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Old Apr 3, 2021, 04:30 PM   #1
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Och
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Default Opinion on the 11900?

Not the 11900K, but specifically 11900. It is listed as a 65w part, vs 125w for the 11900k. It has hyperthreading and the rest of the features of the K model, except for overclocking, which is getting relatively irrelevant lately.

The biggest difference seems to be 2.5ghz vs 3.5ghz base clock, but turbo frequencies are within 100mhz of each other. I am trying to understand what is the catch here? My main priority is the 65w, as I like to stick with a low profile Noctua cooler. I understand that the K cpus that are listed at 125w can often consume over 200w, is this also going to be the case for the 11900 when running at full turbo frequencies?
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Old Apr 3, 2021, 07:03 PM   #2
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If it can continuously turbo in the same way the k model can, there will be little to no difference. The trick with Intel platforms is figuring out which restrictions they have built in.


Be wary of things like limiting memory speeds too.
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Old Apr 3, 2021, 07:28 PM   #3
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I just read up some info, and it turns out that even a 10700 can consume 225 watt at full turbo, which means the 11900 can consume even more. This is utterly misleading for intel to list it as a 65w part. I built a computer for a close friend last year, using the 10700, and thinking that it is a 65w part I used a Noctua NH-L9x65, which is a small, low profile cooler. I hope they dont have issues down the road.
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Old Apr 3, 2021, 09:37 PM   #4
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Just did more reading, and it seems ryzens consume half the power of comparable intels. I guess its the 14nm vs 7nm. No way I am upgrading until intel gets 7nm chips.
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 02:02 AM   #5
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From my short time with a 10900F, I can say that you can definitely override the power limits, but as far as I can tell you can't override the boost frequency limits (whether directly, using MCE or any other method).

I briefly had a 10900F drawing 500w of power in Prime 95 small FFTs. That was way beyond the standard power limit for the processor and I maintained it long enough that the short term boost should have expired. It ended up being throttled by the motherboard VRM overheating, not the standard power limits. Obviously due to the absolutely insane power draw, and the fact the VRM was bordering on overheating, I didn't maintain that for more than a few minutes.

Unfortunately, in things like gaming, the load on the CPU isn't actually that extreme and you're not that heavily power limited. In that situation overriding the power limits by itself while not being able to adjust the boost frequency just doesn't help you that much.

Personally I would not recommend any of the non-K parts unless you absolutely don't intend to overclock, and by overclock I include even using MCE (sets all core boost equal to single core boost).
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 02:07 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Och View Post
I just read up some info, and it turns out that even a 10700 can consume 225 watt at full turbo, which means the 11900 can consume even more. This is utterly misleading for intel to list it as a 65w part. I built a computer for a close friend last year, using the 10700, and thinking that it is a 65w part I used a Noctua NH-L9x65, which is a small, low profile cooler. I hope they dont have issues down the road.
They shouldn't have any problems if for no other reason than the CPU will throttle down if it starts overheating. If you didn't override the stock power limits the CPU should also drop down close to its rated TDP after about 120 seconds, if I recall correctly.

AMD Ryzen CPUs are arguably more "honest" about their TDP limits, since they don't have a short term limit where the CPU can exceed its rated TDP.
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 07:44 AM   #7
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Problem is people think that Intel = heat, but in my experience the only time that was true was when using Prime 95 and insane settings.

For me my AMD is actually hotter, but undervolting at least seems to fix it a little.
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 08:07 AM   #8
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AMD runs way hotter than anything I have used from Intel.
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 08:40 AM   #9
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I can't say that I have stressed my 10900KF much yet by at 5GHz temps are in the upper 60s under load.
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 08:50 AM   #10
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After using a 10700 non k I really think people oversell the overclocking crap. The processor is pushing the Gs just fine and taking names.
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 08:52 AM   #11
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After using a 10700 non k I really think people oversell the overclocking crap. The processor is pushing the Gs just fine and taking names.
I would assume Intel is binning chips and those that barely make the cut are locked and the rest are the Ks?
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 08:54 AM   #12
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I would assume Intel is binning chips and those that barely make the cut are locked and the rest are the Ks?
Yup think so. It runs 4.7 Gs all core. Can’t complain. Yes 5.1 Gs is better but in real world gaming at 1440P I can’t tell a difference.
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 09:08 AM   #13
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Yup think so. It runs 4.7 Gs all core. Can’t complain. Yes 5.1 Gs is better but in real world gaming at 1440P I can’t tell a difference.
Agreed. I keep laughing at the thought of Intel now being the value CPU.
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 09:10 AM   #14
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Ah, good to see the veil of "Intel runs hot!!" Is finally being washed away
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 09:45 AM   #15
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So wait, a Ryzen at 120W can be running hotter than Intel at 220w? How is it even possible?
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 09:58 AM   #16
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Which memory would you guys get for a 11900/k? Intel lists it at 3200, and in my experience in the past with skylake/coffee lake, which ran anywhere from 2333 to 2933, it was difficult to overclock memory to anything over 3200. On my wifes 8086k, the system is unstable if I select XMP profile which sets the memory to 3200 and overclock the CPU at the same time. If I run the CPU at default clock, then I can set XMP.

So if 11th gen Intels support 3200 default memory speed, its probably better to go with at least 3800? What is the popular choice these days?
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 10:04 AM   #17
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I have 3600 running at XMP. KAC has his to 3733 (I think) and Nunz 4000?
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 10:14 AM   #18
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I have 3600 running at XMP. KAC has his to 3733 (I think) and Nunz 4000?
I was just looking at newegg, and it seems that there is a pretty wide spread in pricing for different memory at the same clock. For instance, 32gb of 3200 can be had for $150 or over $300, even from the same brands. And there are so many brands and models, how do I know I'm getting quality parts?
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 10:43 AM   #19
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I was just looking at newegg, and it seems that there is a pretty wide spread in pricing for different memory at the same clock. For instance, 32gb of 3200 can be had for $150 or over $300, even from the same brands. And there are so many brands and models, how do I know I'm getting quality parts?
Well the thing with RAM is what chips does it have and how well they OC, if that's your thing. Also, you want say 3600 but with as low timings as possible. Lots of choices.

Others here (Nagorak, Nunz) can assist with RAM much better than I can.
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 11:07 AM   #20
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Quote:
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AMD runs way hotter than anything I have used from Intel.
Are you speaking about their current CPU or your previous experience? guru3d's 11900k review shows Amd 5800/5900 uses less power per core and package than intel. Anandtech and tomshardware handbrake test also show intel consuming more power. How does Intel higher total power package end up running cooler than AMD 5000 cpu?
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 11:10 AM   #21
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The cpu die is larger, thus making it easier to dissipate the heat.

But AFAIK, the i7 11900k is running hotter than ryzen 3xxx/5xxx.
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 01:05 PM   #22
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They shouldn't have any problems if for no other reason than the CPU will throttle down if it starts overheating. If you didn't override the stock power limits the CPU should also drop down close to its rated TDP after about 120 seconds, if I recall correctly.

AMD Ryzen CPUs are arguably more "honest" about their TDP limits, since they don't have a short term limit where the CPU can exceed its rated TDP.
I think I will at the very least have them upgrade the fan on the cooler. Noctua NH-L9x65 is using a 92mm x 14mm fan, I will have them upgrade it to a full 92mm x 25mm to push more air.

I wish Noctua would make an AIO. From what I understand, all the AIOs on the market are using crappy pumps made by the same chinese company, and the only thing they upgrade are the senseless RGB effects on the fans and pumps.
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 01:17 PM   #23
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My 8 year old AIO is still alive.

Plus Corsair use Aestek pumps, which are Danish, but no idea where they are manufactured.
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 10:00 PM   #24
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As a side note, the 65W TDP is just the amount of the total power that ends up as heat. It is not the total power draw (which is way higher).

Even the TDP goes out the window if you have the ability to blow out the power limits.

The Ryzens may be more efficient in overall draw this time around, but only slightly.
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Old Apr 4, 2021, 11:53 PM   #25
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Problem is people think that Intel = heat, but in my experience the only time that was true was when using Prime 95 and insane settings.

For me my AMD is actually hotter, but undervolting at least seems to fix it a little.
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AMD runs way hotter than anything I have used from Intel.
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So wait, a Ryzen at 120W can be running hotter than Intel at 220w? How is it even possible?
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Originally Posted by 0091/2 View Post
Are you speaking about their current CPU or your previous experience? guru3d's 11900k review shows Amd 5800/5900 uses less power per core and package than intel. Anandtech and tomshardware handbrake test also show intel consuming more power. How does Intel higher total power package end up running cooler than AMD 5000 cpu?
Ryzen 3000/5000 may run hotter because the 7nm process means there is less surface area to transfer the heat to the heatspreader and then into the heatsink. (FWIW, my 5900X doesn't run particularly hot but maybe having two 6 core dies helps?)

In terms of actual volume of heat pumped into the room, that comes down to how much overall power the CPU is drawing. In general that will be higher on Intel's current 14nm processors, but under moderate load like gaming the difference is not that huge.

However, the difference in why the CPU is running hot is important to understand, because if the problem is transfer to the heatsink then there is no point in ramping up your heatsink fan to insane levels to try to compensate: it won't do anything because the issue isn't that the heatsink itself is running hot. Likewise getting a larger cooler in that case isn't likely to make a significant difference (switching to water from air may allow for faster heat transfer up to a point). Basically you just have to tolerate a bit higher temperature with these smaller process CPUs. It will be the same with Intel once they finally get 10nm working.

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The Ryzens may be more efficient in overall draw this time around, but only slightly.
I'd argue that Ryzen is a fair bit more efficient, it just doesn't really come into play in gaming where the CPU load generally isn't that high and the GPU power draw ends up making up the majority of the power being pulled. So, for example, if your GPU is drawing 300w, and your CPU is drawing 60w vs 100w, the end result is only as difference of 360w vs 400w (just using arbitrary numbers that sort of reflect what I've seen with my systems). Also at idle/low low, both CPUs can power down and run in their most efficient frequency/voltage range so it also makes little difference (Ryzen 3000/5000 have a bit of an hyperactive boost too).

For most people's purposes the difference isn't that important, but in a situation where you will have high sustained CPU load, like rendering, then it is something that you need to start considering since it can make a legitimate difference in your power bill.

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Old Apr 5, 2021, 12:23 AM   #26
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I was just looking at newegg, and it seems that there is a pretty wide spread in pricing for different memory at the same clock. For instance, 32gb of 3200 can be had for $150 or over $300, even from the same brands. And there are so many brands and models, how do I know I'm getting quality parts?
If I were you I'd skip the 11900K. At least get the 11700K instead. The premium for the 11900K is too high for what it offers.

With memory it can be confusing. Memory overclocking is a pretty deep rabbit hole to go down, so I don't know how much you want to? You can get up to 15-20% performance in CPU limited situations by fully tweaking your memory, but it's also a lot of work. Also in situations like gaming that extra performance often doesn't come into play because you'll just be GPU limited anyway.

If you're not going to tweak your memory then it's not really worth buying expensive memory, IMO, as the motherboard will configure an expensive kit or a cheaper kit with the same secondary timings either way.

I'd probably recommend simply getting Crucial Ballistix 3600 CL16 either 16 GB (2x8) or 32 GB (2x16). From a price/performance standpoint it's a good value, and it can still be tweaked fairly well if you want.

If you have an Intel processor and it won't run 3200 MHz or 3600 MHz memory, you may need to increase your VCCIO and VCCSA voltage, or possibly your memory voltage (sometimes the default 1.35v of XMP is not enough and you need 1.4v to stabilize it). Also, if you have cheap motherboard, or just one with poorly designed traces to the memory, that can limit what speed you can do. I'd still be surprised if you can't do at least 3600 MHz with Intel on even a pretty poor motherboard. I don't know, maybe on like a $50 board you'll have problems? Once you exceed 3600 MHz you are more likely to run into board limitations, but mobo manufacturers also seem to have gotten better at designing their boards to support higher frequency memory, so it may not be as much of an issue now as it was in the past.

Last edited by Nagorak : Apr 5, 2021 at 12:34 AM.
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Old Apr 5, 2021, 02:56 AM   #27
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My 5900x pushes 83-85 C in CPU heavy workloads. This is with a 360 AIO in push/pull and open case side panel.

In comparison my 10700 doesn’t break 72 C with 240 mm AIO without push/pull in a smaller but open case.

Pretty sure a 10900K or 11900K will run in the mid 70s in similar conditions.
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Old Apr 5, 2021, 03:54 AM   #28
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The die is pretty tiny compared to the heat spreader which doesn't help. Only thing that helped for me was undervolting.
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Old Apr 5, 2021, 04:25 AM   #29
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I do run CO at -10 all core. Doesn’t make much difference. I ran it with a few more cores at -20 and it worked fine until I got my 3090 and started having crashes. So now I am back to -10. Either way we are talking about 1-2 C deltas and mostly above 80 C gaming performance unlike all the Intels I have had.
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Old Apr 8, 2021, 05:35 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Och View Post
Which memory would you guys get for a 11900/k? Intel lists it at 3200, and in my experience in the past with skylake/coffee lake, which ran anywhere from 2333 to 2933, it was difficult to overclock memory to anything over 3200. On my wifes 8086k, the system is unstable if I select XMP profile which sets the memory to 3200 and overclock the CPU at the same time. If I run the CPU at default clock, then I can set XMP.

So if 11th gen Intels support 3200 default memory speed, its probably better to go with at least 3800? What is the popular choice these days?
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Originally Posted by acroig View Post
I have 3600 running at XMP. KAC has his to 3733 (I think) and Nunz 4000?
I have mine running at 3772 CL16 also with minimal effort and a CPU OC to go with it.
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