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Old Feb 12, 2010, 01:47 PM   #1
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Default What is a focus group member and what does Nvidia get back in return?

I'm trying to understand the history here and it is somewhat confusing.

I have started here and moving forward.
http://consumerist.com/2006/02/nvidi...n-program.html

Perez's comments seem amazing to me. It appears he quit Nvidia last year.
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 01:52 PM   #2
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Yeah, that was badly handled. I wonder if AEG is still retained by nVidia and if they still recruit people? From what I recall the Focus Group was frozen at four members and they had to publically disclose, but that doesn't mean other prominent forum goers aren't approached and brought into the program silently.
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 02:44 PM   #3
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Can someone explain this though I found yesterday:

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.ph...9&postcount=13
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 02:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
Can someone explain this though I found yesterday:

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.ph...9&postcount=13
How about starting another thread for that instead of pulling a 100% diversion. It is worthy of its own thread.

edit: Or perhaps quoting trinibwoy of hardforum doesn't mean much more than talking about one of my turds half floating in a toilet.

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Old Feb 12, 2010, 02:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
Can someone explain this though I found yesterday:

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.ph...9&postcount=13
Odd being that the only mention of AMD & "Competitive Analysis Team" seems to originate from nV "sources" (BSN, trini etc) with one mention of a so called team (not apparent if it is even tied with AMD/ATI either) from here: http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache&...MD&hl=en&gl=us

Quote:
Do you have a formal process for communicating your brand strategy?
Jeff: We have a Competitive Analysis Team that tracks our brand position. Well,actually it's one guy, but he's very good
Jeff being Jeff Pulver, Executive Vice President of Marketing at E.piphany with questions asked during the sixth meeting of the Silicon Valley Branding
Forum.

The only mention of AMD's "Team" other than misc forum ramblings comes from the resume of Richard G. Russell at http://www.io.com/~richardr/resume.html

Quote:
June 2001 to the Present
AMD Performance Labs
Software and Business Development Manager - Benchmarking & Performance Analysis

I managed AMD's competitive analysis team for client systems
Edit: and while I respect trini - his ties and bias towards nV go a long way back, it doens't help that his post at HardOCP is simply "I heard from <insert unreliable, unsubstantiated source>"

So to wrap up the only mention of AMD's "Competitive Analysis Team" is from:
1: BSN (really you REALLY want to use them as a source ?!!)
2: Trini - "I heard from so and so who heard by another so and so " with absolutely no links to back up
3: A resume for Richard G. Russell

So IF we are to take so and so at their respective word, then the only question is do these "regular guys, many of whom are regular forum dwellers who interact with the community and report back to AMD" create situations where obviously biased and pre-prepared material are diseminated as though it was their own (like a certain group of focus from another company) and resort to near viral community interactions that are nothing more than propaganda ?
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 03:45 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
Can someone explain this though I found yesterday:

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.ph...9&postcount=13
Off topic troll is off topic. Or perhaps on topic as per paid agenda? AEG employee, SirPauly? Thats right, you're a very private person. Kidding aside, that is fine, you have the right. Posts like this reinforce peoples perceptions and assumptions about you. Which can make it more difficult for the genuine content and enthusiasm you have for gaming technology to be heard.
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 03:58 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by guest View Post
I'm trying to understand the history here and it is somewhat confusing.

I have started here and moving forward.
http://consumerist.com/2006/02/nvidi...n-program.html

Perez's comments seem amazing to me. It appears he quit Nvidia last year.

there is no AEG focus group anymore, just people like to use that tag line here because they don't know how to communicate with information and data instead they go into idiotic posts about how "your mother is a focus group member", its useless thread since its been beaten over the head over and over again.
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What exactly do you think would happen if you *did* connect a large load? The arrival of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse?
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Contrast that with the GT300 approach. There is no dedicated tesselator, and if you use that DX11 feature, it will take large amounts of shader time, used inefficiently as is the case with general purpose hardware. You will then need the same shaders again to render the triangles. 250K to 1 Million triangles on the GT300 should be notably slower than straight 1 Million triangles.
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1137331/a-look-nvidia-gt300-architecture

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and you tell me I am in for a suprise? It is the FX; Late, hot, needing insane clock rates for its size. You have yet to show even one of my posts wrong.

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Old Feb 12, 2010, 04:34 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by caveman-jim View Post
Off topic troll is off topic. Or perhaps on topic as per paid agenda? AEG employee, SirPauly? Thats right, you're a very private person. Kidding aside, that is fine, you have the right. Posts like this reinforce peoples perceptions and assumptions about you. Which can make it more difficult for the genuine content and enthusiasm you have for gaming technology to be heard.
You desire to question my credibility knock yourself out. A decade of posts about the same thing and consistent -- passion for improved gaming experiences.

It's hard to believe someone could actually be self-less and offers their time to the community and desires nothing in return. Don't want money, hardware, fame, part of a web-site, part of a company -- nothing but to share views with other passionate gamers out there in the world. That's my joy and attachment.

To answer your questions No, not part of any marketing group affiliated with nVidia, ATI or 3dfx in any way over the years.

Sound worse than PR because I am probably more passionate about gaming experiences than they are. Love this stuff and light up like a x-mas tree when talking about it.
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 05:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razor1 View Post
there is no AEG focus group anymore, just people like to use that tag line here because they don't know how to communicate with information and data instead they go into idiotic posts about how "your mother is a focus group member", its useless thread since its been beaten over the head over and over again.
It was tough for me as I was right in the middle of that one, too. As mentioned before quite a few focus member I knew pretty well before they were actually focus members. Was so pissed that it was secretive -- actually suspected something was amiss because the data in our conversations I couldn't find on the net. I was like this to myself, " How does he know this?" When the truth was exposed I was furious because a person i talked to every day for years-and years was being disingenuous to some degree. Felt betrayed because he was my friend.

There were some heavy exchanges and was personally emotional but water under the bridge and think the world of this person as I reached out to him about ChrisRay's death.

The classic was Jethro, hehe, and knew him as Fred Sanford back in the old 3dfx days -- that poster never changed - -brash with a tad bit of arrogance to me.

Still feel there is nothing wrong with gamers with passion being part of a focus group for ATI or nVidia -- as long as it is noted up-front. They may provide a service for customers -- to help them -- or help with ignorance that may be helped with a little data point. The problem is secretive, being disingenuous -- that's the nasty part.
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 05:48 PM   #10
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Don't forget that Nvidia and ATI have professional graphics and are starting to get into computational stuff as well. I'm concerned that non-gamer circles are infected with this kind of garbage.
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 05:58 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
You desire to question my credibility knock yourself out. A decade of posts about the same thing and consistent -- passion for improved gaming experiences.

It's hard to believe someone could actually be self-less and offers their time to the community and desires nothing in return. Don't want money, hardware, fame, part of a web-site, part of a company -- nothing but to share views with other passionate gamers out there in the world. That's my joy and attachment.

To answer your questions No, not part of any marketing group affiliated with nVidia, ATI or 3dfx in any way over the years.

Sound worse than PR because I am probably more passionate about gaming experiences than they are. Love this stuff and light up like a x-mas tree when talking about it.
Read what I said again. I think you missed my sarcasm in the first part of my post.
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 06:23 PM   #12
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It was simple for me when I was a Fanatic: Personally engaged them in debate without the petty cheap-shot discourse because their opinions may of differed from me.
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 06:41 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by caveman-jim View Post
Read what I said again. I think you missed my sarcasm in the first part of my post.
Sarcasm is tough to gauge at times, sorry! Actually, as I appreciate gamers' views on their experiences and thoughts on first hand evaluations but how they feel about me as a whole doesn't really matter. You can't make everyone like ya and there are always going to be some that don't.

My favorite views are when a gamer just receives their new hardware and so excited to share it with the community. Every gamer knows how that feels and one of my strengths, I believe is to try to target limitations and target worse case areas so I don't receive the negative surprises that may tarnish a purchase.

Marketing enjoys to shine spotlights -- but they don't like to cast shadows on their own hardware so my oddness in a lot of ways is to try to find out what PR doesn't want you to know about, hehe! But, discuss it rationally and with some constructive views by trying to evaluate the subjective pro's and con's.

Another key is why extremism is good: ATI is extreme about ATI and nVidia is extreme about nVidia -- so their PR's are good at supplying shadows or limitations about each other that actually does have some merit at times. It may not be constructive but it may make some aware of some limitations for both sides.

Strong sides banging heads is a great thing because this translates into great products and experiences to choose from. Actually, wouldn't want it any other way. I'll take the emotion and extremism in forums as long as the IHV's offer quality products improving gaming experiences. It's all good.
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 09:12 PM   #14
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I just wish we had more competition in the GPU market! Sucks only having two fanatic groups duke it out always stepping over their own nose or feet. Presently ATI rules
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Old Feb 12, 2010, 10:10 PM   #15
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I just wish we had more competition in the GPU market! Sucks only having two fanatic groups duke it out always stepping over their own nose or feet. Presently ATI rules

Yep and not too long ago, many were predicting nasty stuff for ATI/AMD and the world...err no the galaxy....ahh I mean the Universe for Nvidia. Im still a bit shocked at the turn and how well ATI executed in the last 3 gens and how difficult it has been for Nvidia during this time.
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 12:28 AM   #16
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Heh, can someone please enlighten me on these ties I have to Nvidia? Apparently I'm an Nvidia "source" too. The hilarity!
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 01:09 AM   #17
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I thought you worked for SIrPauly? So is the focus group type stuff no longer going on?
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 01:14 AM   #18
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From what I recall the Focus Group was frozen at four members and they had to publically disclose, but that doesn't mean other prominent forum goers aren't approached and brought into the program silently.
that explains why a long time ATi user like myself has been using NV cards for awhile. sshhhh

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there is no AEG focus group anymore
said the secret focus group member... oops.
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 01:29 AM   #19
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From what I recall the Focus Group was frozen at four members and they had to publically disclose, but that doesn't mean other prominent forum goers aren't approached and brought into the program silently.
Any proof to that or just guessing it occurs? Visit enough forums and you'll see those on both sides who only praise one while putting the other down.
Their constant love of one and hate of the other gets old fast.
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 01:33 AM   #20
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Any proof to that or just guessing it occurs? Visit enough forums and you'll see those on both sides who only praise one while putting the other down.
Their constant love of one and hate of the other gets old fast.
I think he was guessing unless he was personally approached silently
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 01:35 AM   #21
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He seemed to be stating it as a fact. It's why I asked if he had proof.
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 07:47 AM   #22
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I thought you worked for SIrPauly? So is the focus group type stuff no longer going on?
You really should spend some more time refining those thoughts of yours before sharing them with the public.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kowan View Post
Any proof to that or just guessing it occurs? Visit enough forums and you'll see those on both sides who only praise one while putting the other down.
Their constant love of one and hate of the other gets old fast.
Isn't it more like constant hate of Nvidia and constant not hating Nvidia? I see very few people actually going out of their way to diss AMD/ATi compared to the legion of Nvidia haters.
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 08:56 AM   #23
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I thought you worked for SIrPauly? So is the focus group type stuff no longer going on?
This is not constructive and just personal shots.

It's so simple: Both companies offer great points to me.

ATI: Proprietary offers division and fragmentation

nVidia: Proprietary offers innovation and choice when things are not ideal.

So, to be in the middle and use these great points is why I use my own thinking and reasoning:

While proprietary offers chaos, division and fragmentation there is innovation and choice for some, which hopefully makes consumers and developers aware of its potential, which may help to pave the way to create, offer, and to mature; standards that the industry may agree upon.

But, this is dismissed by some -- because it is too nVidia centric for some but to me sums it up.
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 09:25 AM   #24
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What has ATi done in recent memory that has been proprietary? You've got it completely backwards there. NV's the one with proprietary "innovations" like PhysX and TWIMTBP titles that disable features on competitor's hardware.

Keep in mind the last 6 cards I have purchased have been NV.
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 09:35 AM   #25
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What has ATi done in recent memory that has been proprietary?
DX 10.1, in a manner of speaking
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 09:38 AM   #26
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ShaidarHaran,

How does one get that from what I offered? Can't be more clear:

ATI view, imho: Proprietary offers chaos, division and fragmentation and I agree with it personally.
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 09:49 AM   #27
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Quote:
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ShaidarHaran,

How does one get that from what I offered? Can't be more clear:

ATI view, imho: Proprietary offers chaos, division and fragmentation and I agree with it personally.
Ok, I see what you're saying now. I misunderstood your comments previously. That would be the relative viewpoints of the respective companies, and there is some merit to each view.
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 09:57 AM   #28
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TWIMTBP titles that disable features on competitor's hardware.
Chaos, division and fragmentation are not ideal and neither is the Unreal Engine when it comes to AA. Two wonderful titles named Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock 2 don't offer an in-game AA for the PC in 2010. It would of been nice if an IHV was pro-active to have helped it get in there. Sure, in an ideal fashion it would be wonderful if an in-game AA was offered for both ATI and nVidia but wouldn't go bonkers if only ATI owners had the feature because some gamers enjoying the feature is better than none. My thinking: Don't allow ideal or perfect for all to be the enemy of good for some.

I wish I could just blink my eyes and live in this happy, joyful, idealistic world where nVidia and ATI gamers holding hands, dancing and singing to folk songs around a camp fire in this vast open environment.
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 11:34 AM   #29
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We have APIs for a reason though, and that is to ensure feature parity which would theoretically allow a game coded for the API in question to run on any hardware which supports the correct features. Game devs writing custom engines which don't strictly follow API spec are the reason games don't all support the same features, and run the same on all hardware.
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Old Feb 13, 2010, 11:46 AM   #30
Sound_Card
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I think this is also a good thread to mention ATi.

The ATi beta tester group has been closed for like a year now. Due to lay off's at AMD, the lead beta distributer, Steve Morris aka "CATALYSTcatcher" was part of the lay off's. Since then, we have been frozen.

Not that we are or were anything like the focus group.

Spyre still works very close with them though.

Funny thing, many beta testers had NV cards.
Testing the beta's simply on their media rigs or secondary PC's. We were not required to put anything in our sigs because we were not told to promote ATi. The only rule we had to follow was to not leak a beta.

I miss that work though.
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