #26
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Sounds like many improvements for the pc are on the way. Myself if I made games, would only make pc games. I don't own a console. I don't think I ever will. People who say you can't sit on the couch and play a computer game haven't tried. I played all of my Outcast game with a wireless keyboard and mouse in the recliner in front of the tv, using the video out and sound out from one of my pc's. It was great. But it really worked for that game because of how outdated it really is. The max resolution was something like 640X480 or something.

Not to mention laptops. of course. Which I just bought my first one of those as well. Been playing TigerWoods 2005 with it. Works great....
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 06:57 PM   #27
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Quote:
0. Money...writing a game for a console is cheaper, quicker and easier. For the most part.
Don't know where you get this idea, it's definitely not cheaper.

For example, to develop a PS2 game, each of your team is likely to need a highend PC (at the time), at the very least for the artists and scripters. Then at the very least some of the programmers will need PS2 dev kits, a standard one of which costs a five figure sum, a PS2 performance analyser is almost double again. The more dev kits you have, the more productive team members can be but this is not likely to be financially viable. However, most team members at the very least will need a PS2 test station and a TV, while nowhere as expensive as a dev kit, they're not cheap either. And finally you have to deal with Sony, you can't just make your game and sell it when you see fit - Sony have to approve it first and if the game needs resubmitted (Sony can fail a game for pretty much anything they want) it's more money yet again.

It's the same for Microsoft and Nintendo, the development equipment costs make it difficult to get into console development.

I think it's laughable that so called 'PC Gamers' think that PC gaming is a level above console gaming, which is just for kiddy games with no depth. I'm both a PC gamer and a console gamer, enjoying the best of all the platforms, anyone who deliberates limits themself to a single platform - there are far more to games than just graphics.

John
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 07:39 PM   #28
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RPG's (that I accually like: Gothic, Elder Scrolls, D&D)
FPS's
RTS's (Warcraft, Starcraft, Age of Empires)
Simulations (Racing, Flying and others. This genera is completely missing on consoles.)

I don't think it's going any place any time soon. I do like the way the Race Sims are being made though. All the big racing Sim do out within the year are all going to be self published. (R-Factor, netKar Pro, Live for speed and First-Racing's game are all self published so far)

Last edited by Sentri : Jan 14, 2005 at 07:59 PM.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 07:56 PM   #29
dryars
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I equate consoles with "Gaming For Dummies"

I've had this discussion with a co-worker already, who insists that a game is just a game, and that there is no difference between a $200 PS2 and a $1500 PC(except the price). Some people just don't get it, and will never understand why. they are also the same people that buy Dells just because some punk kid says its "cool" to own one.

But seriously, it's the same people who by Fullscreen DVDs instead of OAR, because there is "more picture", and the same people who think North American cars are as good as imports. Bottom line: They're retarded.
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Old Jan 14, 2005, 07:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dryars
I equate consoles with "Gaming For Dummies"

...

But seriously, it's the same people who by Fullscreen DVDs instead of OAR, because there is "more picture", and the same people who think North American cars are as good as imports. Bottom line: They're retarded.
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