Go Back   Rage3D » Rage3D Discussion Area » Graphics Technology Forums » Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies
Rage3D Subscribe FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies Discussion forum for any graphics hardware not provided by AMD/ATI. Also place to discuss 3D technologies such as 3D Stereo, PhysX and other interesting developments/rumours in the 3D industry.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Jan 16, 2013, 11:51 PM   #1
Advertisement (Guests Only)

Login or Register to remove this ad
caveman-jim
Deposed King of Rage3D
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 49,000
caveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badges


Default Rage3D new performance analysis method

Used in the HIS Radeon 7970 review, take a look and let us know what you think.

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33997763
caveman-jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 04:02 AM   #2
KAC
Whatever
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Pakistan Lahore
Posts: 67,138
KAC glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsKAC glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsKAC glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsKAC glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsKAC glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsKAC glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsKAC glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsKAC glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsKAC glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsKAC glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsKAC glows with the radiance of a thousand suns


Default

I still prefer the old min, max and avg methodology. Gives me all I need to know. Frametimes is not something I give a shite about and perceived smoothness etc is something that only matters in the most stressful of games. Adding it in is fine but removing the traditional min, max and avg will not be a good idea imo (I haven't read your complete article).

However, this brings me to another point that I have made at least once in the past. Unless you pit the competitor products against AMD, the reviews will always be not useful to me since that is the only thing I am concerned with when buying a card. Your reviews are good read and have usually some nice insights from a single vendor perspective but they become ultimately meaningless for any sort of card buying decision and remain in the mental masturbation category of my brain never moving into the action category.

Either way, good luck with your reviews and hope some people who have more attention span find it useful.
KAC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 10:51 AM   #3
caveman-jim
Deposed King of Rage3D
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 49,000
caveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badges


Default

Thank you for the feedback and those are valid points.

I am trying to get samples from NVIDIA and their partners, hopefully with the new generation due this year Rage3D can be on the sample lis, especially as we're now being more analytical of the cards more than just plain FPS. Short of buying them myself I don't have access, which I can't currently stretch to. Maybe I should start a 'fund me' campaign? I don't know how that would be received.

Minimum and Maximum FPS are still present, as well as a new perceived average which is more accurate than the simple average that FRAPS pumps out, IMO. Frametimes gives you a glimpse into what's not being told in the minimum and maximum FPS rates, because those are averages which can hide the stutters that people complain about. People differ in their sensitivity to them which is why I've blended lots of results.

As a single card look, it shows the effects of things like frame limiting and vsync as well as resolution, multi-GPU, which are interesting to people.

Last edited by caveman-jim : Jan 17, 2013 at 11:00 AM.
caveman-jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement (Guests Only)
Login or Register to remove this ad
Old Jan 17, 2013, 01:36 PM   #4
Lazy8s
One day at a time
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 38,175
Lazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dialLazy8s is on Chuck Norris' speed-dial


Default

Imo this is the only way cards should have ever been benchmarked.

Min can be deceptive. My Metro 2033 bench always gave me about an 18 fps minimum (oops, meant average), but that was due one single instance where (for whatever reason) framerate would plummet to about 10 fps, then immediately recover to the average 22-28 for the rest of the test. It was enough to skew the results.

Anything over 40 fps looks smooth *to me* so advertising a card that can hit a max of 150 fps really doesn't tell me what I would like to know.

Does the bench/game run smoothly to the human eye in spite of what may look like low minimums?

If yes, go to next res/batch of settings etc and try again.

The min/max and average are good and needed info, but it just doesn't tell the whole story imo.

Just my $.02 fwiw
Lazy8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2013, 04:44 PM   #5
SIrPauly
Did someone say, RGSSAA?
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: United States New England
Posts: 17,164
SIrPauly once held a door open for a complete strangerSIrPauly once held a door open for a complete strangerSIrPauly once held a door open for a complete stranger


Default

Thanks, nice to read reviews that try to be beyond frame-rate!
__________________
Really enjoy 3d gaming flexibility; a gamer's best friend!
SIrPauly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2013, 12:56 AM   #6
Faceless Rebel
Rage3D Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,313
Faceless Rebel can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficultyFaceless Rebel can beat 'Minesweeper' on any difficulty


Default

I think frame time is very important, especially in multi-GPU configurations. In single-GPU configurations it's important too, if you've ever tried to play any game on Intel graphics you know this because if the incredibly inconsistent frame timing on Intel's awful drivers. But it's crucial to a good experience in multi-GPU configurations where microstuttering can make or break the gameplay experience.

Last edited by Faceless Rebel : Jan 18, 2013 at 12:58 AM.
Faceless Rebel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2013, 04:38 AM   #7
icecold1983
Radeon Arctic Islands
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,757
icecold1983 is still being judged by the masses


Default

well done jim, hopefully you get some samples to compare cards to their competition
__________________
"you son of a ***** do u think you can elude us forever carlos"

http://gawker.com/5002269/the-cruise...ed-to-suppress

AHAHAHAH WTF IS HE TALKING ABOUT??????????
icecold1983 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2013, 08:47 AM   #8
acroig
Troll SMod
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Manches Troll Master of Manchesville
Posts: 58,251
acroig glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsacroig glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsacroig glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsacroig glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsacroig glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsacroig glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsacroig glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsacroig glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsacroig glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsacroig glows with the radiance of a thousand sunsacroig glows with the radiance of a thousand suns


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by icecold1983 View Post
well done jim, hopefully you get some samples to compare cards to their competition
Agreed.
acroig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2013, 11:57 AM   #9
NIGELG
Fire of Unknown Origin
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Trinidad and Tobago Trinidad
Posts: 2,428
NIGELG once held a door open for a complete strangerNIGELG once held a door open for a complete strangerNIGELG once held a door open for a complete stranger


Default

NIGELG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2013, 12:16 PM   #10
noko
Radeon Arctic Islands
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: United States Orlando, Florida, USA
Posts: 8,691
noko once held a door open for a complete strangernoko once held a door open for a complete strangernoko once held a door open for a complete strangernoko once held a door open for a complete stranger


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman-jim View Post
Thank you for the feedback and those are valid points.

I am trying to get samples from NVIDIA and their partners, hopefully with the new generation due this year Rage3D can be on the sample lis, especially as we're now being more analytical of the cards more than just plain FPS. Short of buying them myself I don't have access, which I can't currently stretch to. Maybe I should start a 'fund me' campaign? I don't know how that would be received.

Minimum and Maximum FPS are still present, as well as a new perceived average which is more accurate than the simple average that FRAPS pumps out, IMO. Frametimes gives you a glimpse into what's not being told in the minimum and maximum FPS rates, because those are averages which can hide the stutters that people complain about. People differ in their sensitivity to them which is why I've blended lots of results.

As a single card look, it shows the effects of things like frame limiting and vsync as well as resolution, multi-GPU, which are interesting to people.
Might go over well if the tested card becomes a Rage3D member lottery card, or Rage3D member auction card which the money can go back into buying another card etc. The sucky cards that no one wants can be videoed in different ways to be recycled back into nature; from gasoline, fire crackers, garbage disposals to chainsaws, barbacues, bounce test, bridge toss, baseball bat etc. Probably will get a lot more hits once the news gets around Rage3D is about to take some Rage on a card

If all the cards are bought by the community, it would be harder to say the report was jadded by free gifts.

Last edited by noko : Jan 18, 2013 at 12:19 PM.
noko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2013, 03:15 PM   #11
demo
space cadet
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia Melbourne
Posts: 28,162
demo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Dieseldemo exchanges holiday cards with Vin Diesel


Default

Thanks for adding another useful metric to your reviews, R3D and Jimbo. Imo min/avg/max frame rates are still essential, but this is a great addition and helps paint a much clearer picture overall.
__________________
____________________
demo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2013, 08:53 PM   #12
caveman-jim
Deposed King of Rage3D
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 49,000
caveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badgescaveman-jim doesn't need no stinkin' badges


Default

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions guys, appreciated. Are there graphs or data points on there that don't need to be there or aren't as helpful?
caveman-jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rage3D - Hawken Beta Performance Analysis Ichneumon Rage3D Articles and Reviews Comments 12 Jan 18, 2013 08:20 PM
Rage3D - MechWarrior Online Beta Performance Analysis Ichneumon Rage3D Articles and Reviews Comments 4 Jan 17, 2013 12:53 PM
ATI CATALYST 6.8 Performance Analysis Hanners Front Page News 1 Aug 21, 2006 01:03 PM
ATI Catalyst 5.2 performance analysis Hanners Front Page News 0 Feb 13, 2005 01:24 PM
GTA Performance Boost (new method) Milord_Avatar PC Gaming 6 Jun 27, 2002 11:55 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:59 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All trademarks used are properties of their respective owners. Copyright ©1998-2011 Rage3D.com
Links monetized by VigLink