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Old Apr 28, 2006, 06:48 PM   #1
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Zero
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Default PSU power consumption?

Anyone have a guide on how to measure or one that lists power consumption for different PSUs (over various wattages and brands)?
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Old Apr 28, 2006, 09:49 PM   #2
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You mean its efficiency?
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Old Apr 28, 2006, 10:45 PM   #3
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now as in how much electricity they use. though I guess efficiency would be used in figuring out that value theoretically. I'm trying to come up with a purchasing cost/operational cost review of some PSUs.
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Old Apr 29, 2006, 03:55 AM   #4
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You are talking about the efficiency rating I think.... If you look at newegg.com they list the efficiency rating of most of the power supplies they have. Those are manufacturer specs, but should be a good estimate.


You are talking about: If your computer parts use 100w of power total then at that current then it would be sucking 120w of power from the wall right?
or the proper way to describe it I guess would be if your power supply is pulling 120w from the wall it will efficiently be able to use 100 of those watts.

Thats efficieny rating.

AFAIK seasonic is about the best in that department right now. My cooler master scored very well in that department in the review I was reading as well.
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Old Apr 29, 2006, 09:32 AM   #5
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To measure efficiency you need a true power meter and a known load. You put the load on the supply, so you know the output power, and then you measure the input power with the true power meter. Divide those two as in 80W output / 100W input = 80% and you've got efficiency. Exactly as lil bastard said. You can't simply measure power consumption without knowing how much power the supply is putting out.

I believe AnandTech has done this on their latest roundup but I can't find the article. Tech Report does it here in this roundup on page 15. This number will be in the same general region for a similar output power because the companies' are all aware of each other's performance and striving to beat each other, many are probably the same supply with different badging, and the topologies of the supplies are probably the same. As you can see from the TR report, they vary 23% at the A64 idle while the other 3 test have them 10-11% difference.
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Old Apr 29, 2006, 11:21 AM   #6
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I'm trying to figure out how many kWh a PC uses in a year. I flunked the electrical section of physics in high school so bear with me, the situation is this, various computers with PSUs ranging from 400w-700w are running 24/7. If I find out their efficiency, and can figure out how much power they draw at any given time (in W), can I figure out how many kWh they consume? Once I do that, I simply multiply by the electricity rates in my area and by and 24hrsx365 to find annual consumption right?

I was hoping someone had done this sort of testing before, but I guess not.
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Old Apr 29, 2006, 12:03 PM   #7
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Why not just measure what you are really using.
The online programs have to assume worst case.

We can measure the wattage using the APC UPS, it is just one of the benifits of having a good UPS on your system.

I have a lot of items connected to the battery side of my UPS. Both my computer and LCD are connected.

idle = 306W measured


full load = 354W measured


When the computer goes into sleep mode the amount of power will be less and we could measure this as well if desired.

All you have to do is run the PowerChute software on a different machine and connect the USB cable to that machine to get the values.

If you let your computer go into standby or hybernation when not in use the amount of power when you are not on the computer will be about 20W.

So all we have to do is figure the amount of time we will be using to computer for basic things (idle or near idle). And the amount of time we will be playing games that take our system to the limit.

For my system the idle amount of 306W simply means my computer will consume the same amount of power I would use with about three one hundred light bulbs.

http://www.snopud.com/energy/EnergyC...or.ashx?p=1973

Watts: 306
Hours per Month: 730 <= about ((24*365.25)/12))
Cost per Month: $17.57

Now if we only used out computer for four hours a day and we used hybernation then we would have the following.

=> Computer use cost
Watts: 306
Hours per Month: 122 <= about ((4*365.25)/12))
Cost per Month: $2.94

=> Computer idle cost
Watts: 20
Hours per Month: 608 <= about ((24*365.25)/12)) - 122
Cost per Month: $1.15

Total cost using hybernation for four hour use case:
Cost per Month: ($2.94 + $1.15) = $4.09

So a computer running 306 watts with this service provider can cost between $4.09 to a max of $17.57 depending on computer use.

Here is my computer system that was used in this test.


My System
* Monitor: Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW 24" LCD
* Motherboard: ASUS A8R-MVP ATX AMD CrossFire Motherboard
* CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Dual Core
* Memory: CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) TWINX2048-3200C2PRO
* Video: All-in-Wonder® X1800 XL 256MB PCI Express®
* ATI HDTV Wonder Remote Control Edition PCI TV Tuner
* Sound: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro Sound Card
* Ethernet: Onboard Marvell 88E8001 10/100/1000Base-T Gigabit
* Hard Disk-1&2: Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3300622AS 300GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s x 2 (total 600GB) RAID-0
* Hard Disk-3&4: Maxtor 6Y120M0 120GB 7200 RPM SATA 1.5Gb/s x 2 (total 240GB) RAID-0
* Hard Disk-5: Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3160812A 160GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA100
* DVD-R/RW: SONY White IDE DVD Burner Model DRU810A
* DVD-R/RW: SONY Silver USB 2.0/i.LINK External DVD Burner Model DRX810UL
* CASE: Thermaltake Tai-Chi VB5001SNA Black/ Silver Computer Case with liquid cooling
* Thermaltake A2309 iCage 5.25" bay (2 units)
* LCD-TEMP: AeroCool GateWatch-SV Silver GateWatch with LCD display
* PSU: PC Power & Cooling 510 SLI-PFC 510W
* UPS: APC Back-UPS XS 1000 UPS, 1000 VA, 600 Watts
* OS: Microsoft Windows XP Media Center 2005 Rollup 2
* OS: Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
* Speakers: Klipsch ProMedia Ultra 5.1




Direct link to images
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http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/487...oadfull3rn.jpg
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Old Apr 29, 2006, 12:59 PM   #8
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very nice grog. I don't have a UPS at the moment to test with but I can make some worst case scenario assumptions. My main rig's Antec PSU for instance is pretty inefficient (I'm guessing ~75% like all the other upper Antecs), so a power draw of 640W to output 480W under load conditions.

so 0.64kW x $0.067/kWh x 24 x (365.25/12) = ~$31/month

Of course, I don't run at load constantly but I never set it to hibernate either, so more calculations are needed for the lower value. Once I get some PSUs together, I'll be able to calculate what the difference in efficiency and consumption amounts to.

My goal is to see whether or not the upper end ones like PC&C are justifiable in terms of consumption. Will post results later, thanks!
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Old Apr 29, 2006, 01:25 PM   #9
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Just as a side note,

when I switched my antec true 430 to my CM 550, the power consumption at the wall went down by about 50w average IIRC.
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Old Apr 29, 2006, 01:26 PM   #10
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Also, if you are looking for a supply that will cost less money to run make sure you get one with active PFC. It doesnt do anything for performance of the computer, but it will lower your electric bills.
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Old Apr 30, 2006, 02:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
very nice grog. I don't have a UPS at the moment to test with but I can make some worst case scenario assumptions. My main rig's Antec PSU for instance is pretty inefficient (I'm guessing ~75% like all the other upper Antecs), so a power draw of 640W to output 480W under load conditions.

so 0.64kW x $0.067/kWh x 24 x (365.25/12) = ~$31/month

Of course, I don't run at load constantly but I never set it to hibernate either, so more calculations are needed for the lower value. Once I get some PSUs together, I'll be able to calculate what the difference in efficiency and consumption amounts to.

My goal is to see whether or not the upper end ones like PC&C are justifiable in terms of consumption. Will post results later, thanks!
You've got to realise that a 480w PSU does not put out 480w all the time.

That'll be it's max output, it all depends on what hardware you have, how often it is stressed etc. For example, CPUs are much cooler when not stressed as they draw less power.

Another way to get a rough guess of how much power your comp is using, is to turn it on, then measure the current on each 12v line (most PSUs have 3 or 4) using a Multimeter. It doesn't matter where you measure the current coz they're usually wired in parallel, so current is the same everywhere.

So say you measure all the 12v lines, and you get 10A, 5A and 15A. You can use

P=I*V

Power (in watts) = Current * Voltage

= 10*12 + 5*12 + 15*12 = 360w on the 12v lines.

Add up the 12v lines, PCI-E line, 5v line etc, to get approx total output power, P(o)

P(i) = P(o)/0.75

It's a very rough way of doing it, and for the motherboard/proc/pci devices you'd have to guestimate unless you know where to measure the current, but at least it'll work.

If you're doing it for a company you could just overestimate and they'd get a nice suprise with a lower bill than exprected :mrgreen:
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Old Apr 30, 2006, 03:47 PM   #12
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yeah I hear ya. I was just using worst case scenario since it's the easiest to figure out. I'm helping out a friend with a PSU roundup so we still have to iron out the methodology, but I was just looking for a rough guidleine. Thanks everyone
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Old Apr 30, 2006, 10:55 PM   #13
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PFC of any form [passive or active] doesn't have anything to do with efficiency. Actually, PFC will lower efficiency since you're adding [at least] another switch and diode into the system. PFC makes the line current match the line voltage - meaning the supply looks like a resistive load. It makes the power company not have to produce power that is stored and sent back to them without being used. lil bastard is right that it will lower your electricity bill because your computer won't draw as much power, but I wanted to note that's not the same as efficiency.

Along with mobilemadness's post, I think you can find idle and definitely you can find full load power for processors. Just to make things clear, dividing Po by 0.75 was to account for the 75% efficiency.
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Old May 1, 2006, 12:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eezip
PFC of any form [passive or active] doesn't have anything to do with efficiency. Actually, PFC will lower efficiency since you're adding [at least] another switch and diode into the system. PFC makes the line current match the line voltage - meaning the supply looks like a resistive load. It makes the power company not have to produce power that is stored and sent back to them without being used. lil bastard is right that it will lower your electricity bill because your computer won't draw as much power, but I wanted to note that's not the same as efficiency.

Along with mobilemadness's post, I think you can find idle and definitely you can find full load power for processors. Just to make things clear, dividing Po by 0.75 was to account for the 75% efficiency.
PFC will only lower your bill if you're paying for VAs.
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Old May 1, 2006, 02:40 AM   #15
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my rig in sig uses 200-230 at relative idle (what i consider idle which means watching TV and running azerous well browsing in IE)
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Old May 1, 2006, 03:10 AM   #16
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The best bet is to measure it yourself with a metter like killawatt.

but it's not wise to believe that this is the same wattage your internal components are consuming. Don't forget that power coming form the wall is AC and the power in your PC is DC. The average efficeincy of average power supply is 70%. Some can be as high as 85 or as low as 60%.

to ensure all your device work properly, get a PSU that overs not only enough wattage, but amperage to the rails too.


For UPS, nothing beats measurement. However buing one that exceeds the total wattage (DC output) of your power supply should be fine.
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