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Old Feb 17, 2001, 07:18 PM   #1
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Dolemite
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Seriously, I can't think of any product that as many people will praise or bash based on little more than brand name other than video cards. I mean, I know people who will only buy one kind of car, or only buy american cars (dumbasses!) but they don't hang out on message boards telling everyone that the car they have is wonderful and everyone else's cars suck. What is the source of this phenomenon? I don't quite know. Everybody wants to have the best stuff and when they go out and spend money on new stuff they want to like it and want other people to like it too. I understand that, but that can't quite explain the fanaticism that I see all over the net in respect to video cards. This really doesn't make any sense to me. When you think about it, there are few products that are so incredibly uniform across board independent of brand. Whether a card is made by Nvidia, 3Dfx, or ATI (from an outside perspective) makes little difference. Each card must implement and comply to the same standards in order to render Direct3D and OpenGL. I wonder how many of us could distinguish the difference between a Geforce2, Voodoo5, or ATI Radeon running the same game with the same settings on 3 identical systems?

Oftentimes someone post a message asking for recommendations on what card to get, then people will recommend different card, and then a fight ensues over what card/chip/brand is the best. I've seen it here, I've seen it all over the place. There's nothing necessarily wrong with this until people start making blind recommendations ignoring the advantages of the card they don't have and hyping their own card while ignoring its disadvantages.

Anyway, I just wanted to see if you guys are noticing this. It should be most obvious with respect to ATI, since they've had pretty nasty reputation among gamers but have recently come out with the Radeon, a very good card. BTW, this is just an observation, its is not directed at anyone in particular or at this forum. In fact, I've seen some of the most level-headed and honest recommendations here.
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Old Feb 17, 2001, 07:21 PM   #2
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How about CPUs? ^__^
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Old Feb 17, 2001, 07:26 PM   #3
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Good point, Zero. Ironically the video card situation may soon mirror the CPU situation with 2 major manufacturers dominating each respective industry. Personally, I've always had Intel CPUs but always wanted to have an AMD just to "stick it to the man," but I doubt that AMD is any less of an evil coporate giant than intel, I'd just like to think so.
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Old Feb 17, 2001, 08:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolemite
I know people who will only buy one kind of car, or only buy american cars (dumbasses!)
What you don't like American cars....
What about old muscle cars?
The 87'GrandNational/GNX, The 2001 Mustang Cobra,
SS Z28 Camaro, Come on man you just showed your biased too!
fUUck imports!
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Old Feb 17, 2001, 09:27 PM   #5
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hehe, if I were gettin a car, I'd go American (I'm Canadian, but what the heck) becuase if both prodcuts are the same, I'd rather support the North American economy. But if a car from Germany or Japan or even Korea was better, or a better value, I'd go for it.

Some people think that Japanese cars are all good and American cars are all bad, and that's so sad. You know, Americans are so open to imports, but in Japan, NOBODY buys american cars. Not because they're all bad cars, but because they're EXTREMELY loyal.

Same goes with vid cards sort of. People who were blown away by the Voodoo2 became fanatics and fought with the Voodoo5 to the death. the Nvidia is often the same. I hope ATI owners are more reasonable and are able to look at the real issue. I bought a Voodoo3 because it was a great deal and it was a great card. Same with my Radeon.

[Edited by bhw752k on 02-18-2001 at 01:18 AM]
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Old Feb 17, 2001, 09:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Come on man you just showed your biased too!
fUUck imports!
Well, I didn't mean to start a discussion about cars, but to set the record straight, I've got nothing against american cars (especially the classic muscle cars). I just know quite a few people (mostly old and uneducated) who will absolutely never buy a foreign car, and that seems rather ignorant given the reliability record of most american cars. BTW, I agree, all things being equal I would rather support the American economy but I'm more concerned about my own economy, i.e. the money I'll be putting into a car. Actually, the country where a car company resides doesn't matter too much since many Japanese and some European cars sold in the US are built here too. So the only $$$ going overseas is what would go to "the Man" anyway, so does it matter that "the Man" is in a different country? I don't think it does.

Anyway, I think categorically refusing to buy foreign cars even though they may or may not be better is somewhat similar to the vid card situation. Here are some recent quotes taken right here from this forum:

"It'll be ATI all the way from this point on."

"I will never buy N..., that is why my next card will problably be an ATI Radeon."

Some people would rather cut off their left testicle (well, maybe not) rather than buying a certain brand of video card, even if it is the better card. I think thats fuct. I'll buy any brand, whatever's best.
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Old Feb 17, 2001, 10:06 PM   #7
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I would cut off a finger for a 70' Cuda with a 426 Hemi and 4speed
My favorite game is UT right now and has been since it came out....HalfLife too! I just expected more outa my Radeon in UT? Oh well its a good card and I'm happy with it.... all the new games coming out will run great with it! Quake3 does!


[Edited by NEVERLIFT on 02-17-2001 at 11:10 PM]
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Old Feb 17, 2001, 10:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
I just expected more outa my Radeon in UT?
Yeah, that's more UT than the Radeon. Epic has never really delivered on their promise to bring the Unreal/UT Direct3D renderer up to GLIDE speed. Hopefully by the time Unreal Warfare is released they will have dealt with that (I mean, they've only had 2 1/2 years so far!).
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Old Feb 17, 2001, 11:01 PM   #9
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umm there are A LOT of car messageboards with this type of behavior.. i think its a lot worse than computer parts (ie video card).. go check out http://www.clubsi.com .. thats famous for it (if you end up actually checking it out, the best "fights" are in the "Si vs All" forum)



Quote:
Originally posted by Dolemite
but they don't hang out on message boards telling everyone that the car they have is wonderful and everyone else's cars suck
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 02:12 AM   #10
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The problem is (aside from a know-it-all kid saying he knows what the problem is) is that people associate products with other things, like brand name and image, automobile brands and national economy...

Also, the deal with video cards and cpus and cars generating extreme loyalty is that the market is limited in both supply or choice. What I mean is, we have two major manufacturers for vid cards and cpus and we have a dichotomy of domestic/foreign car types. These products cost a lot of money and people are hard on how they spend their cash. So when you make a choice, you stick with it.

Personally I think it's a sign of a culture determined by its commerce structure, and I am saddened at living in such a society.

As for "sticking it to the man", Dolemite prolly had it right when he implied the AMD is just as much the man as intel. And the video card market is a giant "the man", seeing as there's barely any sign of competition (oligopoly?).

Also, by buying domestic and supporting your national economy, you're not necessarily guaranteed a positive outcome. For example, firms that sell good products sell more and do better. If you support a firm that offers products of a lesser quality level than its competitors, you would be cutting the chances of that firm making better products in the future. I dunno if you'd call this Social Darwinism, but the best stay alive and the bad have to raise their quality level. In the end, I don't think the automobile industry will ever be of much impact on economy, as all things are cyclic in nature; you'll have good years and bad years, so buy what you want!

... Umm whoa, I need to get out more... ^__^

On that note, ATI, AMD and Jag for me!
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 09:36 AM   #11
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just gotta say one thing here about cars. in japan, they do not buy american cars, not because of brand loyalty(totally) , but because the japanese government posts such huge import tariffs on imported (particularly American) cars. this cost is then passed onto the consumer to place that American made car out of most people's price limit. this used to be a big issue in the early nineties when the USA and others were sinking into a recession. but now - due to economic growth, the USA hasnt particularly needed to go after japanese legislatures inorder to gain profits or to help the economy. i dont know what this had to do with video card brand loyalty but it is an interesting bit of information.
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 10:18 AM   #12
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Well I would only buy american cars because its bull that the U.S allows Japanesse imports but japan wont let any imports sell form the U.S into japan without high tariffs.
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 11:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by maniac_35
Well I would only buy american cars because its bull that the U.S allows Japanesse imports but japan wont let any imports sell form the U.S into japan without high tariffs.
So even if the imported car was better in all ways, and assuming the impact on the economy was negligible, you'd still only buy domestic??

I have a feeling that the tariff put on American cars in japan also occur elsewhere in the world, like why Benz's are so goddamned expensive here but are a lot cheaper in Europe.

Either that or the Japanese auto industry is pitching an american car as a luxury item... who knows?
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 12:00 PM   #14
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there's a higher demand for mercedes over here than in europe actually... everyone wants one but there is not nuff to go around so they raise the price so only a manageable number of people can buy them. I persoanlly would never buy a japanese car because generally they are light, and not very safe. Now look at something like Mercedes or Audi, theyre cars are tanks weighing bout 2 times as much as any japanese cars. Thats also the reason they only get 25-30 mpg... but hey :P.
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 01:02 PM   #15
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It`s just than the Radeon has so much going for it. Everyone here said how great the desktop looked when they put their card in for the first time. They felt the same way playing games too.*

On the other hand, there are some Nvidia cards that don`t display the colors right- a washed out screen. I`ve seen it, in a racing game. The graphics is smooth; the reflection on the car paint flows with the scenery... but something`s just missing. I felt like I`d rather play a SNES racing game on TV. The only thing going for them is speed.

I`ve been in a Firebird with 325 hp, but is it fun to drive? Only for the first couple of times. I`d choose a car that handles better over the Firebird anyday.

*if they work without glitch. It`s software. Improvements are convenient.

PS My theory on why they`re so many Nvidiots is this color thing that`s lacking on their vid. displays. They defend the card`s performance because having paid big bucks for it, it`s missing one of the basic qualities of a video card.
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 01:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yata
I`ve been in a Firebird with 325 hp, but is it fun to drive? Only for the first couple of times. I`d choose a car that handles better over the Firebird anyday.
LOL
The Trans AM/Firebirds handle great just get the WS6 handling package.... good grife you don't know jack!
These cars handle good the way they are get the WS6 package and you will be eating curves for damn sure!
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 02:32 PM   #17
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The new BMW M3 will eat the Firebird, no matter what handling package you have on it. Reason for this? A Euorpean car will ALWAYS without fail thrash an American car through the bends.

But before you get all defensive, there is a perfectly good reason for this. There are more corners on European roads. Simple really.
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 04:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kennef
I persoanlly would never buy a japanese car because generally they are light, and not very safe. Now look at something like Mercedes or Audi, theyre cars are tanks weighing bout 2 times as much as any japanese cars.
I'm sorry to everyone who wants this thread dead, but about cars beign too light or too heavy... Isn't the design more important than the mass? A light car could potentially be more fragile but a heavy car would have more momentum during impact. I think you need a car thats well built to withstand collisions (ie crumple zones and other such features), so I would discount buying a car based on mass and equating that with safety! Besides, saftey is the responsibility of the driver, not the car!

On the other hand, I am spoiled and get to drive a nice Lexus GS400 around, which is Japanese, properly weighted, nimble and quick, now THAT's a car! (yeah, yeah, there's better but you gots to roll with what you got) ^__^
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 06:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi
The new BMW M3 will eat the Firebird, no matter what handling package you have on it. Reason for this? A Euorpean car will ALWAYS without fail thrash an American car through the bends.

But before you get all defensive, there is a perfectly good reason for this. There are more corners on European roads. Simple really.
Man I'm a HOTROD freak! I know how to modify my car and build the $hit out of a motor. Lets see fat sway-bar, firm shocks and you get better handling. But I have seen old muscle cars built that will eat any new car! And Have seen some new cars modified so that they will smoke too plus get good gas mileage! LOL
Its never ending and all you need is money!

And you need to watch Motor Trend TV and you would know how sweet some of these new cars are! The 2001 Cobra Mustang was damn near awesome! And the new Vette hell its street legal and does 223mph and eats curves for breakfast!

Man please don't get me started about cars....
I'm done hope you get the point and no rice burner will ever compare to good ole American muscle cars!!!!!!!
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 06:11 PM   #20
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Consoles are the worst, period. especially in this generation, before we were used to sega&nintendo living together, but with sony and microsoft now in the race, its wild on message boards about consoles.
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 06:21 PM   #21
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Yeah... try your crumple zone **** on an old 50's caddy... or even a 60's or 70's... They use the crumple zones so they can use the lighter metals because its cheaper to do that... For handling it has to do more with wheel spread and center of gravity, Audi Quattro/BMW z3 would both slap the hell out of a thunderbird in handling.
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 06:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
yeah, yeah, there's better but you gots to roll with what you got
Oh man, a GS400, I feel your pain! I guess you'll just have to make do.

* HEAVY SARCASM *
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 06:26 PM   #23
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Dude did you say Thunderbird? wahahahahaha
Its Firebird.

Man I have seen old 77' Trans Ams and 69'-70' models too that would bitch slap any new car!!!!!! And run the quarter mile in under 11secs...... Wants some come get some!!!!!!
Stupid a$$
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 09:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kennef
Yeah... try your crumple zone **** on an old 50's caddy... or even a 60's or 70's... They use the crumple zones so they can use the lighter metals because its cheaper to do that... For handling it has to do more with wheel spread and center of gravity, Audi Quattro/BMW z3 would both slap the hell out of a thunderbird in handling.
Totally agree, but the issue we were talking about was safety, not handling.

Dolemite: hey, I never said it was a *bad* ride ^__^
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 11:34 PM   #25
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Only problem with the newer BMWs (especially the 3 series) is that they're more front heavy than in the tail end of the car, so they'll actually sway more during tight turns at a faster speed, with or without the new "auto traction control" crap, or whatever it is, on. Of course, you can remedy this with the right additions to the car, just the only problem in this regard as far as Bimmers go, is where to find parts for the Bimmers of the world.

Personally, I'm more of a style/finesse guy instead of brute force/speed, so I'd have to dig into the European trenches on this one. Sure, given the chance I'd love to have something like a Supra TT or a classic Mustang (60's of course), but I'm more of an Audi/BMW man myself. One quick question, do you think there's enough room in a M3 coupe's engine bulkhead to put in a super/turbo? At least a single stage, but upwards of a five stage would be nice...
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Old Feb 18, 2001, 11:43 PM   #26
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Well Personally Im a American Car guy.................BUT no matter HOW you look at it 95% of OUR AMERICAN CAR Componets ARE NOT made IN AMERICA


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Old Feb 19, 2001, 01:06 AM   #27
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Turbos or the best!!!!!!!!!
Man they are awesome just look at the GrandNationals/GNX's!!!
67-69' Stangs or cool as hell too....have you seen
Gone In 60secs the new remake with Cage in it?
But you know the Roadrunner and Cuda's or the BOMB!!!!!!!
I really get into this hotrod thing and custom cars!
Nothing like making your car better.... just like upgrading your computer you can also upgrade your car...... Nitros!!!!
Bigger cam, get the heads worked bigger valves! etc...
lower gears in the rearend.... ya man its all good!!!!
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Old Feb 19, 2001, 02:43 AM   #28
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honestly, i come from a "chevrolet / gmc" family ... my aunts & uncles included... so yeah, my general preferance will be a GM product... part of it is that, and the other half of it comes from experiance ...


my mother had a '84 plymouth reliant (brand new & owned for 10 yrs) which happend to be a lemon... (so she wanted to be different...)

then she got a 2yr used '92 Hyundai Elantra Gl ... that was an ok car for handling (the 1.6 liter 4 cyl sohc was gutless though), but the repairs were pricey and limited in which places fixes 'em ... that was all fine until getting rear-ended by a Suzuki/Isuzu/GMC Tracker that had equiped front offroad steel bumper ... i can't belive how sturdy & heavy that tracker was compared to the hyundai since the tracker was only 1/2 the hyundai's size! there was aprox a 30 km/h difference in speed on colision.

after that, no more jap/korean imports... decided to to domestic and got a used '89 gmc sierra slx pickup (4.3 liter V6)...

I'm happy to say that i enjoy the sierra... handles well, & its good on gas for a 1/2 ton... even gotten 2 small rear-ends and hardly noticed them, and no noticable damage, even by a truck of the same size... pure steel bumpers

So from now on, i'll prefer larger or heavier vebicles... i just don't feel safe anymore in anything smaller / lighter... lots of vehicles are more plastic and tin can...

and lots of people talk onehanded on cel phones while driving... the person driving the tracker was one of them (and wasn't paying attention)... that's where my safety & comfort level shrinks to zero when i ride in anything less than my '89 gmc 1/2ton...

i'll be glad when cell phones either get banned when operating vehicles or when hands-free cell phone usage becomes mandatory by law. that may not solve all the cel phone caused acidents, but it'll help certainly reduce them.

I also like the older Caddies & Lincolns... they got both class & luxury & tonnage (& lotsa extra muscle if properly *tuned*)

that's my experiance, and also my opinions...
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Old Feb 19, 2001, 11:08 AM   #29
Zero
Sass hole
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Canada Toronto
Posts: 38,815
Zero once jumped the English ChannelZero once jumped the English ChannelZero once jumped the English ChannelZero once jumped the English ChannelZero once jumped the English ChannelZero once jumped the English ChannelZero once jumped the English ChannelZero once jumped the English ChannelZero once jumped the English ChannelZero once jumped the English ChannelZero once jumped the English Channel


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Wow, your family's prone to accidents ^__^
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please refrain from telling other forum members to "Go eat a buffet of dicks." in the future.

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Old Feb 19, 2001, 01:14 PM   #30
NEVERLIFT
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: United States In the shadows of the Megacorporations
Posts: 3,369
NEVERLIFT is still being judged by the masses


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I like big old hoopties!
They are fun to drive.....
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