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Radeon Tweaking, Modding, and Overclocking Discuss Radeon tweaking, modding, and overclocking practices. Want to post your benchmarks scores? This is the place!

 
 
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 07:26 AM   #1
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Jawed
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Default [H] has got a real nerve - totally lost my respect

Here's the review of HL-2 performance.

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjkyLDE=

One question, why set Reflect World, not Reflect All. What kind of dumbass reviewer doesn't use the highest quality water? Doh.

Then we get this ******** in this thread accusing Driver Heaven of "simply regurgitating PR drivel":

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=833599

DH ran its own tests. Just because [H] couldn't get first drop on the benchmarks it behaves like a spoilt brat, tossing bricks every which way and saying that ATI and NVidia are equal.

And what's with running timedemos instead of proper run-throughs (physics, AI etc. included). [H] is supposed to be trailing a blaze. Laziness and the desire to jump on the benchmarking bandwagon means that [H] is now happy just posting timedemo results. Lame.

Set the quality to the highest, run the "realworld" game instead of timedemo, and stop acting like a spoilt 5 year old towards DH. You might just get back some respect.

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Old Nov 17, 2004, 07:48 AM   #2
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Well, when it's obviously CPU-limited in a time-demo, it's only going to be more CPU-limited if you have AI and other processing going on too. You might, of course, wonder whether a benchmark that's almost entirely CPU-limited is of any value in determining which graphics card runs the game better...
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 09:13 AM   #3
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ATI Technologies

They kind of had to do a timedemo, there's really no other way to measure tit for tat performance. I think their reasoning was that it also gives the CPU less stuff to do, which may or may not be correct. Either way, the method they used wasn't bad.

nVidia has pretty much always been a better polygon pusher when you're looking at raw processing and an easy render. But when it comes to actually working hard, the X800-XT PE comes out on top, even according to their benchmarks.

At 1024x768, X800-XT PE comes out on top when you bump it up to 4X AA.

And then thay say that it is "interesting" that the X800-XT PE whooped all the other cards at 1600x1200, regardless of the AA and AF. And we can all guess why they didn't run the benchmarks at full water detail, full AA and full AF. They say that it doesn't matter beacuse the FX still gives you playable framerates....
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 09:16 AM   #4
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Oh no, what will we ever do. Hardocp didnt turn on something, that means they suck!

What a joke.

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Old Nov 17, 2004, 09:22 AM   #5
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Quote:
Hardocp didnt turn on something, that means they suck!
So you think that a CPU-limited benchmark is a good test of graphics card performance?
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 09:23 AM   #6
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I dont think anything, because i'm playing the game not pissing about numbers. Maybe instead of whining here you can email Kyle or Steve and ask them the reasoning behind it, and maybe, just maybe if you whine enough they will enable it!
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 09:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
I dont think anything
Well, I'm glad you said that...

Quote:
because i'm playing the game not pissing about numbers.
Then why post on this thread? Go back to playing the game.

Quote:
you can email Kyle or Steve and ask them the reasoning behind it
There is no reasoning I can see, other than to make nvidia look better: it's retarded for any self-respecting benchmarker to publish a graphics card benchmark which is running CPU-limited tests, when you could push up the graphics level to the point where the _graphics card_ will be the limiting factor. But if they do that, the X800 will consistently beat their overclocked nvidia cards.

It's like claiming that a TNT1 is as good as an X800 because both run Doom 1 at 320x200 VGA resolution with the same frame rate...
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 09:45 AM   #8
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I do think it's a rather retarded review. nVidia only wins in the CPU limited parts of their benchmark, and yet they don't want to declare a winner. It's nice that they don't want to play favorites, but if they're gonna review performance, don't give us a conclusion like "if you buy a $600 graphics card then you'll have good framerate so everybody is a winner". That's crap, and I could have told you that.
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 09:52 AM   #9
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Hmmm, I wonder why so many people think Rage3D if full of FanATIcs?
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 10:06 AM   #10
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"One thing we feel compelled to mention is that Half Life 2 is not as forgiving as DOOM 3 in the resolution department. Where DOOM 3 looked decent at 640x480, we found that is not the case with Half Life 2. We found it important to be running some level of anti aliasing, even gaming at 1600x1200 resolution, in order to reduce the distraction of the jaggies. Of course this always comes down to personal preference."

maybe cuz 80% of the game is in total darkness?
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 10:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jawed
Then we get this ******** in this thread accusing Driver Heaven of "simply regurgitating PR drivel":

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=833599

DH ran its own tests. Just because [H] couldn't get first drop on the benchmarks it behaves like a spoilt brat, tossing bricks every which way and saying that ATI and NVidia are equal.

They did just copy the PR slides, jebus! http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19707

Not even game reviewers got the game ahead of time.

So how bout you go grab yourself a big cup O` STFU.
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 10:36 AM   #12
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Tell you the truth i dont go to sites like that i judge the game @ my own experience. I dont need a bunch of people telling me a game sux cause THEY didnt like it. Who the hell are they? I give my own shots around here
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 10:39 AM   #13
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this place is full of retards. probably the worst forums on the net. in fact much worse than the halo 2 forums at ign. everyone knows driverheaven got those slides from ati. see past the hype ati fanboys. silly buggers
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 12:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinsnpies
everyone knows driverheaven got those slides from ati
Really? How do you know that? I've not seen a shred of evidence so far.

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Old Nov 17, 2004, 12:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jawed
Really? How do you know that? I've not seen a shred of evidence so far.

Jawed




lets play what differs.......hmmmmmmm.... NOTHING not one fps, everything EXACTLY the same
I wonder how DH got EXACTLY the same benchmarking computer as ATI
and the idiot used the SAME graphic card comparisons as ATI did HOW MORE CLEAR can it become.
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 12:44 PM   #16
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Talking

ah the silence is deafening
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 12:55 PM   #17
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dh = pwned
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 01:02 PM   #18
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Okay everyone is assuming that DriverHeaven got the numbers from ATI...

Who's to say it wasn't the other way around? Anyway, even [H] shows that ATI pulls ahead when not CPU limited, so what's the big deal?? All they really proved was that it's also playable on nVIdia hardware. That's wonderful. Like I said, I could have told you that.
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 01:19 PM   #19
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Those graphs are the same are they? No they're not. Zardon says that his and ATI's results are similar - but they are definitely not the same.

Ur blind. Sad.

So, come up with some real evidence that DH is using ATi's numbers.

Your blindness or inability to count is no argument.
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 01:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestorm_ATI
Okay everyone is assuming that DriverHeaven got the numbers from ATI...

Who's to say it wasn't the other way around? Anyway, even [H] shows that ATI pulls ahead when not CPU limited, so what's the big deal?? All they really proved was that it's also playable on nVIdia hardware. That's wonderful. Like I said, I could have told you that.
yeah the x800xt pe is better than gf6800u in hl2 no one would be stupid enough to deny that but not by 60% like Ati reports and the x800pro IS NOT better than a gf6800u that just BIASED benchmarks like the nvidias first doom 3 benches.
Anandtech has what I see like real life benches of hl2:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2278&p=1
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 01:32 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jawed
Those graphs are the same are they? No they're not. Zardon says that his and ATI's results are similar - but they are definitely not the same.

Ur blind. Sad.

So, come up with some real evidence that DH is using ATi's numbers.

Your blindness or inability to count is no argument.
Jawed
not the same? how can you even deny that they are not the same when you can blindly see it...
he compares THE EXACTLY SAME CARDS as ATI, he has EXACTLY the same results as ATI, his and ati's results are the ONLY ones that differ from anyone elses benchmarks. And how could he use the EXACT same computer as ATI did if he justused his own? thats impossible to get that similer results you must have the exact same hardware and software.
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 01:34 PM   #22
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there is a lot of ownage in this thread, I give it 5 stars. This is like Kerry crying all over again.
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 01:46 PM   #23
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The thought of ATIHeaven, err I mean DriverHeaven being a creditable source for fair benchmarks is laughable.

40% faster my ( )( )
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 02:10 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy
not the same? how can you even deny that they are not the same when you can blindly see it...
he compares THE EXACTLY SAME CARDS as ATI, he has EXACTLY the same results as ATI, his and ati's results are the ONLY ones that differ from anyone elses benchmarks. And how could he use the EXACT same computer as ATI did if he justused his own? thats impossible to get that similer results you must have the exact same hardware and software.
Blimey you're stupid as well as blind. If you use the same spec hardware and the same benchmarks then you bloody well should get practically the same results.

The fact they're actually slightly different proves that neither copied the other.

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=161

I still can't understand why all the benchmarks are being done with Reflect World not All. What's the point in that?

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Old Nov 17, 2004, 02:13 PM   #25
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Motion to ban Jawed from life for sub-human IQ levels. All in favor say "Aye."

Aye.

It should be noted that Anandtech also used Reflect World, not all, and recorded it's own benchmarks.
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 02:16 PM   #26
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Nay

How about we ban your ass?

Aye
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 02:31 PM   #27
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Looks like [H] added maximum eye candy results to their first set.
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 02:35 PM   #28
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Ban Jawed? Keep dreaming!
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Old Nov 17, 2004, 02:37 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dryars
Looks like [H] added maximum eye candy results to their first set.
Still with Reflect World. With the large areas of water and enemies in some of these demos you'd have thought using the best quality for reflections was relevant.

I can't watch the [H], ATI and Anandtech demos yet cos I'm still waiting for my HL-2 to turn up.

All [H] did was use 6xAA and 8xAA. Pretty pointless as neither variety of card has directly comparable settings. Super sampling AA on NVidia is just too much work (in comparison with MSAA: 6x or 4x) to be a useful comparison point.

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Old Nov 17, 2004, 04:09 PM   #30
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LoL, people are so feisty. If you actually read what I said, "ban from life" != "ban from forums" or "ban from forums for life"

I realize that Jawed has the same right to post that I or anyone else here does and do not wish to see his opinion oppressed. That said I still cannot see how he can defend DH. The numbers are the same. The demos are in reverse order. If someone would take the time to slap the numbers into power point the graphs would be identical. I'd do it but I don't have Office. If M$ didn't charge and arm and a leg maybe everyone could own it. But I digress. The fact that DH states that they have been playing with HL2 for about a week further diminishes their credibility as only one of the following could be true:

A) They have a pirated copy. I see this as highly unlikely.

B) Valve saw fit to give DH a one week exclusive on HL2 and no-one else. The likely hood of the sun going nova in the next 5mins is greater than this.

C) They are lying. Most likely though I personally wouldn't risk it if it were my site.
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