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Old Mar 29, 2017, 03:25 PM   #1
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Kain
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Default 1800X or 7700K?

My brother is finally building a PC for the main/sole purpose of gaming. He wants the best CPU he can get now (within budget) because he knows he'll be keeping it for at least 4-5 years while upgrading the GPU every now and then. He's trying to decide between an 1800X and the 7700K. Since the main goal is good gaming performance, I recommended the 7700K. However, there is a buzz that with future optimizations, Ryzen could overtake the 7700K in gaming. Is this true?

Secondly, another reason I recommended the 7700K is because it is a more stable platform (currently). Ryzen has a few bugs here and there that I am sure will get ironed out but the 7700K platform is more stable/bug-free right now.

Here are the specs he is contemplating:

CPU: 7700K
Cooler: H100i v2
Fans for cooler: Noctua NF-12 PWM
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-Z270X-UD3
RAM: Dominator Platinum 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4 3000 MHz C15
GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB FTW GAMING ACX 3.0 (he currently has a 1680 x 1050 monitor and will upgrade monitor and GPU later on)
SSD: 850 EVO 250 GB
HDD: Caviar Black 2 TB
PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA 650 P2
Case: *still deciding but most likely Corsair 450D*

Budget: $1,500-$1,600.

The 1800X system will be identical except for the CPU and motherboard (and maybe RAM if it is not compatible with Ryzen).

By the way, anything on the 7740K? It uses the 2066 socket. He'll have a good upgrade path with this socket since he'll be able to upgrade to other HEDT CPUs if he wishes to in the future.
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Old Mar 29, 2017, 04:51 PM   #2
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Well, considering the BIOS's are getting better and RAM speeds are pretty much good to go @ 3200 now.. Its a toss up. lol.

For 100% gaming and no rendering or workstation work- 7700K.
For 50/50% gaming and rendering- 1700X (or 1800X, if he wants to splurge.. lol)

As for the cooler, if the case he gets supports it.. GET the H115i... spend the extra $20. It is worth it. You will see more temp headroom with overclocking. Especially during the summer.
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Old Mar 29, 2017, 05:18 PM   #3
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I would recommend R7 1800X but rather 1700 because you said he'll keep it for 4-5 years since AM4 socket will stays around till 2020. There'll be three tock of Zen: Zen, Zen+, and Zen++.

It'll be easier to swap CPU rather than replace both CPU and mobo unlike Intel.

And yes, there'll be a plenty optimization for Ryzen in the future from now.
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Old Mar 29, 2017, 06:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyordie View Post
Well, considering the BIOS's are getting better and RAM speeds are pretty much good to go @ 3200 now.. Its a toss up. lol.

For 100% gaming and no rendering or workstation work- 7700K.
For 50/50% gaming and rendering- 1700X (or 1800X, if he wants to splurge.. lol)

As for the cooler, if the case he gets supports it.. GET the H115i... spend the extra $20. It is worth it. You will see more temp headroom with overclocking. Especially during the summer.
I agree with this. Though I'd say save the money on the AMD side and just get a 1700 (non-X) no matter what. Also, get the fastest RAM you can justify price-wise, at least on Intel.
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Old Mar 29, 2017, 08:18 PM   #5
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I also would suggest going with the 1700 instead of the 1800X. Even with the stock cooler you should easily be capable of bumping the frequency to 3.7 GHz at around 1.25v (the stock setting for that speed on the 1800X). You could even save money by not getting the Corsair H110 if you don't push the voltage too high (the stock cooler is probably good for up to about 1.3v, and the diminishing returns after that point make it questionable whether to push further anyway).

The binning on the 1800X is slightly better, but the difference is fairly small. Overall you're looking at maybe 100 MHz higher all core boost at a given voltage with the 1800X, with a similar 100 MHz higher max speed (your mileage will vary, depending on the chip, but this is true on average). For the $170 savings that 100 MHz is pretty small.

The single core boost on the 1800X really isn't that important. In actual use you rarely see the single core boot happen because most applications now have at least some multi-threading. In any game you're almost certainly going to be running on at least 4 cores now.
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Old Mar 29, 2017, 08:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post
Fans for cooler: Noctua NF-12 PWM
I'd consider substituting the Fractal Design Venturi HP-120. It's a really solid fan. It moves a bit more air, and is very quiet and you save a few bucks compared to the Noctua.
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Old Mar 29, 2017, 09:55 PM   #7
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If it's mainly gaming 7700K. Still the best gaming performance for the money.
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Old Mar 29, 2017, 11:06 PM   #8
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7700K and also upgrade graphics to 1080
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Old Mar 30, 2017, 12:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by KAC View Post
7700K and also upgrade graphics to 1080
Funny really ... To support the competition where the intel overpriced flagship is really not needed imo is supporting you ... yourself KAC
Moving cash in AMD pocket will win you a new price on next gen Intel flagship...
If an I7 equivalent in the the R5 1400x format is almost half the price of 7700K there is a big question mark near Intel price basis.I am questioning like others the basis of Intel price of the flagship...

Anyway for the OP ... The Ryzen 5 series begun already to be sold on ebay before the official launch date...He can go safely for some years with 1600 and keep the rest of money in his pockets..In 4 years the chances may or may not become really unplayable on this cpu but he will shave more money for something else now...He can go with the cheapest R5 1600x that have out of box turbo of 4gb and upgrade to zen ++ later...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Ryzen-5-...421?rmvSB=true

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMD-Ryzen-5-...679?rmvSB=true
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Old Mar 30, 2017, 12:52 AM   #10
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I'd say Ryzen 5 1600X is the best value ATM. Same clocks as the 1800X but only $249. 12 threads are more than enough for current and upcoming games. Upgrade to a gen 2 8-core later if needed.
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Old Mar 30, 2017, 05:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyordie View Post
For 100% gaming and no rendering or workstation work- 7700K.
For 50/50% gaming and rendering- 1700X (or 1800X, if he wants to splurge.. lol)
This.

Ryzen is great for productivity, but not for games. The motherboards are also expensive and buggy compared to the equivalent Z270 boards - but they will get better with time.

I just upgraded to a 7700k as I mostly want to play games - rendering etc. is not part of my daily usage! The 7700k plus motherboard cost £50 less than the Ryzen 1700 plus X370 motherboard.

EDIT: You can see a better comparison between the CPUs in games here: http://www.techspot.com/review/1348-...g-performance/
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Old Mar 30, 2017, 08:26 AM   #12
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Looking at OP description 50 pounds is not big deal for the person wanting this rig...It talks about HEDT so money is not the problem.
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Old Mar 30, 2017, 12:31 PM   #13
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If your gaming at 2560*1440 its a no brainer get the Ryzen, at 1080 it is a toss up but I would still get Ryzen. I am waiting for the 1600X benchmarks before replacing my Haswell 4770K @4.4G
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Old Mar 30, 2017, 12:43 PM   #14
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As it stands, the 7700K is the king of gaming perf. Odds may start to favour the Ryzen more with time, but just remember that by that time, Intel will have new hardware too.
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Old Mar 30, 2017, 01:00 PM   #15
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Skip the H100i V2 and go with 280mm AIO.

7700k for 144hz\1440p\1080p gaming of course. With less potential headache.

Ryzen if you need multi threaded workloads and don't need the best performance for games.

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Old Mar 30, 2017, 01:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howard stern View Post
If your gaming at 2560*1440 its a no brainer get the Ryzen, at 1080 it is a toss up but I would still get Ryzen. I am waiting for the 1600X benchmarks before replacing my Haswell 4770K @4.4G
Not quite... 1440p is still not high enough resolution to shift the bottleneck almost entirely to the GPU, unlike 4k. The gap between 7700k and 1800x starts to close at this resolution, but there is still a gap.
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Old Mar 30, 2017, 01:47 PM   #17
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The people moaning about ryzen right now are folks trying to hit 3200. Kinda like hitting 3200 on x99 lol. Depends on a lot. Given your going on a 4-5 year cycle only ryzen makes sense. Games have already shown they can go past 4 cores. Considering consoles games using more cores in the next 4-5 years it only make sense. Now I would kinda advise against the 1800x. The 7700k is like 300 where I am better off with a 1700x or 1700 tbh. In terms of gaming performance give me a break. We are at best talking about numbers over 100fps @ 1080p. These reviewers need something to write about and that's the way i see it. If you are that concerned, a 7700k isnt better than a 7600k at 100 dollars less for gaming.


Intel's current line up of the 7700k and 7600k just does not make sense with ryzen 7 and ryzen 5 coming out shortly at it's current price point. Intel is hoping that people bite on this crappy gaming argument to brace onto until x299 drops this year. FFs we are seeing a quad core on x299. The mainstream and hedt prices for intel are closer than ever.
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Old Mar 30, 2017, 01:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycdarkness View Post
The people moaning about ryzen right now are folks trying to hit 3200. Kinda like hitting 3200 on x99 lol. Depends on a lot. Given your going on a 4-5 year cycle only ryzen makes sense. Games have already shown they can go past 4 cores. Considering consoles games using more cores in the next 4-5 years it only make sense. Now I would kinda advise against the 1800x. The 7700k is like 300 where I am better off with a 1700x or 1700 tbh. In terms of gaming performance give me a break. We are at best talking about numbers over 100fps @ 1080p. These reviewers need something to write about and that's the way i see it. If you are that concerned, a 7700k isnt better than a 7600k at 100 dollars less for gaming.
If his mainly gaming, than his better off with 7600k and putting the saving towards better graphics card.

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Old Mar 30, 2017, 02:23 PM   #19
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If his mainly gaming, than his better off with 7600k and putting the saving towards better graphics card.
I'd go with a 6600k even. Costs less, and runs cooler.
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Old Mar 30, 2017, 07:10 PM   #20
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If you had said 2 years, I would have said 7700K since I don't think any Ryzen variant now or future would make great strides in single-thread performance during that time.

But 5 years? I'd be thinking in 5 years you'd definitely be seeing improvements gaming-wise for multicore gaming. Now since both vendors will be introducing new hardware in the meantime, it would make sense to me to stick with the motherboard that has future upgrade ability so that you can simply swap out the processor if the need arises. So, I'm going AM4, but just put a 1700 (or 1600) in there, use the extra cash on a better graphics card/memory, and then you won't need to play Intel's crappy game of having to buy a whole new system each time they release a new processor.
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Old Mar 30, 2017, 07:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycdarkness View Post
I'd go with a 6600k even. Costs less, and runs cooler.
How does a 6600k cost less than a 7600k? They hold the same spot in the product lineup. Unless you're talking used...
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Old Mar 30, 2017, 08:10 PM   #22
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How does a 6600k cost less than a 7600k? They hold the same spot in the product lineup. Unless you're talking used...

Last week when I was at microcenter I saw it for 20 less not sure about other places.
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Old Mar 31, 2017, 12:44 AM   #23
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How does a 6600k cost less than a 7600k? They hold the same spot in the product lineup. Unless you're talking used...
And the second hand market....(They are still new but they are sold on "second hand" market)

In my country the i7 6700 is 240$ (don't remember if it's a k or not)
The 6600k is around 170$
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Old Mar 31, 2017, 01:45 AM   #24
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And the second hand market....(They are still new but they are sold on "second hand" market)

In my country the i7 6700 is 240$ (don't remember if it's a k or not)
The 6600k is around 170$
The i7 6700 non-K looks like a bad choice to me compared to Ryzen. It costs almost as much as the 1700, but doesn't really clock much higher since it's locked. You're looking at only 100-200 MHz max (unless your 1700 is a complete dud), but either way you're giving up four cores.

Personally, I wouldn't even consider the 6000 series at this point, nor any locked Intel processors. Kaby Lake overclocks a lot better than Skylake, and with a locked chip you give up the extra headroom that Intel offers anyway.
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Old Mar 31, 2017, 02:47 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
The i7 6700 non-K looks like a bad choice to me compared to Ryzen. It costs almost as much as the 1700, but doesn't really clock much higher since it's locked. You're looking at only 100-200 MHz max (unless your 1700 is a complete dud), but either way you're giving up four cores.

Personally, I wouldn't even consider the 6000 series at this point, nor any locked Intel processors. Kaby Lake overclocks a lot better than Skylake, and with a locked chip you give up the extra headroom that Intel offers anyway.
Keep in my mind that people are still biased toward better game performance from intel i7 skylake or kaby lake.Even 6700 gives almost full fps and at 240$ ("second hand" new) and easy, mature platform it is easy choice but the i5 6x00 are even cheaper if you use the same "source".Again it comes to mind if it's worth the i7 at this price for only gaming...And when r5 will land official the second hand market will become confused...
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Old Mar 31, 2017, 07:22 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by nycdarkness View Post
Last week when I was at microcenter I saw it for 20 less not sure about other places.
$20 is nothing. I burn $20s for heat in the winter.

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Originally Posted by badsykes View Post
And the second hand market....(They are still new but they are sold on "second hand" market)

In my country the i7 6700 is 240$ (don't remember if it's a k or not)
The 6600k is around 170$
As I said:

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How does a 6600k cost less than a 7600k? They hold the same spot in the product lineup. Unless you're talking used...
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Old Mar 31, 2017, 08:25 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran View Post
$20 is nothing. I burn $20s for heat in the winter.



As I said:
20 isn't alot of money but why pay 20 more for something that's essentially the same.
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Old Mar 31, 2017, 08:28 AM   #28
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So the OP can make a rig with 170$ cpu + 150$ decent board + 100-150$ decent ram and instead of 1060 he can have a fancy 1080...Also the prices just dropped for this vga.
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Old Mar 31, 2017, 08:49 AM   #29
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20 isn't alot of money but why pay 20 more for something that's essentially the same.
7600k OCs better than 6600k. I would pay $20 for that every day. And then some.
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Old Mar 31, 2017, 09:37 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by ShaidarHaran View Post
7600k OCs better than 6600k. I would pay $20 for that every day. And then some.
4 thread chips are a bad investment at this point. Intel can't bump clock speeds much higher, but they can easily throw more cores/threads at their mainstream processors. When 8+ thread chips are the new normal, you'll be at a significant disadvantage in games that exploit or require > 4 threads.
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