Official 6x00 Stock Thread(or lack thereof) - Page 29

pax · Jan 21, 2022, 01:04 PM

Yeah I mean prices went up today even as crypto drops... just dont know what to think about this anymore. Seems theres no end to it AFAICS.

bill dennison · Jan 21, 2022, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pax

If you're willing to spend 2000$ CAD or more for one Id wait for the 6 nm models coming out in the spring... Course if that happens it might mean the 5nm 7000 gen might be that further away.

https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-rx-6000-...-refresh-2022/

i bet any refresh will still be the same 7nm and won't delay RDNA 3

they need to get RDNA 3 out before lovelace this time

Sasquach · Jan 21, 2022, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dennison

i bet any refresh will still be the same 7nm and won't delay RDNA 3

they need to get RDNA 3 out before lovelace this time

That shouldnt be a problem considering nvidia needs to find a way to source arc reactors from Tony Stark in order to power its GPU's.

LordHawkwind · Jan 21, 2022, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill dennison

i bet any refresh will still be the same 7nm and won't delay RDNA 3

they need to get RDNA 3 out before lovelace this time

bill you seem wedded to this MCM chiplet thing. I've been there and got the tee shirt with AMD. Fury with HBM, Vega with all those great features that never got enabled. AMD are a small player in the dGPU market.

They're more concerned with CPU's & consoles so what real resources are going to be deployed to a new MCM GPU. Feel free to comment but remember I've been there for a decade so even if you loathe me I try to tell it as it is from my AMD perspective which is more than yours.

**acroig** · Jan 21, 2022, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasquach

That shouldnt be a problem considering nvidia needs to find a way to source arc reactors from Tony Stark in order to power its GPU's.

bill dennison · Jan 21, 2022, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordHawkwind

bill you seem wedded to this MCM chiplet thing. I've been there and got the tee shirt with AMD. Fury with HBM, Vega with all those great features that never got enabled. AMD are a small player in the dGPU market.

They're more concerned with CPU's & consoles so what real resources are going to be deployed to a new MCM GPU. Feel free to comment but remember I've been there for a decade so even if you loathe me I try to tell it as it is from my AMD perspective which is more than yours.

i had a ATI Mach 8 & 32 and 64 with a AMD 386 & 486 that is 3 decades... newbie

i liked my Fury x's in CFX good cards for the time

i didn't buy Vega and most here recommended against doing so
i got a 1080 ti Strix and then a 2080 ti Strix didn't go back to AMD gpu till now with the 6900 xt

don't give me crap because you chose poorly with AMD

as for MCM Chiplets

Intel and NV and AMD are wedded to this MCM chiplet thing

AMD is just first

**Trunks0** · Jan 21, 2022, 05:28 PM

Easy guys. No need to call out peoples GPU purchases. Chills

**acroig** · Jan 21, 2022, 06:15 PM

Please don't get Trunks angry, you won't like him when he's angry.

Have we ever seen him angry?

KAC · Jan 21, 2022, 09:45 PM

Damn Amazon has a 6900xt nitro for 1000$. Don’t know why but I want it lol.

Crawdaddy79 · Jan 21, 2022, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAC

Damn Amazon has a 6900xt nitro for 1000$. Don’t know why but I want it lol.

Gonna call BS on that shiznit.

KAC · Jan 21, 2022, 10:11 PM

Crawdaddy79 · Jan 21, 2022, 10:13 PM

I'm pretty sure you should scalp that.

Same listing here.

KAC · Jan 21, 2022, 10:14 PM

Nobody buys a Radeon in UAE. Probably will end up losing money on it.

badsykes · Jan 22, 2022, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAC

Damn Amazon has a 6900xt nitro for 1000$. Don’t know why but I want it lol.

You got a full fledge AMD rig and now you want an AMD gpu ....
WOW ....... BIG

LordHawkwind · Jan 22, 2022, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trunks0

Easy guys. No need to call out peoples GPU purchases. Chills

Sorry it's just me and bill joking around.

Nascar24 · Jan 26, 2022, 07:14 PM

Maybe things will begin to get better one day soon, Microcenter is finally letting you buy a bunch of in stock AMD video cards online now for store pickup. They actually have 25+ of the 6600. Maybe the price will start coming down to normal on some of these cards.

**Trunks0** · Jan 27, 2022, 01:50 AM

The 6600 XT variant is about 2080 non-super non-ti level performance. So if your in 1080p land you can max out most games and get decent frame-rates before optimizing the settings to get more. Add a dash of RSR wherever you want soon and it's not half-bad for today's insanity.

I'm bias however, I have a 6600XT and love it. Been a great upgrade from the R9 Fury

**acroig** · Jan 27, 2022, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trunks0

The 6600 XT variant is about 2080 non-super non-ti level performance. So if your in 1080p land you can max out most games and get decent frame-rates before optimizing the settings to get more. Add a dash of RSR wherever you want soon and it's not half-bad for today's insanity.

So you're saying in can do 720p B&W pretty well then?

Sasquach · Jan 27, 2022, 09:04 AM

I went to check on availability on 6600/6600XT

Was able to pick up a 6600 non XT, not my preferred but this ****'s expensive.

I basically said screw it and got it just cuz it was available.

i hope my timing isnt off in terms of availability, and pricing....
If price drops actually do happen sometime in the future it might be like our housing market here in the city where there was a time it did drop but not nearly as much as anyone hoped...then it stabilizes and kind of went up and down from there.....

**acroig** · Jan 27, 2022, 09:43 AM

I dream of a day when you can walk into your favorite retailer and see all cards on inventory at MSRP.

Crawdaddy79 · Jan 27, 2022, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acroig

I dream of a day when you can walk into your favorite retailer and see all cards on inventory at MSRP.

I remember the day I randomly walked into a Best Buy Express inside a mall and walked out with a $399 9700 Pro. One of my favorite days ever. At the time I had no plans to upgrade but seeing that card in person, we were meant to be.

badsykes · Jan 27, 2022, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trunks0

The 6600 XT variant is about 2080 non-super non-ti level performance. So if your in 1080p land you can max out most games and get decent frame-rates before optimizing the settings to get more. Add a dash of RSR wherever you want soon and it's not half-bad for today's insanity.

I'm bias however, I have a 6600XT and love it. Been a great upgrade from the R9 Fury

Don't talk about 1080p in rage3d ... You will be made an outcast...

...Anyway the best card for 1080p is 3070 / 2080ti.You can maxed out everything plus you can play with RTX too with 60 + fps ...

The thing is in RDR2 the difference between 1440p and 1080p is not earth shattering.The average fps on 1080p is 55 fps and in 1440p is 44fps...I was expected a bit more.

**acroig** · Jan 27, 2022, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badsykes

Don't talk about 1080p in rage3d ... You will be made an outcast...

We only talk about 720p B&W here.

badsykes · Jan 27, 2022, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acroig

We only talk about 720p B&W here.

You can't kick an admin aren't you ?

**Trunks0** · Jan 27, 2022, 11:47 AM

I know but both cards handle 1440p ok (My 3840x1080p resolution is roughly in the ballpark of 1440p). You just end up dropping to Mixed High/Ultra instead of Ultra settings to get the same frame rates back up. Like 90+% of the time, you will not notice that difference anyway. It's why optimized settings are a thing.

RTing is another matter. Without DLSS your kinda stuck. It's barely, to not really, usable. With FSR/RSR it becomes usable, but FSR/RSR tech isn't a DLSS. So your making a compromise that might not be worth it for the RT. Especially given that these cards play in 1080p/1440p land and not 4k.

So while they have the feature, they aren't really powerful enough to use it. Which isn't surprising given they are lower tier cards.

**acroig** · Jan 27, 2022, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badsykes

You can't kick an admin aren't you ?

I can kick anyone you want.

badsykes · Jan 27, 2022, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trunks0

I know but both cards handle 1440p ok (My 3840x1080p resolution is roughly in the ballpark of 1440p). You just end up dropping to Mixed High/Ultra instead of Ultra settings to get the same frame rates back up. Like 90+% of the time, you will not notice that difference anyway. It's why optimized settings are a thing.

RTing is another matter. Without DLSS your kinda stuck. It's barely, to not really, usable. With FSR/RSR it becomes usable, but FSR/RSR tech isn't a DLSS. So your making a compromise that might not be worth it for the RT. Especially given that these cards play in 1080p/1440p land and not 4k.

So while they have the feature, they aren't really powerful enough to use it. Which isn't surprising given they are lower tier cards.

In 1920x1080 the 3070 rule them all.In this resolution RT games can be handled without DLSS or FSR.
I give up with RTX.It's a big mixed bag and pain in the butt.There will always be the choince to buy a gpu in 2030 and play the so called "RTX games" from 2021 and 2022 if i want too.I regret i spent so much time convincing myself about this.

Sasquach · Jan 27, 2022, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acroig

I can kick anyone you want.

right in the nuts

**acroig** · Jan 27, 2022, 12:57 PM

@sykes I never want to see Trunks angry, EVER!!!!

**acroig** · Jan 27, 2022, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasquach

right in the nuts

Yep!

Jan 21, 2022, 01:04 PM	#841	Advertisement (Guests Only) Login or Register to remove this ad
pax Rage3D Spammer Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Grand Falls, New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 30,091	Yeah I mean prices went up today even as crypto drops... just dont know what to think about this anymore. Seems theres no end to it AFAICS. __________________

pax's System Specs
Motherboard	GB x370 K7
CPU	AMD 1700x
Graphics	AMD Radeon Vega 64
Memory	16 (2x8) @ 3200
Cooling Solution	CM ML 240
Display	32" Dell S3220DGF 1440p Freesync Premium Pro
Soundcard & Speakers	SB AE5
Hard-Drives	Kingston A2000 1TB NVME
Optical Drives	-
Power Supply	TT Toughpower 750w
Case	TT Versa C22 Snow
Input Devices	Bloody LK 810
Operating System	Win 10 pro
Extra Info	-

bill dennison's System Specs
Motherboard	Asus Zenith Extreme / C8H
CPU	1900x / 3800x
Graphics	ASRock 6900 xt /ASUS 2080 Ti Strix
Memory	32GB /16GB
Cooling Solution	water
Display	LG OLED55CXPUA
Hard-Drives	2 1tb ssd & 2 4tb HD
Power Supply	CORSAIR 1200i/HX1050
Case	CaseLabs MAGNUM TX10-D W/Pedestal
Operating System	windows 10 64b/windows 10 64b

Sasquach's System Specs
Motherboard	Gigabyte MA790FXT-UD5P
CPU	AMD PhenomII X4 955 @ 3.2ghz
Graphics	ATI Radeon HD 5870 branded by Asus
Memory	4GB DDR3 Patriot Viper series low latency
Cooling Solution	Zalman CPS9900LED
Display	Samsung 205BW 21" Widescreen LCD
Soundcard & Speakers	Asus Xonar Xense, Logitech Z5300 5.1, Sennheiser PC350 'xense edition'
Hard-Drives	500gb Seagate Barracuda 7200.12, 500gb Western Digital Caviar Black 7200
Optical Drives	LG Multi Blue Blu ray Writer and DVD Writer/rewriter
Power Supply	PC Power & Cooling Silencer blue 750w
Case	Gigabyte 3d Aurora
Input Devices	MS Mouse/keyboard, Xbox 360 wireless gamepad, Saitek wireless gamepad
Operating System	Windows 7 64bit
Extra Info	This is the Squachbox

LordHawkwind's System Specs
Motherboard	Asus P5n32 SLI
CPU	Core 2 Quad Q6600 @2.7
Graphics	GTX 260
Memory	2gb
Display	HP w228h 22"
Soundcard & Speakers	X-Fi Gamer
Power Supply	700w Thermaltake
Operating System	Win XP 32 & Win 7 64

acroig's System Specs
Motherboard	MSI MAG Z490 Tomahawk
CPU	Intel i9 10900KF @ 5.1GHz
Graphics	EVGA 3080 Ti FTW3 Ultra Gaming
Memory	16 GB Ballistix Elite 3600
Cooling Solution	Corsair H100i
Display	Samsung G7 32"
Soundcard & Speakers	Asus Xonar DGX with Logitech 5.1
Hard-Drives	Samsung 980 1TB + & Toshiba 6TB
Optical Drives	LG DVD-RW
Power Supply	Seasonic - FOCUS PX-850
Case	Cooler Master 932 HAF
Input Devices	Logitech G910 & G520 Hero
Operating System	Win 11 Pro
Extra Info	Logitech G930 headphones

Jan 21, 2022, 05:28 PM	#847
Trunks0 Keeping an open mind Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada Posts: 21,268	Easy guys. No need to call out peoples GPU purchases. Chills __________________ -Trunks0 not speaking for all and if I am wrong I never said it. (plz note that is meant as a joke) System: Asus TUF Gaming X570-Pro - AMD Ryzen 7 5800x - Noctua NH-D15S chromax.Black - 32gb of G.Skill Trident Z NEO - Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD±RW - Samsung 850 Evo 250Gib - 4TiB Seagate - XFX MERC 308 Radeon RX 6600XT - Creative AE-5 Plus - Windows 10 64-bit

Trunks0's System Specs
Motherboard	Asus TUF Gaming X570-Pro
CPU	AMD Ryzen 7 5800x
Graphics	XFX MERC 308 Radeon RX 6600XT
Memory	32gb of G.Skill Trident Z NEO
Cooling Solution	Noctua NH-D15S chromax.Black
Display	49" Samsung CHG90
Soundcard & Speakers	Creative AE-5 Plus, 2.1 Corsair SP2500, HiFiMan HE-5XX
Hard-Drives	Samsung 850 Evo 250Gb, Seagate 4Tb
Optical Drives	Asus DRW-24F1ST 24x
Power Supply	EVGA SuperNOVA G3 750Watt
Case	Silverstone Raven RV02
Input Devices	Razer Blackwidow + Elecom M-HT1URBK
Operating System	Windows 10 64-bit
Extra Info	Oculus Quest 64Gb

Jan 21, 2022, 06:15 PM	#848
acroig Troll SMod Join Date: May 2004 Location: Troll Master of Manchesville Posts: 57,458	Please don't get Trunks angry, you won't like him when he's angry. Have we ever seen him angry? __________________ By your retarded posts i can only conclude you haven't been spanked enough. yoz

Jan 21, 2022, 09:45 PM	#849
KAC All ur gays r belong 2 me Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lahore Posts: 66,569	Damn Amazon has a 6900xt nitro for 1000$. Don’t know why but I want it lol.

KAC's System Specs
Motherboard	MSI MAG X570 Tomahawk
CPU	AMD Ryzen 9 5900X @ 5.15 Gs
Graphics	EVGA RTX 3090 Ti FTW3 Ultra @ 2.1 Gs
Memory	32 GB G Skill Trident Z NEO RGB @ 3733 C14
Cooling Solution	Corsair H150i Pro @ Quiet
Display	LG 55” CX OLED \| Samsung Odyssey G7 32”
Soundcard & Speakers	Logitech G332
Hard-Drives	MP600 XT 1TB, 660P 1TB, MX500 1TB, 850 EVO 1TB, 840 EVO 512, 830 256 GB
Optical Drives	Dafuq dat optical drive?
Power Supply	EVGA G2 1300 W
Case	Lian Li 011D EVO
Input Devices	Logitech G502 \| Corsair K70 MK 2 RGB
Operating System	Windows 11 Pro
Extra Info	Still pounding your mums

Crawdaddy79's System Specs
Motherboard	MSI X470 GAMING M7 AC
CPU	Ryzen 5900X
Graphics	Gigabyte RX 3080 Eagle 12 GB
Memory	2 x 16 GB Micron Ballistix 3000 (@2667)
Cooling Solution	Noctua U12S
Display	Acer XF270HU 27" @ 1440p & Dell S2409W @ 1080p
Soundcard & Speakers	Sound BlasterX G6
Hard-Drives	2 x 500 GB Samsung SSD, 1 x 4 TB Toshiba platterstack
Optical Drives	LG OEM Blu-Ray that seems to work okay
Power Supply	EVGA G+ Gold 850W
Case	Fractal Design Define 7
Input Devices	Logitech MX 518, Corsair K70 Low Profile
Operating System	Windows 10 64bit Home
Extra Info	:spin:

Jan 21, 2022, 10:11 PM	#851
KAC All ur gays r belong 2 me Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lahore Posts: 66,569

Jan 21, 2022, 10:13 PM	#852
Crawdaddy79 Radeon 8500 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 19,279	I'm pretty sure you should scalp that. Same listing here.

Jan 21, 2022, 10:14 PM	#853
KAC All ur gays r belong 2 me Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lahore Posts: 66,569	Nobody buys a Radeon in UAE. Probably will end up losing money on it. Last edited by KAC : Jan 21, 2022 at 11:00 PM.

badsykes's System Specs
Motherboard	MSI B550M Bazooka
CPU	Ryzen 5 5600x
Graphics	Sapphire Pulse RX 6800 16gb
Memory	2x8gb 3600mhz cl16 / Patriot Viper Steel 4000 cl19
Cooling Solution	Scythe Ninja 4
Display	Eizo FS2434 / Dell s2721dgf
Soundcard & Speakers	Evga Nu Audio Pro 7.1
Hard-Drives	ADATA NVME SX8200pro / SSD kingston 240gb / WD VelociRaptor 500HHTZ
Optical Drives	DVD-RW Samsung 223C
Power Supply	Seasonic Prime 750w gold
Case	Nexus Caterpillar
Input Devices	Logitech G303
Operating System	W10 x64
Extra Info	125

Jan 26, 2022, 07:14 PM	#856
Nascar24 EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 Ultra Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: BOINGGGGGGGG! Posts: 14,312	Maybe things will begin to get better one day soon, Microcenter is finally letting you buy a bunch of in stock AMD video cards online now for store pickup. They actually have 25+ of the 6600. Maybe the price will start coming down to normal on some of these cards.

Nascar24's System Specs
Motherboard	ASRock X570 Extreme 4
CPU	AMD 5900X @ Stock
Graphics	EVGA RTX 3080 FTW3 Ultra
Memory	Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32GB 2 x 16GB DDR4-3600
Cooling Solution	EVGA CLC 360mm All-In-One RGB LED CPU Liquid Cooler
Display	Sony 65" X900H HDMI 2.1,55" LG OLED C9
Soundcard & Speakers	Realtek ALC1220
Hard-Drives	Samsung 960 EVO 512MB M.2 NVME, Samsung 850 Pro 500GB, 1 WD Green 1TB&2TB, 1 Seagate 2TB, 1 HGST 4TB
Power Supply	Seasonic Focus GX-850 850 Watt
Case	Thermaltake View 71 RGB Full Tower
Input Devices	Logitech G910 Orion Spark Keyboard, Logitech g MX518 mouse
Operating System	Windows 11 x64 Pro
Extra Info	Oculus Quest 1&2, Wii U, XBOX Series X, PS4 Pro, PS5, Wii U, PSVR, Switch

Jan 27, 2022, 01:50 AM	#857
Trunks0 Keeping an open mind Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada Posts: 21,268	The 6600 XT variant is about 2080 non-super non-ti level performance. So if your in 1080p land you can max out most games and get decent frame-rates before optimizing the settings to get more. Add a dash of RSR wherever you want soon and it's not half-bad for today's insanity. I'm bias however, I have a 6600XT and love it. Been a great upgrade from the R9 Fury __________________ -Trunks0 not speaking for all and if I am wrong I never said it. (plz note that is meant as a joke) System: Asus TUF Gaming X570-Pro - AMD Ryzen 7 5800x - Noctua NH-D15S chromax.Black - 32gb of G.Skill Trident Z NEO - Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD±RW - Samsung 850 Evo 250Gib - 4TiB Seagate - XFX MERC 308 Radeon RX 6600XT - Creative AE-5 Plus - Windows 10 64-bit

Jan 27, 2022, 09:04 AM	#859
Sasquach 2/10 will not bang Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Cowtown Posts: 27,507	I went to check on availability on 6600/6600XT Was able to pick up a 6600 non XT, not my preferred but this ****'s expensive. I basically said screw it and got it just cuz it was available. i hope my timing isnt off in terms of availability, and pricing.... If price drops actually do happen sometime in the future it might be like our housing market here in the city where there was a time it did drop but not nearly as much as anyone hoped...then it stabilizes and kind of went up and down from there..... __________________ ------Squachbox 2022------ Gigabyte 3D Aurora 570 full size aluminum chassis PC Power & Cooling Silencer Quad Blue 750watt PSU AMD Ryzen 5 2600X @ 3.6ghz Asus Prime B450M A/CSM 2 x 8GB G-Skill DDR4 2666 Dell E2210 (22" widescreen) monitor + Asus Dual Radeon RX 6600 Seagate Barracuda 500gb 7200.12 SATA Seagate Barracuda 2TB SATA Sennheiser PC350 Xense edition headset

Jan 27, 2022, 09:43 AM	#860
acroig Troll SMod Join Date: May 2004 Location: Troll Master of Manchesville Posts: 57,458	I dream of a day when you can walk into your favorite retailer and see all cards on inventory at MSRP. __________________ By your retarded posts i can only conclude you haven't been spanked enough. yoz

Jan 27, 2022, 11:47 AM	#865
Trunks0 Keeping an open mind Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada Posts: 21,268	I know but both cards handle 1440p ok (My 3840x1080p resolution is roughly in the ballpark of 1440p). You just end up dropping to Mixed High/Ultra instead of Ultra settings to get the same frame rates back up. Like 90+% of the time, you will not notice that difference anyway. It's why optimized settings are a thing. RTing is another matter. Without DLSS your kinda stuck. It's barely, to not really, usable. With FSR/RSR it becomes usable, but FSR/RSR tech isn't a DLSS. So your making a compromise that might not be worth it for the RT. Especially given that these cards play in 1080p/1440p land and not 4k. So while they have the feature, they aren't really powerful enough to use it. Which isn't surprising given they are lower tier cards. __________________ -Trunks0 not speaking for all and if I am wrong I never said it. (plz note that is meant as a joke) System: Asus TUF Gaming X570-Pro - AMD Ryzen 7 5800x - Noctua NH-D15S chromax.Black - 32gb of G.Skill Trident Z NEO - Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD±RW - Samsung 850 Evo 250Gib - 4TiB Seagate - XFX MERC 308 Radeon RX 6600XT - Creative AE-5 Plus - Windows 10 64-bit

Jan 27, 2022, 12:57 PM	#869
acroig Troll SMod Join Date: May 2004 Location: Troll Master of Manchesville Posts: 57,458	@sykes I never want to see Trunks angry, EVER!!!! __________________ By your retarded posts i can only conclude you haven't been spanked enough. yoz

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Official Navi2x/6x00 series thread	Higgy10	AMD Radeon Discussion and Support	1084	May 11, 2022 07:37 AM
Nvidia Resolutions (or lack thereof)	Auric	Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies	6	Oct 25, 2006 05:35 PM
Brightness or lack thereof in quake3 and wolfenstein	afinman	Radeon Technical Support	6	Sep 27, 2003 04:37 PM
Article on GeForce FX AF (or lack thereof)	SsP45	Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies	1	Jul 21, 2003 09:37 PM
Overclocking ( Lack thereof)	Sky Luminaire	General Hardware	3	Feb 16, 2003 06:07 PM