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Old Nov 26, 2021, 08:37 PM   #391
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I don't want ddr4 though.
I got the Maxipad Z690 Hero already a couple weeks ago and I plan to use it for the next 3+ years(maybe).
Eh, it's no rush. I'll wait this one out.


I saw gskill z5 just released in 6600 & 6800 flavours at cl36 and I think cl38 respectively. That's getting where it needs to be for positive results.
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Old Nov 26, 2021, 11:06 PM   #392
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Old Nov 28, 2021, 07:31 PM   #393
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For some reason, my motherboard has very course voltage adjustment. Default is 1.36V and the next step up is 1.43V. At 1.43V my Hynix MFR will run at DDR-3333 14-16-16-32 CR1, and the same settings with CAS 15 at 1.36V. I initially bought this Trident.Z 32GB kit for a 7700K several years ago, and for Hynix it scores pretty well in AIDA64 with optimized timings (over 50K Read/Write, almost 48K copy, at 45ns). I ran a few memory benchmarks and the difference with CAS 14 was in the noise/margin of error, so I don't see much advantage bumping up the voltage unless going for a high score. Even if the added risk is slight, I'm not comfortable leaving it at CAS 14 and 1.43V 24/7, given that the performance gain seems negligible.
It will be a very small difference in performance. To get more performance you really need to push the frequency higher and start tweaking the subtimings, but that's a deep rabbit hole to go down. Probably not worth it for most.

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FWIW, my earlier post was meant as a comment about different approaches to overclocking, how some are more interested in pushing voltage limits in pursuit of performance than others, and how I tend toward optimizing performance at lower voltages/noise/power consumption. My old Athon 64 X2 3800+ ran with a 2.5GHz overclock (stock is 2GHz) for a decade or so, at lower than default Vcore. Didn't see the point in bumping up Vcore for another 100MHz. The Athlon X2 still runs perfectly...
It's a valid observation. For what it's worth, I'm more on your page. I will not push to extreme voltages for a small gain. I just try to go to the point of diminishing returns and stop there, or even step it back a notch.
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Old Nov 29, 2021, 12:31 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by Arrowhead View Post
I don't want ddr4 though.
I got the Maxipad Z690 Hero already a couple weeks ago and I plan to use it for the next 3+ years(maybe).
Eh, it's no rush. I'll wait this one out.
The problem with early ddr5 boards is they support only ddr5 up to ddr5 6400 mhz...I would expect a mature ddr5 to have 10000 mhz ? So you still need to change mainboard for a later mature ddr5...What's the point ? As you saw from benchies ddr5 6000 is not such a big deal in games.Again what's the point ?

Unless you are in productivity i wouldn't go with DDR5 at this point unless you want to help the ddr5 economy to thrive.
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Old Nov 29, 2021, 12:59 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
It will be a very small difference in performance. To get more performance you really need to push the frequency higher and start tweaking the subtimings, but that's a deep rabbit hole to go down. Probably not worth it for most.

It's a valid observation. For what it's worth, I'm more on your page. I will not push to extreme voltages for a small gain. I just try to go to the point of diminishing returns and stop there, or even step it back a notch.
Timings and sub-timings have been tweaked as much as I can. With this particular set, if the frequency is pushed higher than 3333MHz, the write speed inexplicably drops by almost half; so 3333MHz seems to be the optimal performance limit for this 32GB Hynix DDR4 3200 kit. Loosening the timings and adding voltage (DRAM, VCCSA, VCCIO) doesn't seem to help either... it will work past 3400MHz, but the write speed crashes at the higher speed negating any gains. Any ideas why the write speed drops off like a switch at higher frequencies? Almost seems like writes go to half the normal data rate due to a signalling error or something.

But then 3333MHz at 15-16-16-32 at default voltage isn't too bad for an early production 3200MHz 16-18-18-38 kit, IMO. Basically, I tried to eek out as much performance as I could without significantly bumping up the voltage, and it does seem to perform better than 96% of similar kits according to UserBenchmark. I also tried bumping up the cache ratio, but getting it to equal the CPU ratio took too much extra Vcore to make it worthwhile.
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Old Nov 29, 2021, 05:23 AM   #396
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The problem with early ddr5 boards is they support only ddr5 up to ddr5 6400 mhz...I would expect a mature ddr5 to have 10000 mhz ? So you still need to change mainboard for a later mature ddr5...What's the point ? As you saw from benchies ddr5 6000 is not such a big deal in games.Again what's the point ?

Unless you are in productivity i wouldn't go with DDR5 at this point unless you want to help the ddr5 economy to thrive.
Not accurate. Just because the board on the spec sheet only says 6400, doesn't mean that's the max it can run. People have Hynix chips at 6600, and I've seen one guy with 7000 (though at suicide voltages).

I do agree that DDR4 is doing well in games but you're comparing extremely mature DDR4 to baby DDR5, and it's impressive that the DDR5 can already surpass the DDR4 when properly tweaked - that was not the case with DDR3 to DDR4.
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Old Nov 29, 2021, 05:38 AM   #397
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Not accurate. Just because the board on the spec sheet only says 6400, doesn't mean that's the max it can run. People have Hynix chips at 6600, and I've seen one guy with 7000 (though at suicide voltages).

I do agree that DDR4 is doing well in games but you're comparing extremely mature DDR4 to baby DDR5, and it's impressive that the DDR5 can already surpass the DDR4 when properly tweaked - that was not the case with DDR3 to DDR4.
I still feel the ddr5 owners may need to change the board at some point.
B350/x370 generation was a mess with memory.With B550 is much easier.
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Old Nov 29, 2021, 05:49 AM   #398
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Eh. Those platforms struggled because the IMC on Ryzen is literal dogshit, especially prior to 5000 series.

From what I've seen, there's no real issue with the IMC on DDR5 (not the story with DDR4 though) .. it seems to be the limit of the memory sticks themselves, and it makes sense since so much has moved over to the memory.
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Old Nov 29, 2021, 07:52 AM   #399
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talks about DDR5 memory stability also with two kits.

AND 1440p tests .... :P


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Old Yesterday, 08:32 AM   #400
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After spending a lot of time reading reviews and comparing stated performance vs my performance from a 5900X I have decided to not move to Alder Lake. It’s just not worth the money and also is a power hungry mofo.
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Old Yesterday, 08:38 AM   #401
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After spending a lot of time reading reviews and comparing stated performance vs my performance from a 5900X I have decided to not move to Alder Lake. It’s just not worth the money and also is a power hungry mofo.
Good for you, just wait for the 4080 next year.
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Old Yesterday, 11:18 AM   #402
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Not accurate. Just because the board on the spec sheet only says 6400, doesn't mean that's the max it can run. People have Hynix chips at 6600, and I've seen one guy with 7000 (though at suicide voltages).

I do agree that DDR4 is doing well in games but you're comparing extremely mature DDR4 to baby DDR5, and it's impressive that the DDR5 can already surpass the DDR4 when properly tweaked - that was not the case with DDR3 to DDR4.

The latest crop of ddr4 mainboards for ADL qvl says 5133 mhz ... I remember the very basic first ddr4 was 2133mhz i bought from crucial.If the ddr4 trend of frequencies is keept then DDR5 suppose to bring 10000mhz with lower latencies..I am curious if this boards will support ddr5 10000 when they apear.
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