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Old Jul 17, 2006, 10:54 PM   #1
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Qb2k5
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Default 360's future. Rumor and Theory discussion.

So who thinks MS will eventually release a 3rd sku with HD-DVD built in to compete with PS3 Blu Ray drive?

My first theory is that MS will either phase out the core version or lower the price to $250 or under, to compete with the Wii release (since we all know that the Wii will be in the $200-$250 range).

My second theory is that Ms will release a IE-7 download for the 360 to compete with the PS3 internet browser. It would be for email and web browsing. Using MS's MSNTV 2 technology. http://www.msntv.com/pc/

MSNTV 2 technology is the missing link to making the 360 a full entertainment box. MSNTV 2 does everything from video to instant messenging. I wouldnt see what harm it would make or cause. If the 360 would allow me to browse the web, after a quick 14 sec boot-up from my larger HD WS TV, I probadly wouldnt use my pc much except for gaming and productivity stuff.

My third theory is that the premium version will eventually come with built in HD-DVD drive to replace the standard dvd drive. The only thing to this is that the stand alone unit will cost about $100. So if they added a third sku with one built in how much would it cost? Maybe $475-$500? It would piss off a lot of hardcore Xbox supporters. But remember that alot of people were pissed by the "Core" and "Prem" versions when it was announced. But the 360 still survived.

My last theory is that MS will announce that the 360 will support 1080p video. From gaming to HD-DVD movies, or just hd-dvd movies only. MS just announced that R500 powering 360 will use Ati's Avivo technology. So its a no brainer that they would announce this. To further gain ground from PS3's 1080p support.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 02:30 AM   #2
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I don't think MS is ready to take that kind of leap yet, and I don't think they want to kill off their PC/OS market. I think their consoles will be made to "complement" the PC not replace it. We're already pretty close to them being able to implement many things, however I think it will be the next "next" gen where things are realized as the pieces are still falling in to place. Right now, a person with a little bit of money and knowhow could purchase a MCPC, and a 360/media center entender for each TV in the house. You can access all of your content at any TV in the house at any time. With larger 360 HD's you could go to another house hooked up the same and bring much of that content with you and have it available on THAT entire network. The groundwork is already there, but the infrastructure is still not there in many homes. By the next gen, HDTV's should be mainstream, home networks should be mainstream...etc. Vista should be mainstream(some versions include the media center software...MS will make it fairly easy to get for everyone at some point). And bam, what the techno junkies can already do this gen will become easily available to all next gen. The traditional PC will merge into a server type capacity(and will be the place for all the "boring" stuff you really don't need on your entertainment space), and all these sub machines(gaming consoles and media center entenders and webTV's)will be clients to access that content. You could even stretch this a little further and have game content tools available on the DVD's the games come on that run on the PC when you put it in your DVD-ROM drive on that server PC, people create content, any 360 on the network could access it, and it could be published on Xbox Live for others to enjoy. This would already be possible for some now with the stuff they already have in their homes, and is the direction I believe they hope Joe Schmoe will be able to take a few years from now. I find it kind of funny when people say MS is short sighted, because if you look we're coming to the point of things that bill gates talked about seeing MS doing almost twenty years ago.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 07:18 AM   #3
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Well, a picture of a 360 motherboard with an HDMI port is all over the net right now, indicating that there will be a 3rd sku. However, I think the 360 isn't capable of outputting games at 1080p.

The browser will probably be here in the 2nd 2006 update.

HD-DVD will pwn Blu-Ray.

Rumors have been going around of a 360 pack that includes 1250 MS points and PGR3 for just $400.

They'll include HD-DVD in the 360 when the price of blue lasers goes down so that we can buy $80 HD-DVD players.

MSNTV would not take off on the 360 just as it hasn't taken off on TV. Thats what we have MCE in the box for.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 07:54 AM   #4
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We are all talking about a conveniently blurry probably photchopped pic of the mobo with the HDMI port included. MS has stated that HD-DVD is for movies only and even MS would not alienate the userbase like that.

Even if the photo was authentic from a lab somewhere, dev labs have thousands of alpha hardware laying around during different phases of developement and that could be an early version of the design not what it is today.

I really think MS is not stupid enough to throw a different optical format in the box as that would spell disaster for the millions who have already bought and are enjoying the 360 today. Changes will be made but not drastic like that. Cost reducing measures will be found but no drastic changes to the hardware will occur.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 08:55 AM   #5
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Don't foget that before the current two systems were announced, there were rumors flying around of 3 SKU's, one being almost a X360/PC hybrid. It's possible we may still this in the future with a HD-DVD drive running a variant of Vista MCE.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 09:01 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearxor
Don't foget that before the current two systems were announced, there were rumors flying around of 3 SKU's, one being almost a X360/PC hybrid. It's possible we may still this in the future with a HD-DVD drive running a variant of Vista MCE.
Holy crap, I forgot about that. I was hoping that would be my next pc upgrade.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 10:06 AM   #7
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MS is not going to change the 360 spec. No 1080p, no HDMI. That is the whole point of a console - unified hardware. I think there's a slight chance in a few years of a built-in HD-DVD version, if the drives get cheap enough, but I doubt it.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 10:12 AM   #8
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My prediction is that xbox360 will cause ww3, as chine buys them up by the hundreds and uses them to launch missiles and uses ALL THREE CORES to coordinate their attacks on the US. The US doesn't stand a chance against China armed with the power of the xbox360!
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 12:04 PM   #9
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prediction:

1. No built in HD-DVD, no spec changes.
2. HDMI output cable, possibly enabling 1080p for movies.
3. DVI output cable, for people who dont have a HDMI port.
4. Upgraded media center capability with the release of the HD-DVD player and/or the vision camera.
5. No web browser, just expanded xbox live marketplace content, music is my guess.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 03:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalDemon
prediction:

1. No built in HD-DVD, no spec changes.
2. HDMI output cable, possibly enabling 1080p for movies.
3. DVI output cable, for people who dont have a HDMI port.
Re 2 & 3: The HDMI would have to be on the console, not the addon HD drive right? So that's a spec change. And DVI accepts HDMI with an adaptor, so DVI output is not necessary.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 03:37 PM   #11
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HDMI output probably isn't going to happen unless they do release another SKU with the HD-DVD drive built in. This is because the HDMI port cannot be added into the add-on drive since that will be connected to the 360 via USB. By standard, the HDMI protection is supposed to be one continuous link from the player to the television set. The USB connection to the add-on drive simply defeats the purpose of the protection, so HDMI cannot be added to the add-on drive. Of course, if Microsoft does make a 3rd SKU with HDMI, then they'll create another rift between 360 owners - those who can display their HD-DVD movies in 1080p, and those who cannot. I don't think Microsoft can afford doing that, since that basically screws over anyone who bought the system early.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 05:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hidavi
Well, a picture of a 360 motherboard with an HDMI port is all over the net right now, indicating that there will be a 3rd sku. However, I think the 360 isn't capable of outputting games at 1080p.

The browser will probably be here in the 2nd 2006 update.

HD-DVD will pwn Blu-Ray.

Rumors have been going around of a 360 pack that includes 1250 MS points and PGR3 for just $400.

They'll include HD-DVD in the 360 when the price of blue lasers goes down so that we can buy $80 HD-DVD players.

MSNTV would not take off on the 360 just as it hasn't taken off on TV. Thats what we have MCE in the box for.
Side topic:
You think HD will win? We are not manufacturing any HD movies, but we are doing Blue ray for most of the studios. I thought HD would be cheaper and the standard, but it looks like studios are backing blue ray.

Jim
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 05:18 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmt
Side topic:
You think HD will win? We are not manufacturing any HD movies, but we are doing Blue ray for most of the studios. I thought HD would be cheaper and the standard, but it looks like studios are backing blue ray.

Jim
I think HD will win just because blu-ray sucks ass visually and feature-wise.

Also, Blu-Ray may have more studios behind it, but who has the studio who had 50% of last year's most highly rated movies? Warner Bros who is on the HD-DVD side, thats who. Its all how you look at it...
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 05:45 PM   #14
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Also think of it this way, the studios are loyal to one thing and that is MONEY. if one standard pulls ahead they will jump over to the more lucrative format.

The more I read about Blu-Ray the more it does sound like the second coming of Beta Max.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 06:20 PM   #15
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Anyone else notice the people bashing the PS3 are also bashing blu-ray?
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 07:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmt
Side topic:
You think HD will win? We are not manufacturing any HD movies, but we are doing Blue ray for most of the studios. I thought HD would be cheaper and the standard, but it looks like studios are backing blue ray.

Jim
Most people who are really into HD technology prefer HD DVD by a landslide.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/blu-ray_2.htm
http://www.dvdtown.com/announcement/...ybyipsos/3665/
http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33860176
http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33860781
http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33859038

Looks like some of the studios and hardware manufacturers picked the wrong horse to bet on. I expect major fallout and defecting by early 2007.

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Old Jul 18, 2006, 07:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikachuman
Anyone else notice the people bashing the PS3 are also bashing blu-ray?
The only reason I'm holding off on the PS3 for at least two years is because of Blu-Ray.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 09:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hidavi
The only reason I'm holding off on the PS3 for at least two years is because of Blu-Ray.
Sounds more like a case of "sour grapes" to me.

They jumped the gun, and spent $400 to get a next-gen console early. They are stuck with the last-gen DVD format unless they can cough up another $500 to $1000 bucks for good quality HD player.

Now that blu-ray is coming to the masses, we're seeing "naw, I didn't really want blu-ray! Honest! Blu-r4y sucks!!! HD-DVD is better!!11!". It's kind of silly really.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 09:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikachuman
Sounds more like a case of "sour grapes" to me.

They jumped the gun, and spent $400 to get a next-gen console early. They are stuck with the last-gen DVD format unless they can cough up another $500 to $1000 bucks for good quality HD player.

Now that blu-ray is coming to the masses, we're seeing "naw, I didn't really want blu-ray! Honest! Blu-r4y sucks!!! HD-DVD is better!!11!". It's kind of silly really.

What about those that already have a 360, have an HD-DVD player, plan on purchasing a PS3 (not necessarily on release day), but still think that Blu-ray is so far appears to be an inferior and unnecessary gamble by Sony to garner market share??

I happen to be one of those people.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 09:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikachuman
Sounds more like a case of "sour grapes" to me.

They jumped the gun, and spent $400 to get a next-gen console early. They are stuck with the last-gen DVD format unless they can cough up another $500 to $1000 bucks for good quality HD player.

Now that blu-ray is coming to the masses, we're seeing "naw, I didn't really want blu-ray! Honest! Blu-r4y sucks!!! HD-DVD is better!!11!". It's kind of silly really.
I didn't mean what you think I did. I meant that Blu-Ray is the reason the PS3 costs $500 and also the reason why games will cost more to produce and to buy. I don't want to spend $500 on another console. Maybe had it come out at around the same time as the 360 (since I paid $480 for mine) I would've gone for it, but nope. Not to mention that had the option to purchase it at the same time I was about to buy my 360, I would've had to pay over $580 for it because of demand.
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Old Jul 18, 2006, 09:42 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikachuman
Sounds more like a case of "sour grapes" to me.

They jumped the gun, and spent $400 to get a next-gen console early. They are stuck with the last-gen DVD format unless they can cough up another $500 to $1000 bucks for good quality HD player.

Now that blu-ray is coming to the masses, we're seeing "naw, I didn't really want blu-ray! Honest! Blu-r4y sucks!!! HD-DVD is better!!11!". It's kind of silly really.
Or, they could spend 1/3 the price of a PS3 and get the HD DVD addon for the 360 - getting far better picture quality with HD DVD in the process.

Really its simple math.

$399 Premium XBOX 360 + $199 HD DVD addon = $599 = Premium PS3 with Blu-Ray. No sour grapes there, its straight up equal cost. And HD DVD looks a heck of a lot better than Blu-Ray anyway!

P.S. -- Ironically, despite my stunning revelation in my reply, personally I'd never use a console to do a standalone's job of playing movies.

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Old Jul 18, 2006, 09:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranCendenZ
Most people who are really into HD technology prefer HD DVD by a landslide.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/blu-ray_2.htm[/url]
...

Looks like some of the studios and hardware manufacturers picked the wrong horse to bet on. I expect major fallout and defecting by early 2007.
They aren't doing straight comparisons though. They are comparing some awful film based rips like Terminator 1 against much better encoded material on HD-DVD disks. The reviewers for Ziff Davis Media have reported seeing stuff like physical tears in the film being copied into some of the first released blu-ray movies. These are not indicitive of the quality these formats are capable of, and you are doing yourself a disservice by limiting reviews to these releases.

The underlying technology is the same for both formats. They are identical in the codecs available, resolution, and even bitrate is close (BR has a slight edge). i.e. they are capable of holding the exact same video data.

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Old Jul 18, 2006, 10:05 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranCendenZ
Or, they could spend 1/3 the price of a PS3 and get the HD DVD addon for the 360 - getting far better picture quality with HD DVD in the process.

Really its simple math.

$399 Premium XBOX 360 + $199 HD DVD addon = $599 = Premium PS3 with Blu-Ray. No sour grapes there, its straight up equal cost. And HD DVD looks a heck of a lot better than Blu-Ray anyway!

P.S. -- Ironically, despite my stunning revelation in my reply, personally I'd never use a console to do a standalone's job of playing movies.
But the Premium PS3 comes with HDMI, Wifi, media stick slots, and a 60 Gigabyte hard drive.

The 'normal' PS3 is alot more realisitic. It comes with everything the Xbox360 premium comes with, and a blu-ray player for only $499. If you are doing math, this is the right model to choose to compare. You will save $100 with this purchase, and not have to deal with an awkward external drive on the Xbox360.

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Old Jul 18, 2006, 10:32 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikachuman
Sounds more like a case of "sour grapes" to me.

They jumped the gun, and spent $400 to get a next-gen console early. They are stuck with the last-gen DVD format unless they can cough up another $500 to $1000 bucks for good quality HD player.

Now that blu-ray is coming to the masses, we're seeing "naw, I didn't really want blu-ray! Honest! Blu-r4y sucks!!! HD-DVD is better!!11!". It's kind of silly really.
By your account anyone that says anything negative about the PS3 is calling sour grapes which is not the case.

Any videophile worth their weight will NOT use a console to watch videos and I am included in that group. I refuse to pay $599 for a console that technology wise is even with a console that came out a year before it (even worse in some areas) and the only benefit is they are force feeding a technology which has the pontential to be only used in that console if the format fails which with what is available now HD-DVD looks better regardless of film displayed.

Sony is giving a virtual biotch slap to their cutomers and forcing them to pay extra for something that is not needed because they are arrogant and have not learned from their failures in the past.

MS gave us a choice (all the legal time payed off) and I got exactly what I wanted and that is a game console . I could care less about wireless and I can easily connect to my MCE computer to get my music and pictures so having extra card slots is useless to me.

The only reason to get a PS3 is to get 1st party exclusives and Sony has nothing I want because I can't stand the Anime inspired drivel they produce and Gran Tourismo to me is a waste. 3rd party games are mostly multi platform (the good games anyways) and there will probably be slim to nil in the differences dept.

MS has what I want so don't call it sour grapes, call it my preference because believe it or not not everyone wants a damn playstation.
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Old Jul 19, 2006, 12:31 AM   #25
seiji-kun
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I think we oughta save HD-DVD and Blu-ray comparisons for when both formats have the same movie release. Blu-ray had a rough start, but from reviews I've seen, it seems that newer releases are beginning to look much better. And it's not like HD-DVD is without some subpar looking titles either. I saw the HD-DVD trailer for The Manchurian Candidate at Best Buy, and there was this really annoying ghosting or jittering going on during motion sequences. So really, it's too early to be calling a winner, IMO.
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Old Jul 19, 2006, 01:04 AM   #26
Stilgar1973
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There is no way the PS3 is going to amount to anything outside of Japan.
Well there is one way, if sony has been lying about the price and puts it out for the same price as the Xbox360. Sony could own Microsoft if it did that. But I don't think that is going to happen.
The kids that beg there parents for a PS3 for Christmas are going to get an Xbox360 or a Wii. Probably a 360. I predict a serious shortage for the Wii and no shortage for the PS3 (outside of maybe it's first 3 weeks of release) or the 360.
The Christmas shortage for the Wii is a compliment. The first 3 week shortage of the PS3 is all those rich kids getting theres. By this time next year popularity of PS3 vs 360 will be very much like popularity of PSP vs DS now.
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Old Jul 19, 2006, 03:15 AM   #27
Takezo
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There is one thing for sure. MSFT will eventually lowere prices for Xbox 360. Once that happends, there will be no need for core systems. Core system should have not exisisted in first place. But they had Xbox 360 listed at $299 on paper, thus had to release a striped down version to meet that statement.


Xbox 360 comprizes of mostly current Xbox users. Xbox 1 is dead. There are 3rd party games still coming out for it, however in MSFT eyes the Xbox 1 is dead. Xbox users will eventually jump aboard xbox 360 sooner or later.

Actualy all three systems have their own market.

Xbox 360 = American/ European games: FPS, War Sims, and even more FPS. all while playing them online. Short life span. Will be replaced by Xbox 1080 before you know it, only to have similar games as Xboxes before it, but with higher definition graphics.

PS3 = Japanese franchise exclusives: Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Devil May Cry, Dragon Quest etc. Cost will be it's #1 enemy. B-Ray will end up like UMD. In US and Europe, with only Japanese franchise exclusives to really back it up. PS3 is the real niche console this time.

Wii = Niche gaming desined for Non-gamers, and loyalists. All things mainstream start of as niche. This system is also for the bored gamer who is sick and tired of all the repedititveness in game genre and style of late. Wii will breath new life into video gaming that neither MSFT or Sony could even dream of acomplishing. I am in the latter position now.

Fortunately the niche games availible on Game Cube are curbing my apetite for entirely new game experience.
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Old Jul 19, 2006, 06:37 AM   #28
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Your all forgetting one point, MSFT isn't a hardware company, it's a software company. I belive Microsoft's goal is all about virtualization. The reason Microsoft is brining an HD-DVD player out in the first place is to show it's support for the technology nothing more. with ATI also powering the HD-DVD player I believe HDMI is a good possibility as is 1080P support. I wouldn't count on it though. Most affordable HDTV's today are not even 1080p they only do 720p. So why put money into a technology that most users don't have or can't afford. I would expect microsoft to bring a browser LIKE feature to the 360, something like reading your IE7 favorites and displaying them on the 360, or having virtual sites for 360 content that links to webpages that can be viewed on your windows PC. I see in the future LIVE coming to VISTA so people who have high end PC's can play against LIVE users on the 360. Maybe even transfer game saves between the 360 and the PC. Possibly an ITunes like service where you can buy music or movies and download them directly from the internet to the 360 (think video podcasting directly to the 360). so no 1080P, No built in HD-DVD (that will be the next gen), Possible HDMI with HD-DVD add on, More live and software utilization options, no distinct internet browser, but maybe something that lets you see web pages or links in LIVE.
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