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Old Oct 8, 2020, 05:01 PM   #211
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Old Oct 8, 2020, 05:29 PM   #212
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I'm looking forward to seeing these put through the benches. It looks like a good product to me. It's not real exciting in terms of game performance for someone like myself who owns a [email protected] 5Ghz all core but in terms of best product for your money at the moment it looks like it's going to deliver. Similar gaming performance with better multi threading performance with less power draw and PCIE 4.0 support which could come in handy during this platform's life.

I was hoping they would clean sweep Intel in gaming but it looks pretty close. 20% IPC improvement puts them about on par with an all core overclocked Intel CPU on 14nm.
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Old Oct 8, 2020, 11:01 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllexxisF1 View Post
Interesting.

The cost uplift of $50 bucs isn't much of a thing because their always sales and the price always comes down.

Surprised they didn't hit 5Ghz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight View Post
People who are bitching about the $50 price increase need to learn about inflation and economics.
It's more like $150 for the 8 core SKU because there is no 5700X launching, and $100 for the 6 core because there is no 3600 non-X. When you look at it like that it's a pretty substantial price increase.

Personally I think they're pushing the prices a little too much. Maybe later they drop a 3700X that offers better value, but these are pretty premium priced.

I guess if AMD can command higher prices then more power to them, but it certainly discourages me from upgrading from either my i7 8700K or Ryzen 3700X system. At this point it would actually be a better upgrade for me to buy a newly reduced price 9900K since I don't need a new board, but even that is suspect since the extra two cores don't do a whole lot in gaming most of the time. I guess it's a good excuse to save myself some money, but more importantly save myself the hassle of upgrading.

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Old Oct 8, 2020, 11:05 PM   #214
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Need to see them benches at 1440P gaming to even attempt this. Either way none of us are getting this in November.
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Old Oct 8, 2020, 11:07 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
It's more like $150 for the 8 core SKU because there is no 5700X launching, and $100 for the 6 core because there is no 3600 non-X. When you look at it like that it's a pretty substantial price increase.

I guess if AMD can command higher prices then more power to them, but it certainly discourages me from upgrading from my i7 8700K or Ryzen 3700X system.
No, the 5800x replaces the 3800x. Just because they chose not to sku a 5700x or 5700 doesn't change that fact. The only thing you have to bitch about is them not having the 5700 or 5700x sku, which has nothing to do with the price of the 5800x.
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Old Oct 8, 2020, 11:10 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight View Post
No, the 5800x replaces the 3800x. Just because they chose not to sku a 5700x or 5700 doesn't change that fact. You are bitching just to bitch.
But there is still the problem of going from a $300 price point to $450. Meanwhile there is a 10700k at $350 that out performs both, or at the very least, matches the 5800k. A 10700k is basically a 10900k in terms of FPS, there's very few fps difference, and in some games, they are identical. When you OC since less cores, the 10700k actually sometimes out performs the 10900k clock per clock.

We are just discussing this, with how adamant and direct you are. I've actually lost alot of respect for you as an established member.
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Old Oct 8, 2020, 11:11 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight View Post
No, the 5800x replaces the 3800x. Just because they chose not to sku a 5700x or 5700 doesn't change that fact. You are bitching just to bitch.
The 3800X was nearly a total waste of money though, as was the 3600X, so they effectively dropped the most economical SKUs forcing people up the pricing stack.

Also why shouldn't I complain about higher prices? Why should I be happy about it? I don't understand why some of you guys seem to be eager to shell out more money? Like thanks for raising prices! What sense does that make?
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Old Oct 8, 2020, 11:14 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CurrentlyPissed View Post
But there is still the problem of going from a $300 price point to $450. Meanwhile there is a 10700k at $350 that out performs both, or at the very least, matches the 5800k.
It does? it out performs the 5800x? Can you direct me to where those benchmarks numbers for the 5800x where given, as the only ones I saw where for the 5900x and 5950x.

Or Are you going off on your OC BS again, and assuming you know the performance of the 5800x when no numbers where given?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
The 3800X was nearly a total waste of money though, as was the 3600X, so they effectively dropped the most economical SKUs forcing people up the pricing stack.

Also why shouldn't I complain about higher prices? Why should I be happy about it? I don't understand why some of you guys seem to be eager to shell out more money? Like thanks for raising prices! What sense does that make?
How the hell do you think people get raises as the cost of living goes up? sometimes it baffles me just how little people understand economics sometimes.

I have a 3800x, and my son has the 3600x, neither of us feel like it was a waste of money. Granted I got mine for the same cost as a 3700x. I know my son chose the 3600x because he isn't into over clocking or manually messing with settings in the bios. Each to their own to determine what is a waste of money to them.
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Old Oct 8, 2020, 11:33 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight View Post
How the hell do you think people get raises as the cost of living goes up? sometimes it baffles me just how little people understand economics sometimes.

I have a 3800x, and my son has the 3600x, neither of us feel like it was a waste of money. Granted I got mine for the same cost as a 3700x. I know my son chose the 3600x because he isn't into over clocking or manually messing with settings in the bios. Each to their own to determine what is a waste of money to them.
There's been 1.7% inflation since the 3000 series was released, not 50%. I'm not even going to argue with you about the relative value of 3800X/3600X because the reviews all speak for themselves.

You're right you can spend whatever money you want on whatever you want. You can light $100 bills on fire if it floats your boat.

The point is this time those who didn't want to spend money on the higher SKUs aren't being given that option, which is the issue you are dancing around. If you drop the lower SKUs it results in a larger effective price increase. It doesn't matter if YOU would have bought the higher SKU anyway, because others would not have.

Anyway, I'm not going to waste any more time going back and forth about this, so you're welcome to put in the last word.
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Old Oct 8, 2020, 11:40 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
There's been 1.7% inflation since the 3000 series was released, not 50%. I'm not even going to argue with you about the relative value of 3800X/3600X because the reviews all speak for themselves.

You're right you can spend whatever money you want on whatever you want. You can light $100 bills on fire if it floats your boat.

The point is this time those who didn't want to spend money on the higher SKUs aren't being given that option, which is the issue you are dancing around. If you drop the lower SKUs it results in a larger effective price increase. It doesn't matter if YOU would have bought the higher SKU anyway, because others would not have.

Anyway, I'm not going to waste any more time going back and forth about this, so you're welcome to put in the last word.
How the hell does $50 increase equal 50% increase? lay off the sauce buddy. ($399 to $449 does not equal 50% increase) How do you expect AMD to pay for all the R&D that goes into all the advancements they have made the last 3 years, and to continue such a trend if they don't change pricing? You also are ignoring all the extra costs that nearly EVERY business has this year due to COVID-19. As I said, it baffles me the amount of people who don't understand economics, or how everything effects businesses and the end prices. There is more than just inflation that effects prices. Let me ask you this, does a 3% cost of living raise only cost the company 3% more? (the answer is no, it cost the company much more) BTW cost of living and inflation are two different things. Both effect the price of the end products.

I'm didn't dance around the issue of not being offered those sku's. I already said that is the only thing you have to bitch about, but it has NOTHING to do with trying to compare the prices of the 3700 or 3700x prices to the price of the 5800x, as the 5800x is the direct replacement of the 3800x, not the 3700 or the 3700x. The 3700/3700x sku/line is discontinued it seems. You are pissed because you are forced to buy the higher sku, but that isn't a price increase of the same sku, different subject and argument.

It doesn't matter if YOU didn't buy the higher sku, because others did. See what I did there. Your argument is only valid for your own personal choices. Get over it!
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Old Oct 9, 2020, 12:02 AM   #221
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I think 5700X and other fillers will be released when AMD clears 3xxx stock.

And I assume AMD is priced as it is to get the profits scalpers have been reaping on there big releases.

Prices are going drop nicely a few months after release when the lower filler lines come out and the old 3 stock is cleared
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Old Oct 9, 2020, 12:13 AM   #222
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I think we know these prices are just for the EAT tax crowd. Intel will drop prices and then drop new cpus in the new year and so will amd... We really needed some competition and now we have it so let amd make some $ early days then let the competition finally drive prices down.

This will be good for the industry and consumers and not just drive prices to moderate, now that both have good architectures, but we can see them push them harder than before, vs the 5% a year thing we had with grossly overpriced intel for 10 years.

For amd to have this much of an uplift without a node change or a clock boost is singularly impressive. The most impressive launch since the orginal athlon.

I can only imagine what the 5nm ryzen 6k will be like.
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Old Oct 9, 2020, 12:54 AM   #223
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These are looking great
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Old Oct 9, 2020, 05:58 AM   #224
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So you gays think 5900X is a sizeable upgrade and no need to wait for Skylake?
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Old Oct 9, 2020, 06:04 AM   #225
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Without seeing legit benchmarks, I can only speculate that yes, it looks pretty good so far.
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Old Oct 9, 2020, 07:06 AM   #226
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I was watching Linus last night and I believe he mentioned that Skylake will still be 14na?

Is that true?
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Old Oct 9, 2020, 07:54 AM   #227
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I was watching Linus last night and I believe he mentioned that Skylake will still be 14na?

Is that true?
Do you mean Rocket Lake? Supposedly 14nm with a 10nm IGP chiplet.
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Old Oct 9, 2020, 08:35 AM   #228
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I'm really hoping the single thread performance is TRULY a sizable jump from anything previous.
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Old Oct 9, 2020, 05:03 PM   #229
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Looks like people with 4xx series boards will have to wait until January for 5xxx support.

Great news, that increases my chance for actually being able to buy a 5xxx series cpu.

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Old Oct 9, 2020, 05:58 PM   #230
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Where are the x670 boards? Has it been scrapped?
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Old Oct 9, 2020, 06:11 PM   #231
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Where are the x670 boards? Has it been scrapped?
For now no x670. Most likely for Zen 4.
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Old Oct 9, 2020, 06:16 PM   #232
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Old Oct 9, 2020, 11:04 PM   #233
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Old Oct 10, 2020, 01:30 AM   #234
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Did AMD troll us on the SOTTR bench? I get 143 FPS at high preset with SOTTR and doing not much of an overclock (4.8 and 2080 at Super speeds).

Meanwhile this chart shows the delta a good CPU and GPU can make to the bench.



The test setup is even better than mine and if AMD was using anything like a AMD 6000 series card in there 141 and 181 doesn't seem like much. What do you gays think? Btw TUP is using highest in game settings whereas, AMD ran high only.
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Old Oct 10, 2020, 05:24 AM   #235
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It seems to me that the 5900X is reasonably priced. If I were upgrading I'd go for that. The other SKUs I'm still just not seeing it versus other options. Ironic that Intel may end up being the better value option next gen.

I guess AMD is thinking that no matter what the CPUs are going to sell out, so why not raise prices? I suppose it might make sense if they're supply constrained. But I wonder then if they're just going to abandon the lower end entirely and focus everything on the high end? Maybe Ryzen 3000 fills the gap right now?
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Old Oct 10, 2020, 06:32 AM   #236
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I'm thinking the 5800x might be better as a gaming chip than the 5900x, with all cores on a single CCX.
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Old Oct 10, 2020, 12:49 PM   #237
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I'm thinking the 5800x might be better as a gaming chip than the 5900x, with all cores on a single CCX.
Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how much the cache difference effects the performance.
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Old Oct 10, 2020, 04:34 PM   #238
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Yes exactly. The 3300x seems to be proof that having all cores on a single CCX dramatically reduces latency and increases gaming performance.

The 5900x is basically 2 defective CCX's with 6 cores in each (same as a single 5600x CCX), and slightly cut down (defective also?) cache.

Where as the 5800x and 5950x are both using fully functional CCX's of 8 cores each, which both have access to the full amount of cache.
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Old Oct 10, 2020, 09:17 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demo View Post
Yes exactly. The 3300x seems to be proof that having all cores on a single CCX dramatically reduces latency and increases gaming performance.

The 5900x is basically 2 defective CCX's with 6 cores in each (same as a single 5600x CCX), and slightly cut down (defective also?) cache.

Where as the 5800x and 5950x are both using fully functional CCX's of 8 cores each, which both have access to the full amount of cache.
Why does it matter if the ccx is defective? The 5900x will just have 2 cores disabled in each ccx. All the cores will still get access to the full amount of cache.
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Old Oct 10, 2020, 09:22 PM   #240
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these are not the only 5xxx series chips we will see. They just upped the ccx core density that is going to hit yields at least somewhat so they are running high margin products first to make up for any yield loss as they iron out the design. I would expect a January - February announcement of lower product stack though given the ccx complex core density I dont know if they would bother going below 6 cores at this point it just doesn't really make sense unless you are having some REALLY bad defect rates.
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