Spyder Review Thread (Phenom+790FX)

[Debello]

While reading the reviews no truer set of words can be said then what PC Perspective wrote

I can't help but draw the analogy of the Phenom launch to that of the Radeon HD 2900 XT: it was a technologically advanced GPU that had scaling issues that kept it from competing at the high end of its market thus forcing AMD to drop prices to stay in the game. Now that AMD's HD 3800 series of GPUs has seemingly fixed that problem, they are presented another with the Phenom desktop processor. Hopefully AMD will make as quick a turnaround on this project as they did on the GPU side and we'll see the Phenoms truly compete at all price ranges.

HardOCP
AMD Phenom & Spider vs Intel QX9770

As stated on page one, the Phenom is a disappointment. It comes close to meeting a clock-for-clock battle at 2.4GHz or so, but still just does not do it. Phenom has not caught up with the IPC Conroe had to offer so many months ago. As the clocks scale, Phenom begins to look even worse against the new Intel Yorkfield processors. Keep in mind those Yorkfield core Intel processors are priced about $700 more than our Phenom 9600, but the lower end Intel Yorkfield cores are coming and will be very close in price to our Phenom 9600. And yes Yorkfield will simply run away from Phenom in clock to clock benchmarks.

The Spider platform is a shining star with its solid 790FX chipset motherboards, and the AMD OverDrive application is a sure fire winner over other solutions, but it is hard to suggest a system based on those qualities alone when it seems there are going to be much greater values in Intel products very soon. AMD has to scale, and scale quickly. I have seen Phenom processors running at 3.6GHz (air cooled) on the 790FX chipset. AMD needs 3GHz+ to be a retail reality soon, but sadly I simply don’t see it happening. I have lost a lot of faith in AMD the last 12 months.

Our computer hardware environment has to have solid competition in it to keep prices low and performance high; AMD is now in the position to come to the rescue of the enthusiast…again.

Tech Report
AMD's 790FX chipset

Spider is an ambitious attempt at an enthusiast platform, and while Phenom and the Radeon HD 3800 series might grab all the headlines, the 790FX chipset is undoubtedly a key component of the overall equation. With support for HyperTransport 3 and second generation PCI Express, the 790FX has the high-bandwidth connectivity needed to fully exploit Phenom processors on one end and Radeon HD 3800 series graphics cards on the other. In fact, the 790FX is the only chipset currently on the market that fully supports all the features packed into new Phenom processors. Couple that with excellent OverDrive tweaking and overclocking software that we're told will be widely-supported by motherboard makers, and the 790FX looks pretty good.

Anandtech
AMD's Phenom Unveiled: A Somber Farewell to K8

It's tough to believe that what we're looking at here is a farewell to the K8. When AMD first released the Athlon 64, its performance was absolutely mind blowing. It kept us from recommending Intel processors for at least 3 years; Phenom's arrival, however, is far more somber. Phenom has a difficult job to do, it needs to keep AMD afloat for the next year. Phenom is much like the solemn relative, visiting during a time of great sorrow within the family; let's hope for AMD's sake that it can lift spirits in the New Year.

PC Perspective
AMD Phenom 9600 and 9900 Review: Barcelona on the Desktop

I have no doubts that many readers of this review fill find it disappointing that AMD's Phenom processors were not competitive with Intel's high-end quad-core processors. It's hard to hide my own disappointment as I personally really wanted AMD to do well - competition makes the world go 'round and prices go down; always good things in my book. The Phenom launch isn't a total loss though thanks to the aggressive pricing that AMD is pinning on these initial CPUs; that will appeal to many enthusiasts.

Dailytech
AMD "Spider" Crawls Up the Water Spout

AMD designates the AMD 790X as its performance chipset, slotted just below the 790FX. AMD guidance states this chipset will run the consumer between $99-150. The mainstream AMD 770 chipset will not see store shelves for several months, but AMD claims this chip will round off the mainstream segment for AMD chipsets.

OC Workbench

AMD Phenom GP-9600 on Gigabyte GA-MA790FX-DQ6 Review - Benchmarks

We have seen how the board performs with a Phenom GP-9600 processor. Although some of you might be a bit disappointed with the results, that is largely due to the processor used. In fact, If you look at the benchmarks of games, the numbers aren't that far off from the Intel platform. The only more noticeable difference is in the multimedia encoding. In fact, the performance levels of the phenom was better than I expected.

In terms of features, this board has an array of good stuff built onto this board. Basically, what you want from a board is already there. With 4 slots of PCIe, the board is basically ready for CrossFire X. Features like Quad cooling, eSATA2, Double Phase and Quad BIOS are probably the most important enhancements added to make this board a stable and screamer.

Firing Squad
AMD Phenom Technology Demonstration

One theme you'll frequently hear from engineers at both Intel and AMD is that processor performance is equal to the number instructions executed per clock cycle (IPC) multiplied by the processor's clock frequency:

Performance = IPC x Clock speed

With Phenom topping out at just 2.3GHz, clearly Phenom is playing catch up to Core 2 in terms of clock speeds. This limits Phenom’s performance potential. But based on our gaming benchmarks today, it also looks like they’re behind in IPC as well: at equal clock speeds Core 2 generally ran faster than Phenom. The only exception to this was our Windows Media Encoder 9 test, where the processor’s clock speed played a greater role than IPC in performance.

Hexus
When quad-cores collide: AMD Phenom 9600 vs Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600

Bottom line: the new Phenom quad-core processor and 7-series chipset pack in some potent technology. Trouble is, Intel got there first. You need to be better than the competition if coming from behind: AMD's new launches aren't quite that.

[Crisler]

No one can dispute the numbers coming out on the various benchmarks, the Phenom is just not posting what was hoped. However I found the end of the article at Tom's Hardware to be a very interesting take.

Looking into the future with the Spider platform, AMD seems to be the less expensive than Intel, since the chip giant has already announced that its current high-end platform X38 will be incompatible to the next generation of high-end CPUs at the beginning of next year. In the end, if you're looking to make the most of a long-term investment, AMD is without a doubt the better platform choice.

While the entire computing world seems to be looking at the moment and raw speed numbers they are missing the bigger picture. First processor speed becomes less of an issue every year. Even now an X2 3800 with a good graphics card can make a solid gaming machine. True there are faster chips but when you dump the benchmarks and do nothing but pure gaming experience the performance gap is less than people claim.

Now take that and run with a platform that has a much broader upgrade path. I am not just talking future CPUs but even in the GPU arena. Think about it, a person new to gaming grabs a system based on a 9600 chip using the spider platform with a 3850 for graphics.

At a price lower than an Intel system they take thier first steps into the world of gaming. That step, just like a babies first step opens a whole new wrold before them. Thier computing experience is now new again and the awe of computer gaming is found. In a few months they decide they want more out of their gaming experience. With little cost they slap in another 3850 and the world opens new again. They still BTW have room to do this twice more.

Plus in another 18 months they want more computing power, AMD has openly stated that for the next 2 to 3 years all processors will work on the spider platform with no new motherbaord needed. This means that for nothing more than the cost of a chip they can again put a major boost on their system.

For those that have to have the "best" now and have a ton of money to burn, Spider is just not going to measure up. However for those that are cash tight and want a great budget system that can easily become much more than a budget system without breaking the bank Spider has some serious features to offer.

[Sound_Card]

Looking at the reviews, it may not be the end all processor we have been looking for, but clock for clock it's more competitive than the Athlon and that is really going to help them.

Overall the platform as a whole looks solid.

and to sum up my feelings....

[AlexV]

Originally Posted by Sound_Card

Looking at the reviews, it may not be the end all processor we have been looking for, but clock for clock it's more competitive than the Athlon and that is really going to help them.

Overall the platform as a whole looks solid.

and to sum up my feelings....

What about the fact that it has worse IPC than Conroe/Penryn, and the Q6600 is better than the unreleased 9700?The 790FX is a saving grace though...would've been beautiful to get one of those+Q9770. Is anybody aware of the aims for the Phenom FX80?2.8Ghz?3.0?

[AllexxisF1]

(I jump off the nearest cliff)



Well that about does it for me...Intel, Nvidia...welcome home.

[Skynet]

Originally Posted by AllexxisF1

Well that about does it for me...Intel, Nvidia...welcome home.

It pains me................



but I totally agree. Goodbye AMD.

[TheNGTV]

Conclusion too fast?

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...om-ghz-due-tlb

They could launch faster chips that actually go up to 2.6 this year, but were hampered by the bug.

Next year's B3 (The "3Ghz" stepping) and 45nm "C2" steppings, will be where AMD needs to show us their guns.

For now, it's being said that you could go to 3Ghz easily while remaining power saving features, that something that Intel chips can't do.

[SteadVéx]

Originally Posted by TheNGTV

Conclusion too fast?

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...om-ghz-due-tlb

They could launch faster chips that actually go up to 2.6 this year, but were hampered by the bug.

Next year's B3 (The "3Ghz" stepping) and 45nm "C2" steppings, will be where AMD needs to show us their guns.

For now, it's being said that you could go to 3Ghz easily while remaining power saving features, that something that Intel chips can't do.

I'm sure its not a good sign when people start looking towards the inquirer for rays of hope for a product

[Skynet]

Even if AMD somehow pulls off a miracle and gets 3.5Ghz chips out in 60-90 days (never happen) it still won't give them the performance crown at all. K10 is either broken, poorly designed, or both. From every review I've read it just does not have the IPC to beat out Intel's CURRENT lineup, never mind what they have in the pipeline.

K10 is looking more and more like a moderately enhanced K8 made into a quad core. And considering how long it takes Hector and his crew to put ANYTHING new into a current design, we'll be waiting until what, 2014 before Phenom gets some arch improvements?

[Skynet]

BTW, what the Inq is saying makes no sense to me.

According to sources close to the company, 2.4, 2.6, 2.8, 3.0 and faster parts will appear on the market when the B3 revision comes to life. B3 revision is key CPU stepping for AMD's future, since it is considered a speed-bin of B1 and B2. With this errata fixed, Phenoms will have no problems competing against Intel in clock-per-clock action, but it will bring serious disappointment to AMD fanboys and market itself. They are probably blubbing already.

What difference is a revision going to make in terms of IPC? The B3's will fix a bug that caused hard locks for higher clocked chips, but it won't change anything else in the chip, which means same IPC. Which from what I've read, cannot compete with Intel @ same clock.

Hector please fall on your sword.

[DnL]

Obviously AMD is not aiming for the performance crown (no idea what they are aiming for )

Intel and Nvidia surelly having fun rite now

[Skynet]

Originally Posted by DnL

Obviously AMD is not aiming for the performance crown

Of course they are. Problem is, Hector is blind as a bat and shot both himself and his key engineers in the foot.

[Jas420221]

What a damn shame.....

Originally Posted by DnL

Obviously AMD is not aiming for the performance crown (no idea what they are aiming for )

Intel and Nvidia surelly having fun rite now

They are not aiming for #1 in any part of their business. See first sentenence in this post again...

Sure its better than K8, it damn well better be, but I dont see how that is a good thing in being better than the last gen of chip. That should be a given. What I think everyone was looking for was Penryn competition, and according to those benchies, its not that.

[Debello]

Originally Posted by Skynet

Of course they are. Problem is, Hector is blind as a bat and shot both himself and his key engineers in the foot.

The "Blame Hector" BS is old, while it is the CEO job to guide the company, he isnt responsible for everything that brought AMD to this point. The Barcalona was a very ambitious project and mistakes have been made and unforseen problems poped up.

The brightside is that the HD3000 series is well recieved and AMD seems to be moving alot of them. Also the 790F/X mobo are priced very well compared to their Intel counter parts, espically if you want to run crossfire. Because the 790FX is far more affordable then the X38 motherboards.

Look at it this way the Phenom 9600 comes in at $283 and you can pick up a 790FX mobo for $170 dollars. Intel Q6600 comes in at $279.99 and a X38 mobo is at $230, that is a $50 savings by going with AMD. With the prices of the HD3000 series that extra $50 goes along way for a second video card if you choose to go that way.

[Jas420221]

Originally Posted by Debello

Look at it this way the Phenom 9600 comes in at $283 and you can pick up a 790FX mobo for $170 dollars. Intel Q6600 comes in at $279.99 and a X38 mobo is at $230, that is a $50 savings by going with AMD. With the prices of the HD3000 series that extra $50 goes along way for a second video card if you choose to go that way.

They have the same quandry as the 3870. Price /performance is about the same for these chips. Do you go with the better performing chip that costs a little more, or go with a less competative chip that costs less?

Whats the o/c headroom Penryn and Phenom? That will make more of a difference in the enthusiest market.

[jam2k]

Originally Posted by From Anandtech

Overclocking Given the launch frequencies, you can expect that Phenom isn't a tremendously overclockable chip.
While we were able to run our 2.4GHz chip at 3.0GHz, we couldn't get it stable. Even 2.8GHz wasn't entirely stable, but 2.6GHz was attainable for benchmarks.

These chips definitely don't look interesting at all.

[Jas420221]

Originally Posted by jam2k

These chips definitely don't look interesting at all.

Ouch.. not even highly overclockable...These things better be HELLA cheap.

[SOCOM Ops]

Well this is a let down. Will buy last years AMD tech for my upgrade or go Intel.

[jam2k]

Originally Posted by Jas420221

Ouch.. not even highly overclockable...These things better be HELLA cheap.

Yep.

They can't even get decent OC from REVIEW chips (cherry picked) !

What the hell was AMD thinking ?

[JethroBodine]

Originally Posted by SOCOM Ops

Well this is a let down. Will buy last years AMD tech for my upgrade or go Intel.

DO NOT buy last years AMD tech. I am telling you this as a person who has done FRAPs on a 2.8GHz FX vs a 2.8GHz C2d with 8800GTX SLi.

When you see things like double the framerate on minimums, it tends to shift your opinion.

As far as this new stuff goes, too little, too late. AMD has become the mid range competitor, offering nothing for top end.

S_C, AMD charged top dollar for their X2 chips back when they were top dog as well- they're no stranger to the $800-$1000 price. You can bet they would now too if they had the product.

Someone (can't remember who) on this board used to post "It's called BarcelOWNa" or something to that effect. Turns out he should have said "It's called BarcelOWNDa"

This truly saddens me- I supported AMD by buying their CPUs whenever they had a viable alternative. I can't even see wanting to swap out my E6700 for a Phenom. To what end?*

*Before anyone answers this, remember I game and surf on my home PCs 99.9% of the time. Few games using quad so far, and not huge jumps in the ones that are, and why wouldn't I just drop in a cheap Q6600 and OC it above anything Phenom can do if I want quad?

Very limited market for these, probably mainly AM2 board owners.

[Blacklash]

I've seen the Phenoms overclocked up to 3.0GHz in some reviews. I have also seen Penryn doing anywhere from 4.0-4.4GHz on air or water cooling.

Good luck AMD.

[moshpit]

I used to have a little section at the bottom of my sig saying "AMD biased? Not me..." which was meant as a sarcastic joke that I really WAS highly AMD biased. I hate it when jokes come true like this. And that's what Phenom is after all the hype and hubbub about "true, native quad core", a joke. If AMD had a core equal to Intel's, the whole native versus glued would mean something.

I hate being right about the arguements I've had with several folks on this forum about that subject. I would have MUCH preferred to be wrong on this one

[SOCOM Ops]

Originally Posted by JethroBodine

DO NOT buy last years AMD tech. I am telling you this as a person who has done FRAPs on a 2.8GHz FX vs a 2.8GHz C2d with 8800GTX SLi.

When you see things like double the framerate on minimums, it tends to shift your opinion.

As far as this new stuff goes, too little, too late. AMD has become the mid range competitor, offering nothing for top end.

S_C, AMD charged top dollar for their X2 chips back when they were top dog as well- they're no stranger to the $800-$1000 price. You can bet they would now too if they had the product.

Someone (can't remember who) on this board used to post "It's called BarcelOWNa" or something to that effect. Turns out he should have said "It's called BarcelOWNDa"

This truly saddens me- I supported AMD by buying their CPUs whenever they had a viable alternative. I can't even see wanting to swap out my E6700 for a Phenom. To what end?*

*Before anyone answers this, remember I game and surf on my home PCs 99.9% of the time. Few games using quad so far, and not huge jumps in the ones that are, and why wouldn't I just drop in a cheap Q6600 and OC it above anything Phenom can do if I want quad?

Very limited market for these, probably mainly AM2 board owners.

Wow I hear u bro. I still have a Pentium4 3.0Ghz Prescott running and was looking for something "phenomenal" from AMD to upgrade and make the switch. From what I see im not not impressed with these phenoms, im staying away from them.

[shabby]

Originally Posted by Sound_Card

and to sum up my feelings....

Who actually buy's those $1000 cpu's? Everyone gets the q6600 and overclocks them. Maybe if the phenom could clock as high as the q6600 it wouldnt be so bad, but its only able to hit a couple hundred extra mhz.

[TheNGTV]

Originally Posted by SteadVéx

I'm sure its not a good sign when people start looking towards the inquirer for rays of hope for a product

Geez, it's documented elsewhere too.


2.0Ghz L3 and IMC are terrible. If they sync it with the chip clock (say 2.6-2.6) IPC would actually be a lot more competitive. It should happen, at least a higher L3/IMC clock.

[Lupine]

Wow, who would have thought that R3D members would be posting a darker commentary on this release than Kyle over at HardOCP!

Gold in Dem Der Hills

Well, maybe not gold, but a silver lining at the very least. Yes, there are more than a few saving graces to today’s Spider platform launch.

Aggressive Pricing

First off, there is pricing. AMD Phenom 2.2GHz and 2.3GHz processors will be selling for US$251 and US$283 respectively. This pricing puts it in line with the quad core Intel Core 2 Q6600, which is where AMD needs to be. There is no grand illusion at AMD that Phenom is something other than exactly what it is; the Kool-Aid may have been drunk a few months ago, but the reality of what Phenom is has set in, and that is perfectly reflected in its pricing. There will be no $1000 or $1200 processors for sale here today.

Black and Unlocked

Second, the enthusiast has been promised a “Black Edition” Phenom right out of the gate. Given the Phenom’s performance levels, we petitioned AMD heavily to deliver an unlocked Phenom to the enthusiast and they have listened. AMD knows the current Phenom is not going to feed the enthusiast needs if it is locked. I see this unlocked 2.3GHz Phenom as a huge olive branch being extended to the computer hardware enthusiast community. From our experiences, it should be fairly simple for any user to get their 2.3GHz Phenom running at a respectable 2.8GHz, 2.9GHz, or 3GHz on the right 790FX motherboard. In order to show support for the computer hardware enthusiasts AMD is pricing these unlocked 2.3GHz Phenoms at the same price as the regular 2.3GHz Phenom. There will be no pricing penalty implemented by AMD for the unlocked CPU. The first unlocked CPUs will likely not carry the “Black Edition” branding but will be likely have a sticker on the box to identify the contents.

Great Motherboards on the Way

Third, the overall Spider platform looks to be very solid. I can say that the 790FX chipset from AMD looks to be the best “ATI” chipset ever produced. It is cool running, and has been configured with a BIOS with enough toggles, switches, and dials to keep any tweaker happy for weeks. CrossFire support is of course native on all 790FX motherboards with “CrossFireX” featuring support for dual, triple, and quad CrossFire, as shown here working last week. The MSI motherboard shown in the picture has proper spacing to allow for 4 double slot video cards to be used in the PCIe slots. The MSI board is the only board I have seen configured to allow this. Also, while the motherboards I have worked with have not been perfect, they have not been in shambles. For being so new, these 790FX boards are very mature. I have noticed bugs and small issues, but none of them that are deal breakers. Even with questionable processors we have been able to run up to 3GHz on retail motherboards.

A REAL Overclocking Tool

Lastly, AMD has delivered an overclocking tool that actually works and does what it says. Sami Maekinin, an enthusiast brought into service by AMD is the lifeblood behind this product and if you ever see him out and about, make sure you buy that man a beer.

I know very well that the first thing you think of when you hear “AMD OverDrive” overclocking tool is NVIDIA’s nTune tool. nTune has always had lofty goals, but it always has been a flaming piece of ****. AOD is the polar opposite of nTune. AOD while extremely immature works better than nTune could ever aspire to. AOD is still far from perfect, but is still a tool that alone might have the enthusiast purchasing a Spider platform.

Source: HardOCP

That last bit was highlighted and bolded for laugh factor. The fact that Kyle is saying it speaks volumes. Later in the article, this comment floored me:

Platform Overview

When the hell did having a platform become so important? The “platform” has been pounded into us for a good year now as it seems to be of ever increasing importance. But really why do we need one and of what importance is it? There are more than a few answers to that question and they would all be correct.

AMD was of course the first big mover in this area with the purchase of ATI. It swallowed up ATI and immediately gained solid GPU and motherboard chipset divisions. Along with GPU, motherboard chipset, and AMD processors, you do have what I define as a platform. With these three parts, AMD is able to lay down product lines that will generate a lot of revenue for them. Intel’s Centrino platform was and still is the most successful platform we have ever seen. To get the Centrino platform branding on your unit and all the marketing associated with it, an integrator was looking at having Intel’s chipset, processors, and WiFi chip inside their product, most likely a notebook. AMD has recognized this success and seen it as the new way business is to be done. Intel has seen this as well as experienced it and that good fortune is the energizing impetus behind Intel’s Larrabee GPU project. That and maybe the wish to see NVIDIA wiped from the planet. And speaking of NVIDIA, you will hear the word “platform” spinning from its lips as well, but without a GPU and two “partner” companies that are caring less and less about NVIDIA motherboard chipset technology for its own CPUs, there seems to less and less “platform” at NVIDIA all the time. Looking forward, the only thing I see saving NVIDIA from being crushed or absorbed is the full financial failure of AMD, which of course is fodder for another story one day. Back to the Spider platform.

So now that we know a bit more of why we are seeing the platform become so important, you can obviously figure out it is all about control in the market place. AMD and Intel want its own video cards working well on its “own” motherboards that surely will showcase its own CPUs.

Bolded for emphasis.

Frankly I'm not sure what you guys are whining about. Possible leakage issues aside, AMD has released a product that should ensure their place in the market for a good while. The number of partners jumping on board the bandwagon right now echoes this. Yes, there is a big vacant sign at the top right now, but how many people are buying the top tier Intel procs? Not me! I'm happy running my overclocked Q6600, Q6700 and X3220 procs at those speeds for a fraction of the cost. And you're not going to find a fully unlocked Intel proc at $283 like AMD is giving us enthusiasts w/ their Phenom Black Edition proc.

I for one am glad to see AMD getting back in the game. And what I'm seeing here is a glimpse of why their purchase of ATi may end up being looked at as one of the smartest things they've done. Now we get to see if they build on this as the industry continues to move forward.

[Jas420221]

$283 for a Phenom black ed? Did I miss that in a link somewhere? Regardless, great price!

Its to bad you dont need the unlocked multi to reach its max o/c.

[Lupine]

Originally Posted by Jas420221

$283 for a Phenom black ed? Did I miss that in a link somewhere? Regardless, great price!

Its to bad you dont need the unlocked multi to reach its max o/c.

The same comment is valid for Intel's unlocked procs. Except for the great price part of course.

[Jas420221]

Originally Posted by Lupine

The same comment is valid for Intel's unlocked procs. Except for the great price part of course.

I disagree (except for the great price part ). You need that multi boost to hit 4Ghz+ which a lot of those hit.......

A 600Mhz o/c (2.4Ghz-->3Ghz) compared to a 1.2Ghz+ (2.8Ghz--->4GHz) o/c is a different ballgame altogether. But alas, most dont o/c so I am 'arguing' from an enthusiast standpoint. The AMD chip will hit max o/c's (according to early releases) way sooner proportionately which Im sure boards will be able to hit without breaking a sweat.

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by TheNGTV

Conclusion too fast?

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...om-ghz-due-tlb

They could launch faster chips that actually go up to 2.6 this year, but were hampered by the bug.

Next year's B3 (The "3Ghz" stepping) and 45nm "C2" steppings, will be where AMD needs to show us their guns.

For now, it's being said that you could go to 3Ghz easily while remaining power saving features, that something that Intel chips can't do.

I'm not waiting. I waited for the R600. Disappointment. I've waited for the Phenoms. Dissapointment again. I am truely disgruntled with AMD. I have stayed loyal and I am rewarded with a product with half-ass preformance. It gets beat by a 6400 in most benchmarks! Utterly foul. Goodbye AMD. Thanks for kicking Intel back into gear.