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Old Nov 5, 2020, 02:46 PM   #451
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Nunz
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If it's faster at 1080p it would be faster at 1440p or 4K if the GPU was not the limit. I don't know how this isn't common knowledge by now.

Your 8086K is not a limiting factor at 1440P (5% worst case scenario) and certainly not at 4K in any game besides very, very few that are purely CPU or very unoptimized. You already know the answer is that upgrading the CPU is a waste of money unless you just want to get on a new platform.

Make your own decision on whether spending all this money to go over to a new platform is worth it or not. There's plenty of reviews available to make that call.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 02:46 PM   #452
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I'm not trying to make any argument, I simply pointed out that techpowerup shows the 9900K as being within 1% of the 5900X at all resolutions tested and it's two years old and costs $150 less. These are facts as well as I can tell.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 02:50 PM   #453
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Originally Posted by Nunz View Post
If it's faster at 1080p it would be faster at 1440p or 4K if the GPU was not the limit. I don't know how this isn't common knowledge by now.

Your 8086K is not a limiting factor at 1440P (5% worst case scenario) and certainly not at 4K in any game besides very, very few that are purely CPU or very unoptimized. You already know the answer is that upgrading the CPU is a waste of money unless you just want to get on a new platform.

Make your own decision on whether spending all this money to go over to a new platform is worth it or not. There's plenty of reviews available to make that call.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 03:42 PM   #454
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I'm not trying to make any argument, I simply pointed out that techpowerup shows the 9900K as being within 1% of the 5900X at all resolutions tested and it's two years old and costs $150 less. These are facts as well as I can tell.
At 4k, yes. But that's because CPUs are not able to be fully utilized because of the GPU bottleneck.

That doesn't make Ryzen 5000 "no faster than a 2 year old 9900k". It's faster in literally everything. It'd be faster in 4k aswell if there was a GPU fast enough to get it to that point.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 03:46 PM   #455
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Actually no, games are not bottlenecked by the GPU at 720P and 1080P and the OC 5900X doesn't beat the non OC 9900K at those resolutions. If they overclocked the 9900K it would cleanly beat the 5900X at all resolution other than 4K because of the GPU bottleneck. Like I said, techpowerup shows the 9900K within 1% at all resolution's benchmarked, not just 4k.

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Old Nov 5, 2020, 03:46 PM   #456
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I'm interested in a 5950x. Mainly because I have to build a new computer for on of my kiddos and I'd give my 9900k to the oldest, give his to the littlest, and keep the 5950x for myself.

I like the thermals a lot. I also like the workload levels. I game too so that looks nice.

Now to just find one......
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 03:58 PM   #457
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What's the point of having a store then? Maybe I don't want to sit playing the F5 game all day. There's plenty of options already if you want to do that.
Brother, what's wrong with an EVGA style queue system? Did you really enjoy your time camping out outside MC hoping that the product you wanted may be in today's truck?
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 04:00 PM   #458
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Your 8086K is not a limiting factor at 1440P (5% worst case scenario) and certainly not at 4K in any game besides very, very few that are purely CPU or very unoptimized. You already know the answer is that upgrading the CPU is a waste of money unless you just want to get on a new platform.
This!

Next year though I might do it just for the F of it.... say July.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 04:05 PM   #459
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Originally Posted by Nunz View Post
If it's faster at 1080p it would be faster at 1440p or 4K if the GPU was not the limit. I don't know how this isn't common knowledge by now.

Your 8086K is not a limiting factor at 1440P (5% worst case scenario) and certainly not at 4K in any game besides very, very few that are purely CPU or very unoptimized. You already know the answer is that upgrading the CPU is a waste of money unless you just want to get on a new platform.

Make your own decision on whether spending all this money to go over to a new platform is worth it or not. There's plenty of reviews available to make that call.
I really think too many overspend on their CPU for gaming. If you want a better gaming experience you should be pushing higher res like 1440P or 4K where you're more likely than not GPU limited.

Also, I'll say again to anyone who will listen (probably nobody) that uber expensive memory is not worth the premium. These are the reasons why:
  • If you buy 3600 CL15, it can already do 3600 CL14 with a little more voltage. A lot of the higher rated kits simply have a higher rated voltage, which makes them appear better than they really are. (TridentZ Neo 3600 CL14 is set to run at 1.45v, $50 less Tridentz 3600 CL15 can do that if you just set the voltage up to 1.45v manually. You're basically paying for them to overclock the sticks for you.)
  • CL 14-15-15 is not actually a full step improvement over CL 15-15-15, it's like a half step improvement since the secondaries are still 15.
  • On top of that, even if those are actually better bins, by the time you set your timings with Ryzen DRAM calculator, you're simply not going to see more than 1% gain (in my testing often less than 0.5%) by having your CL set 1 tighter and all else equal. The difference slightly tighter CL makes is very, very small, and it is simply not worth spending the extra $50 for such a negligible gain. You will literally never even be able to notice the difference in actual use.
  • If you buy an uber memory kit and run it at XMP, you'll likely get worse performance than if you buy a cheap kit and manually tune the timings. So downloading Ryzen DRAM Calc and tweaking is a must, regardless of what memory you buy. The subtimings actually make a substantial difference in memory performance, especially TRFC, and the stock XMP settings are abysmal.

Last edited by Nagorak : Nov 5, 2020 at 04:23 PM.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 04:20 PM   #460
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Actually no, games are not bottlenecked by the GPU at 720P and 1080P and the OC 5900X doesn't beat the non OC 9900K at those resolutions. If they overclocked the 9900K it would cleanly beat the 5900X at all resolution other than 4K because of the GPU bottleneck. Like I said, techpowerup shows the 9900K within 1% at all resolution's benchmarked, not just 4k.
Please show me where the 9900k is within 1% at 1080P of a 5900X.

EDIT**** You aren't going off their relative performance scale are you? Because by that metric a I3 10300 is only 5% slower than a 5900X or 10900k.

Their relative performance is a garbage tool. Always has been.

Coincidently they also don't benchmark any other games outside that just magically work in intel's favor. Amazing how other review sites show 5900X 20% + faster in some games, but surprise! Techpowerup doesn't have those in there.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 04:25 PM   #461
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And take note that the 9900K isn't overclocked which you could easily look up a 9900K review to see OC vs non OC performance that would show it gaining anywhere from 10 to 20% depending on the game. The 5900X is actually slower when it's overclocked vs when it's not.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 04:29 PM   #462
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Please look at my edit, I figured out where you were comparing. And I'm not surprised. Read my edit, and respond accordingly don't condemn yourself in your own post.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 04:31 PM   #463
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Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
I really think too many overspend on their CPU for gaming. If you want a better gaming experience you should be pushing higher res like 1440P or 4K where you're more likely than not GPU limited.

Also, I'll say again to anyone who will listen (probably nobody) that uber expensive memory is not worth the premium. These are the reasons why:
  • If you buy 3600 CL15, it can already do 3600 CL14 with a little more voltage. A lot of the higher rated kits simply have a higher rated voltage, which makes them appear better than they really are. (TridentZ Neo 3600 CL14 is set to run at 1.45v, $50 less Tridentz 3600 CL15 can do that if you just set the voltage up to 1.45v manually. You're basically paying for them to overclock the sticks for you.)
  • CL 14-15-15 is not actually a full step improvement over CL 15-15-15, it's like a half step improvement since the secondaries are still 15.
  • On top of that, even if those are actually better bins, by the time you set your timings with Ryzen DRAM calculator, you're simply not going to see more than 1% gain (in my testing often less than 0.5%) by having your CL set 1 tighter and all else equal. The difference slightly tighter CL makes is very, very small, and it is simply not worth spending the extra $50 for such a negligible gain. You will literally never even be able to notice the difference in actual use.
  • If you buy an uber memory kit and run it at XMP, you'll likely get worse performance than if you buy a cheap kit and manually tune the timings. So downloading Ryzen DRAM Calc and tweaking is a must, regardless of what memory you buy. The subtimings actually make a substantial difference in memory performance, especially TRFC, and the stock XMP settings are abysmal.
Same thing with monitors, you'll see people with even modest 1k rigs with 60hz 1080p screens.

It's like... Why? If anything, monitor, and periphals should always be your biggest expense. They are your inputs to what you are actually spending on. Its like buying a home for a gorgeous view of the mountains, but having no windows in the home.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 04:35 PM   #464
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Then your problem is with techpowerup and not me. CPU performance moves at a snails pace. Those charts show the stock 9900K being about 5% faster than a 3900X which is the same conclusion that hardware unboxed came to with their 3900X review. The 5900X is about 5% faster than the 3900X when it comes to gaming which puts in on par with the stock 9900K. It looks fine to me.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 04:37 PM   #465
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Originally Posted by the_sextein View Post
Then your problem is with techpowerup and not me. CPU performance moves at a snails pace. Those charts show the stock 9900K being about 5% faster than a 3900X which is the same conclusion that hardware unboxed came to with their 3900X review. The 5900X is about 5% faster than the 3900X when it comes to gaming which puts in on par with the stock 9900K. It looks fine to me.
Funny then how they don't include something like this. You can't call something 'relative games performance' if it's not entirely truthful. It's relevent to just their restricted benchmarks, making people like you thinking it's within 1%. I only need to show one benchmark that would destroy their entire lineup of games showing "1%". Imagine if we added all of them?

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Old Nov 5, 2020, 04:44 PM   #466
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And take note that the 9900K isn't overclocked which you could easily look up a 9900K review to see OC vs non OC performance that would show it gaining anywhere from 10 to 20% depending on the game. The 5900X is actually slower when it's overclocked vs when it's not.
Look at that 5600X at $300

The 5600X is a steal!
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 04:47 PM   #467
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It's the reason TechPowerUp hasn't been relevant in years. Their reporting, and reviews have been garbage. Only income they get are from the product they receive. I don't even remember the last time they truthfully gave a bad review.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 04:47 PM   #468
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Good point, anand's results look drastically different. Some of their benchmarks show the 2700X beating a 10900K which is odd but I consider anandtech a decent enough site for benchmarking. I think I'll wait for Gamer's Nexus and hardware unboxed to officially review the 5900X before jumping to any conclusions. My original reaction was assuming the 5900X would carry over the 5950's gaming performance and so I was pretty happy for AMD but techpowerup's results didn't look that way. Anand's results look more in line with what I was expecting of the 5900X after seeing the 5950's review. I would be much more satisfied with where AMD is right now if the 5900X were at least 10% faster than my 2 year old setup. Otherwise things will never improve.

Tom's hardware is showing about 10FPS advantage to the 5900X vs an OC 10900K across all resolutions. That's about 8% faster and probably beat my old setup by 10%. If that's the case then AMD has at least pushed gaming forward which is a great thing for us gamers.

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Old Nov 5, 2020, 07:41 PM   #469
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Look at all the scalped AMD processors on eBay. Buying tech this year sucks. Unless you enjoy F5'ing for weeks on end.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 07:46 PM   #470
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Look at all the scalped AMD processors on eBay. Buying tech this year sucks. Unless you enjoy F5'ing for weeks on end.
As much as I enjoy camping out outside a MC for hours at a time in the hopes I can get what I want.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 08:23 PM   #471
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I'd love to grab a 5950X but I can't justify the costs of the cpu, motherboard and RAM to stick to DDR4 and move away from a decent system I already have.


If DDR5 was out, that would tip the scale for an upgrade for me.


I'll hold off an upgrade until DDR5 comes out. By then perhaps games will want to use more than 8 cores any way, making the upgrade slightly more worth while.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 08:29 PM   #472
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honestly the 5600x is the new budget king for gaming imo.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 08:32 PM   #473
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Originally Posted by Gandalfthewhite View Post
honestly the 5600x is the new budget king for gaming imo.
No doubt.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 08:34 PM   #474
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Looks like the 5600x is the new 3600. Lot of bang for your buck there.

Impressive numbers all round.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 08:35 PM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalfthewhite View Post
honestly the 5600x is the new budget king for gaming imo.
If your gaming, to me it seems like the only logical choice as all you have to do is look at the benches and it stays with all the big boys at $300. Yes its only 6 cores but it sure doesn't seem to be bothering gaming at the moment. And by the time it does you will probably be moving on to something else anyways.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 08:43 PM   #476
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I can't get behind the thought of buying a 6 core cpu. At the very least, get 8. If you upgrade your cpu every year...sure, it won't matter a bit. But I also don't know why people do that these days. My last CPU lasted a little over 8 years.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 09:14 PM   #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverclockN' View Post
I can't get behind the thought of buying a 6 core cpu. At the very least, get 8. If you upgrade your cpu every year...sure, it won't matter a bit. But I also don't know why people do that these days. My last CPU lasted a little over 8 years.
Not worth the extra $150 looking at all the scores in games. But I know what your saying, I wanted no less then 8 as well, but then I saw that it isnt doing nothing much for your game performance right now and probably wont for a few years.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 10:12 PM   #478
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Looks good but I'm still going to hold on next year when hopefully DDR5 support comes out.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 10:23 PM   #479
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Seems like all people here are not buying the new AMD. I am still wondering.

It is like $1000 for 5-8 FPS gain in best case scenario. That is about 125 to 200 bucks per FPS. Seems helluva stupid. I should just get another 3090 then instead.
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Old Nov 5, 2020, 10:45 PM   #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne0Griever View Post
Looks good but I'm still going to hold on next year when hopefully DDR5 support comes out.
Yeah but new socket, new very expensive ddr5 ram, new pcie5 bus... thats a recipe for buggy hw and drivers at least for the first gen.

Im gonna wait for RKL to match, or barely scrape by amd, and drop prices on the 5000's and grab me a deal on a combo. The perf over this 1700x is immense.
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