30 States hitting hybrid and electric car owners with new taxes

[logical]

Originally Posted by Renocide

City residents don't make up the vast majority of residents. I would even guess that the majority of city residents don't own a car at all.

You would be a bad guesser. Dont know where you live but we can check out US and Canada.

US: https://www.census.gov/programs-surv.../ua-facts.html

80.7%: Percent of the US population living within urban areas

Canada: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/dail...20209b-eng.htm

In 2021, nearly three in four Canadians (73.7%) lived in one of Canada's large urban centres, up from 73.2% five years earlier.

You might need to step out and move out of your bubble. You can probably extrapolate those numbers to any developed country, most residents will be living within a major city or urban area.

Originally Posted by Renocide

I stayed at a hotel once that had a plug in charging area and I saw no fee increase for the option. Companies offer incentives all the time and don't necessarily pass the cost on to customers.

Man hard hitting facts, you once went to some random place with a charging location for EVs and couldnt definitively say that you were or werent charged for their EV station Did you receive the itemized breakdown of why you were charged whatever it cost that night?

Its pretty clear EV is not ready for prime time in major cities where most of the population dwells. Most people dont own, the grid cant support it(check out texas, LA has rolling blackouts in the summer etc etc), and there arent enough charging stations. We know you EV guys love your **** but dont act like it doesnt have its problems. We wont see EV overtaking ICE in our lifetime.

[Silent-Runner]

once free charging areas like ALDI are canceling their free stuff and begin to charge customers, others will follow soon (of course). I'm not surprised.

Also the infrastructure for EVs still is a joke (over here).

[xCLAVEx]

Originally Posted by Silent-Runner

once free charging areas like ALDI are canceling their free stuff and begin to charge customers, others will follow soon (of course). I'm not surprised.

Also the infrastructure for EVs still is a joke (over here).

It's no better here in the U.S. either but some people just don't "get it".

[dodger]

Originally Posted by Silent-Runner

once free charging areas like ALDI are canceling their free stuff and begin to charge customers, others will follow soon (of course). I'm not surprised.

Also the infrastructure for EVs still is a joke (over here).

Wow our free grocery charging is Whole Foods and it's way way more expensive to shop there than at Aldi's. I can definitely see free charging going away as EV uptake increases (might still be free if they know you bought something or it's a perk at your workplace).

Also some manufactures offer "free" limited charging when you buy an EV from them:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/bmw-...e-ev-charging/

Electric BMWs Get Two Years Of Free 30-Minute Public Charging Sessions

Yeah the charging infrastructure is still much to be desired. I'd be more convinced we're making huge progress when they start ripping out a gas pump or two for a charger or two at most local gas stations. Still it is a work in progress.

[Silent-Runner]

Originally Posted by dodger

Wow our free grocery charging is Whole Foods and it's way way more expensive to shop there than at Aldi's. I can definitely see free charging going away as EV uptake increases (might still be free if they know you bought something or it's a perk at your workplace).

Also some manufactures offer "free" limited charging when you buy an EV from them:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/bmw-...e-ev-charging/

Electric BMWs Get Two Years Of Free 30-Minute Public Charging Sessions

Yeah the charging infrastructure is still much to be desired. I'd be more convinced we're making huge progress when they start ripping out a gas pump or two for a charger or two at most local gas stations. Still it is a work in progress.

the main problem isn't charging stations, it's the grid that isn't able to serve them (once there are a lot of EVs on our streets). Building enough charging stations is compared to that just a minor nuisance

[Lazy8s]

Chargehub provides a map that seems to be kept updated with current numbers and types of chargers in the US. I haven’t checked if it’s international or not…

https://chargehub.com/en/charging-stations-map.html

Boston has 555 officially listed, types 2 and 3, but most of the sites I looked at seemed to be placed for commuters. I have no idea if private charging stations can be pulled or not.

[Nunz]

New business idea:

Get a home charger, and start renting it out. AirBNB for EV charging.

This actually sounds like something that could work..

[xCLAVEx]

One thing I can go for on EV's is that it might finally get rid of those obnoxiously loud fart cans and v8's. No more douchbags revving their engine to measure their micro-peens. No engine to rev.

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by logical

You might need to step out and move out of your bubble. You can probably extrapolate those numbers to any developed country, most residents will be living within a major city or urban area.

Look at how the census is defining urban vs rural.

I technically live in a census defined "urban" area. I can literally drive a mile down the road and see a farm with cows. My subdivision is all single family homes with 2-3 car garages.

Your arrogance is astounding given the information you provided is highly misleading. Maybe it would be better to look at something like this:

https://www.nmhc.org/research-insigh...-demographics/

Or this

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-by-state-usa/

I'm not saying it won't be a problem for many renters/apartment dwellers but distorting the truth doesn't help your argument.

In general, some of these posts blow my mind. It's as if people think we can go from point A directly to Z without everything in between. We are very early on in the overall lifecycle/transition to EV's. To disregard or refuse to understand that is ignorant and irresponsible. It's certainly not very forward thinking.

I bet some of you would have been the horse and buggy owning naysayers during the original transition to automobiles.

Hell, even EV's shouldn't be the ultimate goal (if we are thinking 50-100 years or more). But it's a good start. The entire way people looks at infrastructure and transportation needs to change.

[logical]

Originally Posted by Nunz

New business idea:

Get a home charger, and start renting it out. AirBNB for EV charging.

This actually sounds like something that could work..

Theres gotta be something like that already. Rent an EV charging spot. If not make the App and get that shmoney and get into the upper middle class .....

Originally Posted by xCLAVEx

One thing I can go for on EV's is that it might finally get rid of those obnoxiously loud fart cans and v8's. No more douchbags revving their engine to measure their micro-peens. No engine to rev.

I need to measure my micro penis all the time Also, dont worry someone will hack the tesla at some point to play engine sounds out of the speakers on the outside of the car. Sort of like that christmas jingle they did with the light show on the tesla.

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Look at how the census is defining urban vs rural.

I technically live in a census defined "urban" area. I can literally drive a mile down the road and see a farm with cows. My subdivision is all single family homes with 2-3 car garages.

Your arrogance is astounding given the information you provided is highly misleading. Maybe it would be better to look at something like this:

https://www.nmhc.org/research-insigh...-demographics/

Or this

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-by-state-usa/

I'm not saying it won't be a problem for many renters/apartment dwellers but distorting the truth doesn't help your argument.

Im not distorting anything. That was a quick google.. Im not spending all day looking for knowledge thats pretty common. Urban areas, cities and such hold most of the population for developed countries and most of those people dont own even if they live in a house. Those numbers are rising every year with corps buying up houses and land while a ton others are being priced out of owning.


If most people just started buying full EVs today the grid would probably fail and you would never find an open charging spot. As I said before I am one of the biggest cities for EVs and Teslas in LA and there are lines here already waiting to charge. Thats with a ton of EV charging spots all over I cant imagine a place thats not as progressive being EV dominant.

[bill dennison]

Originally Posted by Nunz

New business idea:

Get a home charger, and start renting it out. AirBNB for EV charging.

This actually sounds like something that could work..

still going to overload the grid

a good 20kw Solar system is 50k+



......

[Nunz]

**** the grid!

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by logical

As I said before I am one of the biggest cities for EVs and Teslas in LA and there are lines here already waiting to charge. Thats with a ton of EV charging spots all over I cant imagine a place thats not as progressive being EV dominant.

It's funny you mention that, because in August I was down in LA for a week. I rented a Tesla through Turo for my time down there. Since I was a tourist, I also didn't have the benefit of having my own charger. It was never an issue. I never had to be in queue for a super charger. I would guess our daily travel was more than most residents. In fact, the experience was so pleasant that it was one of the major factors in purchasing one less than a month later.

If I was to complain about lines, it would be the ones at In-N-Out.

LOL

[bill dennison]

Originally Posted by Nunz

**** the grid!

sure fire up that pip boy 3000

i can't imagine what it would be like with the grid down for just a week

[xCLAVEx]

Originally Posted by logical

Also, dont worry someone will hack the tesla at some point to play engine sounds out of the speakers on the outside of the car. Sort of like that christmas jingle they did with the light show on the tesla.

Luckily, that takes quite a bit more technical skill than putting a straight pipe on your car and so the average idiot won't have that ability. It may happen, but would be far less common than what is currently a plague of noise, particularly in urban areas.

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by Nunz

**** the grid!

Is the grid really an issue?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmo...er-management/

[Nunz]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Is the grid really an issue?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmo...er-management/

Absolutely an issue. Plenty of cities experiencing brownouts and outages just from people using their AC during the summer.

We do need better management, but we also need more production. That's why solar panel incentives are being pushed so hard.. get extra power into the grid.

[logical]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

It's funny you mention that, because in August I was down in LA for a week. I rented a Tesla through Turo for my time down there. Since I was a tourist, I also didn't have the benefit of having my own charger. It was never an issue. I never had to be in queue for a super charger. I would guess our daily travel was more than most residents. In fact, the experience was so pleasant that it was one of the major factors in purchasing one less than a month later.

If I was to complain about lines, it would be the ones at In-N-Out.

LOL

In-n-out lines are definitely wild for a mediocre burger. But a trip to LA is not tantamount to living here and going places where normal residents would be.

Originally Posted by xCLAVEx

Luckily, that takes quite a bit more technical skill than putting a straight pipe on your car and so the average idiot won't have that ability. It may happen, but would be far less common than what is currently a plague of noise, particularly in urban areas.

Someone will sell a USB stick to plug in and make it happen. Needs to be me so I can get that Tesla money

[Sasquach]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Is the grid really an issue?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmo...er-management/

The grid is an issue, not so much now but down the line it could be.

The REAL solution is to generate more power, but utility companies (and by extension all companies really) are cheap as **** and wont do anything about it unless there is real RoI.

The bandaid solution is to manage the energy usage...like charging during offpeak hours (which in reality once there are more EV's the "offpeak" hours wont be offpeak because loads of EVs will be charging during that time...and then its peak EV charging time).

Alot of bandaid solutions/deal-with-it workarounds/lifehacks for EV ownership assumes EVERYTHING stays exactly as it is right now, which currently provides plenty of cost benefits for having EV. Once EV ownership becomes mainstream all the cost benefits dwindle because everything that is expensive for non-EV is just going to get shifted TO EV in some manner. In the end the cost benefit might still be there but its not nearly gonna be as high as it is now.

[Sasquach]

Originally Posted by xCLAVEx

One thing I can go for on EV's is that it might finally get rid of those obnoxiously loud fart cans and v8's. No more douchbags revving their engine to measure their micro-peens. No engine to rev.

STill love me the sound of a nice V8...just dont want it exhausted or straight piped and loud as **** though.

I had a car with a modded exhaust before, Dont think it was TOO Loud, and it still didnt sound particularly great (thought it sounded decent enough), but I eventually got sick of its boomy droning and loudness.

Plus now that im older i cant be bothered, its far more annoying than it used to be. Especially with 4 banger motors that NEVER sound good.

Ive contemplated putting an exhaust on my 86...mainly cuz i think it could use a beefier sound...but i dont think I'll bother...for the reasons stated above. I'll keep it stock and not be an annoying sound douche.

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by Sasquach

STill love me the sound of a nice V8...just dont want it exhausted or straight piped and loud as **** though.

I had a car with a modded exhaust before, Dont think it was TOO Loud, and it still didnt sound particularly great (thought it sounded decent enough), but I eventually got sick of its boomy droning and loudness.

Plus now that im older i cant be bothered, its far more annoying than it used to be. Especially with 4 banger motors that NEVER sound good.

Ive contemplated putting an exhaust on my 86...mainly cuz i think it could use a beefier sound...but i dont think I'll bother...for the reasons stated above. I'll keep it stock and not be an annoying sound douche.

I admit that sometimes I miss the burbles and pops of my Supra, the roar of my Mustang GT, and the boxer rumble of my WRX and STI. Heck, even my old SRT-4 sounded pretty wicked with full 3" catless exhaust.

There is something fun about being a total sleeper though with no noise or drama when you stomp on it.

[Sasquach]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

I admit that sometimes I miss the burbles and pops of my Supra, the roar of my Mustang GT, and the boxer rumble of my WRX and STI. Heck, even my old SRT-4 sounded pretty wicked with full 3" catless exhaust.

There is something fun about being a total sleeper though with no noise or drama when you stomp on it.

I dont know if it can be considered a sleeper if everyone knows an EV can totally curbstomp an ICE when it comes to acceleration.

But then again im assuming everyone (and not just car people) knows that an EV can curbstomp an ICE acceleration wise.

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by Sasquach

I dont know if it can be considered a sleeper if everyone knows an EV can totally curbstomp an ICE when it comes to acceleration.

But then again im assuming everyone (and not just car people) knows that an EV can curbstomp an ICE acceleration wise.

I would have thought that would be the case by now, but it's not what I have experienced. I tend to mind my own business (I'm also getting too old for such nonsense), but you'd be surprised how many random folks have tried to egg me on. So far it hasn't ended in their favor.

[xCLAVEx]

Alfa Romeo 4C Spider vs Tesla Model X...towing a 4C Spider.

[koralis]

Originally Posted by Sasquach

The grid is an issue, not so much now but down the line it could be.

The REAL solution is to generate more power, but utility companies (and by extension all companies really) are cheap as **** and wont do anything about it unless there is real RoI.
.

More power is needed, that is true, but it's only a partial solution. Distribution is also a problem. Current wiring can only handle so much juice at a time. Double or triple current consumption in a town and you may have issues even if you have all the power in the world to throw at it.

[Renocide]

Originally Posted by logical

You might need to step out and move out of your bubble. You can probably extrapolate those numbers to any developed country, most residents will be living within a major city or urban area.

I used the wrong term. What I was referring to is urban core.


Regardless people in these area's don't usually own cars. Meaning they wouldn't be adding to the drain on the grid.

Originally Posted by logical

Man hard hitting facts, you once went to some random place with a charging location for EVs and couldnt definitively say that you were or werent charged for their EV station Did you receive the itemized breakdown of why you were charged whatever it cost that night?

What I wrote was in response to no one was going to put EV charging stations at renter locations because they would charge extra to the tenants.

It's anecdotal but it's is true. I said I didn't get an itemized breakdown of the charges but they never asked me if I was going to use it. It was just there, I parked, and plugged in and the night stay charge wasn't something I noticed as being exceptionally high.

Originally Posted by logical

Its pretty clear EV is not ready for prime time in major cities where most of the population dwells. Most people dont own, the grid cant support it(check out texas, LA has rolling blackouts in the summer etc etc), and there arent enough charging stations. We know you EV guys love your **** but dont act like it doesnt have its problems. We wont see EV overtaking ICE in our lifetime.

I'm not saying it's "ready for prime time". I'm saying we can push the adoption of this technology to fix a lot of the problems we currently have.

The excuse of "why bother if it's not perfect" is dumb.

[Sasquach]

Originally Posted by Renocide

I used the wrong term. What I was referring to is urban core.


Regardless people in these area's don't usually own cars. Meaning they wouldn't be adding to the drain on the grid.




What I wrote was in response to no one was going to put EV charging stations at renter locations because they would charge extra to the tenants.

It's anecdotal but it's is true. I said I didn't get an itemized breakdown of the charges but they never asked me if I was going to use it. It was just there, I parked, and plugged in and the night stay charge wasn't something I noticed as being exceptionally high.



I'm not saying it's "ready for prime time". I'm saying we can push the adoption of this technology to fix a lot of the problems we currently have.

The excuse of "why bother if it's not perfect" is dumb.

I'll let the beta testers beta test the product first.

[Greasy]

Originally Posted by xCLAVEx

One thing I can go for on EV's is that it might finally get rid of those obnoxiously loud fart cans and v8's. No more douchbags revving their engine to measure their micro-peens. No engine to rev.

Nope. The sound of a V8 is just glorious. Mine is loud as ****, because I enjoy that sound. I don't give a damn about what anyone else thinks about it. I've always loved loud bikes and cars except 4 cylinders that aren't boxer engines. Nothing to do with peen. My truck has a 19 speaker 900+ WATT factory system that sounds amazing, but I would rather listen to that glorious roar.

That I will surely miss, but I can always pump in engine noise with an app in the future I guess.

[dodger]

Originally Posted by Greasy

Nope. The sound of a V8 is just glorious. Mine is loud as ****, because I enjoy that sound. I don't give a damn about what anyone else thinks about it. I've always loved loud bikes and cars except 4 cylinders that aren't boxer engines. Nothing to do with peen. My truck has a 19 speaker 900+ WATT factory system that sounds amazing, but I would rather listen to that glorious roar.

That I will surely miss, but I can always pump in engine noise with an app in the future I guess.

Haha that's boombox mode in the Tesla. I've been looking but haven't found anyone that made a Tesla sound like a horse clopping/galloping with it neighing at a complete stop. I know the coconuts setting is similar.

[bill dennison]

Originally Posted by Greasy

Nope. The sound of a V8 is just glorious. Mine is loud as ****, because I enjoy that sound. I don't give a damn about what anyone else thinks about it. I've always loved loud bikes and cars except 4 cylinders that aren't boxer engines. Nothing to do with peen. My truck has a 19 speaker 900+ WATT factory system that sounds amazing, but I would rather listen to that glorious roar.

That I will surely miss, but I can always pump in engine noise with an app in the future I guess.

can't stand that crap
i had open headers on my K5 Blazer for a few months
too loud couldn't hear the 1000 watt Fosgate Electronics amp

i think i would rather enjoy all sounds for the rest of my life instead of being deaf