Microsoft Surface

[JonZ]

http://www.microsoft.com/surface/

[_TiTaNiuM]

Pretty sure we've seen this a dozen times before, and nothing good has ever come from it

[caveman-jim]

cool! Shame their focus moved away from Childrens interactive learning and fun to being all about enterprise collabaration.

[JonZ]

Originally Posted by _TiTaNiuM

Pretty sure we've seen this a dozen times before, and nothing good has ever come from it

I've seen a couple of times of prototype demonstrations in the past on yt.

And since I am working for a company based on tactile screen interface, I'm all happy about it

I can imagine the possibilities

[cjl64]

i like it!!! It's going to take forever before we actually see this in the real world. But it really looks like futuristic hardware.

[MangaSpawn64]

Originally Posted by JonZ

I can imagine the possibilities

Pr0n games will never be the same... you'll have a sore wrist and you didn't came yet

[GravY]

I think this is very sweet.. cant wait for it to be realized fully..

[Djinn]

IMO, this is an impressive device of limited application. Sure, it's pretty, and useful for very specific tasks. But utterly useless for most real-world activities. Consider the bulk of the things you do on your computer. If you're a student, you probably spend a lot of time writing essays. All of us use e-mail, and waste inordinate amounts of time posting on Rage3D.

For these most-common consumer activities, this interface - requiring both new software and hardware - won't help at all. They routinely show users sorting photos and videos. I'm sure most of us have done this, but how often can one re-organize a photo collection? You take a few pictures, you add 'em. Done. There are already plenty of inexpensive (or free) programs that aid this task. And of course, the touch-interface is useless if you want to do something as exotic as renaming an image file.

Use your hand to drag images into folders, use your mouse to drag images into folders. The primary difference is the cost. I don't know how much those multi-contact touch screens cost, but I'm going to guess that each one is a crapload more expensive than a mouse. And for that price, it should make tasks a crapload easier.

In many ways, this reminds me of the Segway scooters. It's got a high "neat" factor, but when confronted with the $5000+ price tag, you realize that it really doesn't offer much to benefit an average consumer.

[Ibis]

Originally Posted by Djinn

IMO, this is an impressive device of limited application. Sure, it's pretty, and useful for very specific tasks. But utterly useless for most real-world activities. Consider the bulk of the things you do on your computer. If you're a student, you probably spend a lot of time writing essays. All of us use e-mail, and waste inordinate amounts of time posting on Rage3D.

For these most-common consumer activities, this interface - requiring both new software and hardware - won't help at all. They routinely show users sorting photos and videos. I'm sure most of us have done this, but how often can one re-organize a photo collection? You take a few pictures, you add 'em. Done. There are already plenty of inexpensive (or free) programs that aid this task. And of course, the touch-interface is useless if you want to do something as exotic as renaming an image file.

Use your hand to drag images into folders, use your mouse to drag images into folders. The primary difference is the cost. I don't know how much those multi-contact touch screens cost, but I'm going to guess that each one is a crapload more expensive than a mouse. And for that price, it should make tasks a crapload easier.

In many ways, this reminds me of the Segway scooters. It's got a high "neat" factor, but when confronted with the $5000+ price tag, you realize that it really doesn't offer much to benefit an average consumer.

But that way will feel a shitload more intuitive than using a mouse, take the iPod for example, and it's scroll wheel, easy to use, "feels" right etc. And the Macbooks two finger-scroll. I think we'll have much more things like that presentation in say... 10 years time.

[_TiTaNiuM]

Originally Posted by Ibis

But that way will feel a shitload more intuitive than using a mouse, take the iPod for example, and it's scroll wheel, easy to use, "feels" right etc. And the Macbooks two finger-scroll. I think we'll have much more things like that presentation in say... 10 years time.

I don't own an iPod, but when i mess with my friends, it's the most confusing peice of **** in the world, I can't even figure out how to turn it off, let alone navigate the menues. I am by no means an idiot when it comes to technology either.

[Ibis]

Originally Posted by _TiTaNiuM

I don't own an iPod, but when i mess with my friends, it's the most confusing peice of **** in the world, I can't even figure out how to turn it off, let alone navigate the menues. I am by no means an idiot when it comes to technology either.

Neither do I, but it's won several awards etc for it's UI. Ah well, feels more like the real world, just... more intuitive :P Haha.

[_TiTaNiuM]

Originally Posted by Ibis

Neither do I, but it's won several awards etc for it's UI. Ah well, feels more like the real world, just... more intuitive :P Haha.

Apple stuff wins awards BECAUSE it's apple gear, tech snobs beat off to everything they make, most of it is garbage.

Anything apple wins should be taken with a grain of salt

[Djinn]

Originally Posted by Ibis

But that way will feel a shitload more intuitive than using a mouse, take the iPod for example, and it's scroll wheel, easy to use, "feels" right etc. And the Macbooks two finger-scroll. I think we'll have much more things like that presentation in say... 10 years time.

More intuitive, perhaps, but also more limiting. The Segway is a brilliant piece of technology that is thwarted as soon as you need to walk up a step or two. And when this happens, you have to lug the stupid Segway with you.

Likewise, this technology suddenly becomes a hinderance when (for example) typing a post on Rage3D. Previously, your hands are already on the keyboard, ready to type. Now, you'll have to pull out your keyboard each time you need to type (which is pretty often, considering what most people do online), and put it away again so that it doesn't consume space on the table-top touch-screen.

[Dragex]

I wouldn't share my credit card info with Microsoft at all.

[Ibis]

Originally Posted by Djinn

More intuitive, perhaps, but also more limiting. The Segway is a brilliant piece of technology that is thwarted as soon as you need to walk up a step or two. And when this happens, you have to lug the stupid Segway with you.

Likewise, this technology suddenly becomes a hinderance when (for example) typing a post on Rage3D. Previously, your hands are already on the keyboard, ready to type. Now, you'll have to pull out your keyboard each time you need to type (which is pretty often, considering what most people do online), and put it away again so that it doesn't consume space on the table-top touch-screen.

I bet that you with a simple gesture in ten years time can pull out a virtual keyboard on your cool touchscreen and use that to type :P
I mean, why drag a file with a mouse, when you can drag it with your hands, just like in real life?

[Djinn]

Originally Posted by Ibis

I bet that you with a simple gesture in ten years time can pull out a virtual keyboard on your cool touchscreen and use that to type :P
I mean, why drag a file with a mouse, when you can drag it with your hands, just like in real life?

A virtual keyboard on a touchscreen would offer virtually no tactile response. I'm not saying that it would make typing impossible, but it would be very different from what we're used to. For example, when playing a game, I can keep a finger on the "use medkit" key, and press it as soon as I need it. With a virtual keyboard, you touch the key, and it's pressed.

Freeze. Seriously. Don't move. Look at your hands. I'm betting that most of you have at least one hand touching a key on your keyboard, or a button on your mouse right now, even though you're not typing anything. Like I said, in order for people to accept an expensive piece of hardware that forces them to change their most fundamental PC habits, it better offer HUGE advantages over existing mechanisms.

And I'm just not seeing that with this technology. It's convenient (but not necessary) for a handful of non-routine tasks, but that's about it.

[daPhoenix]

Something that really annoys me pops up here again - if you dig into the website a little deeper, you find once again the age old Microsoft: "This is our innovation" - well except it isn't but when stamped with their company logo - it suddenly has never been done or thought of before and a huge PR campaign beats that fact into every commoners head.

*shakes head*

[jimmyboy]

Originally Posted by Ibis

I bet that you with a simple gesture in ten years time can pull out a virtual keyboard on your cool touchscreen and use that to type :P
I mean, why drag a file with a mouse, when you can drag it with your hands, just like in real life?

I think you have a very good point. Yet Djinn has a very good counter-point. As it is now, though, I'm leaning toward Djinn's point of view. However, in time I think the bugs will be worked out, and a Surface-like device could be much more practical that how we currently envision. When that happens, I'll be ing.

Right now, the main everyday-Joe application I see will be in coffee shops and bars, where people will gather around the neato touch-table and play games and stuff.

[vitocorleone]

it'd definitely an attempt at socialized computing. in today's world with today's tech it is of limited application (such as i read - hotel lobbies, tmobile stores, etc.) and certainly not mobile. it is very interesting that they spent 5 years working on it and probably more money than any of us will ever make in a lifetime, but, as was pointed out, it's not necessarily "new".... but, then, an idea is only an idea unless it turns into product.

for anyone interested in an ongoing discussion by interaction designers (currently a thread about surface), i encourage you to visit http://beta.ixda.org/ and consider joining the mailing list.

http://beta.ixda.org/discuss.php?post=16728

[Djinn]

I maintain that the most common consumer-level applications for computers are (in no particular order):

1) Typing documents
2) Typing e-mails
3) Browsing the web
4) Playing games.

The first two benefit heavily from a keyboard, and wouldn't benefit at all from a touchscreen. Web browsing relies less on a keyboard, but I'm hard-pressed to describe how browsing would be greatly facilitated (when you're talking about spending $$$ on hardware, it better be "greatly") by a touchscreen.

Games could theoretically benefit, but games would have to be specially designed to support it. Imagine playing a 3D shooter with a touchscreen, versus a mouse. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want my hand constantly obstructing the screen.

[Treeckcold57]

My school internet connection sucks...I'll get home when after school.

[SpongeBebop]

Originally Posted by JonZ

I can imagine the fingerprints

[Trunks0]

Home use could be interesting as it could remove the mouse and be far more intuitive for allot of things. Replacing the keyboard wouldn't be too hard with such an interface. There are a number of options such as simply writing on the screen and having it be converted to text,virtual keyboards etc etc.

As for games. I could see it being extremely useful to an RTS player. And it wouldn't require any special programming beyond the touch tech having a profile for the game. However in other genre's I'd be a little sceptical.

[_TiTaNiuM]

Originally Posted by Trunks0

Home use could be interesting as it could remove the mouse and be far more intuitive for allot of things. Replacing the keyboard wouldn't be too hard with such an interface. There are a number of options such as simply writing on the screen and having it be converted to text,virtual keyboards etc etc.

As for games. I could see it being extremely useful to an RTS player. And it wouldn't require any special programming beyond the touch tech having a profile for the game. However in other genre's I'd be a little sceptical.

Typing is far faster than writing, be it print or cursive

[Djinn]

Originally Posted by Trunks0

... There are a number of options such as simply writing on the screen and having it be converted to text,virtual keyboards etc etc..

With virtual keyboards, you completely lose the tactile response. And as for writing on the screen... Well, let's just say that I'm not a world-class typist, but I'm willing to match my typing speed against ANYONE'S writing speed.

Edit: What _TiTaNiuM said, only more eloquently.

[JonZ]

Originally Posted by SpongeBebop

Yes, I can imagine Spongebop to touch with his greasy hands

[Djinn]

Originally Posted by JonZ

Yes, I can imagine Spongebop to touch with his greasy hands

Jokes aside, it's a valid point. It's one thing to get a bit of potato-chip grease on the keyboard or mouse. But if you're like me, you don't tolerate any sort of smudge on the display screen. That'll be hard to avoid when using a touch-screen interface as your primary display.

[Trunks0]

Originally Posted by _TiTaNiuM

Typing is far faster than writing, be it print or cursive

I never said it was better. I was simply saying how it may not be as large an issue as some may think. In a non-office environment it would not be that large of a deal to write on the screen compared to typing. There would also be ways to deal with the lack of tactile feedback of a virtual keyboard as well. Using both visual and audio cues for instance would probably help. None the less it would be strange and take awhile to get used to.

However if I had to choose, I would rather have a real keyboard

[Treeckcold57]

back to home and...I did watch that videos. It's pretty impressive technology.

[night]

i wanna play spore with it