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Old Mar 8, 2004, 09:41 PM   #1
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Zarich
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Default 50.XX drivers for nvidia saw huge performance gains.. when will ati?

Or is ati finished optimizing.. shall we see half life 2 run faster on nvidia hardware with its new drivers? shall we leave doom at a faster running state? Or is ATI working to optimize its drivers to gain some serious speed in upcoming games?



(edited to make it sound less flamey)

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Old Mar 8, 2004, 09:53 PM   #2
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No.. I really want ati to improve its drivers.. otherwise I think ati is going to lose the performance crown for this generation. If that happens I think we are gonna take a bath on the 9800s while ati tries to optimize for their next card. I really don't want to see that happen since I just jumped on the band wagon.
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Old Mar 8, 2004, 09:55 PM   #3
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Yeah optimized drivers determine preformance
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Old Mar 8, 2004, 09:57 PM   #4
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I'd like to see more feature rahter than better performance, but that's just me.
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Old Mar 8, 2004, 10:12 PM   #5
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ATI hasn't had any significant speed increases in it's drivers for a long time, because they're already as fast as they're going to get.

Think about it. Radeons have superior speed, superior IQ, why do you think that is? The architecture is way better. ATI doesn't have to make up for it's crummy design and add "optomizatons" to make it faster, because it already is faster. The cards run the way theyre suppose to run.

Nvidia releases patches to make DX9 faster, because FX architecture is crap. Nvidia's hardware sucks, they try and make up for it, and look where that's gotten them. bad image quality leading to higher 3dmark scores is forever burned into peoples mind when they hear the word "NVIDIA"

"NVIDIA"

**shivers**

Think of it this way, my friend. you have a porche, and you have a chevette. The porche is FAST, because it was BUILT fast. The owner of the chevette constantly rebuilds the engine, adds a little turbo, to try and make it fast. But it will never be as fast as the porche.

ok, so that was a little goofy, but you get the point. mkay?

Last edited by shockwave : Mar 8, 2004 at 10:17 PM.
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Old Mar 8, 2004, 10:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by shockwave203
ATI hasn't had any significant speed increases in it's drivers for a long time, because they're already as fast as they're going to get.

Think about it. Radeons have superior speed, superior IQ, why do you think that is? The architecture is way better. ATI doesn't have to make up for it's crummy design and add "optomizatons" to make it faster, because it already is faster. The cards run the way theyre suppose to run.

Nvidia releases patches to make DX9 faster, because FX architecture is crap. Nvidia's hardware sucks, they try and make up for it, and look where that's gotten them. bad image quality leading to higher 3dmark scores is forever burned into peoples mind when they hear the word "NVIDIA"

"NVIDIA"

**shivers**

Think of it this way, my friend. you have a porche, and you have a chevette. The porche is FAST, because it was BUILT fast. The owner of the chevette constantly rebuilds the engine, adds a little turbo, to try and make it fast. But it will never be as fast as the porche.

ok, so that was a little goofy, but you get the point. mkay?
My negro. You said it in one and took the word right out of my mouth.
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Old Mar 8, 2004, 10:27 PM   #7
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Cool

ATI doesn't need to do much with its drivers to increase performance. Nvidia has been playing catchup for the past two years since the 9700 Pro released. Nvidia has to keep optimizing its drivers to keep up with ATI. Nvidia's drivers used to be the gold standard, but ATI has now caught up with the Catalyst team. Why would ATI want to keep sacrificing IQ for speed like Nvidia? The FX series is crap in DX 9, and Nvidia probably can't wait for the next round.
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Old Mar 8, 2004, 10:32 PM   #8
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ATI has speed right out of the box. Nvidia has a more complex GPU, so they need to hack it up with drivers to slowly obtain more and more speed over the months. ATI Just needs to fix a few bugs here and there.
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 12:52 AM   #9
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Didn´t Catalyst Maker say something about performance increase in the coming Cat 4.3 and 4.4?
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 07:24 AM   #10
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Take what Catalyst Maker said about speed increases with a grain of salt. He's been saying that for the last 3 or 4 driver sets.
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 09:03 AM   #11
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nVidia's drivers have traditionally had performance increases with every release... but thats because their drivers initially suck! nVidia's drivers are like wine; sour.. but in time grow to be very nice.

ATi's drivers on the other hand are like a cold beer... just drink it already, the games look better with SmartShaders anyway
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 10:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by BENCHMARKMAN
Take what Catalyst Maker said about speed increases with a grain of salt. He's been saying that for the last 3 or 4 driver sets.
I think he said 4.2 or 4.3.. and since 4.2 was mainly for R2xx users (speed wise), I would assume 4.3 might have something in store for us R3xx users.
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 03:00 PM   #13
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/me checks the Far Cry results again... then laughs out loud!
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 03:16 PM   #14
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How about optimizing 64-bit memory tranfers for those chipsets with single 64-bit memory controller (improve the cache algorithum?)
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 03:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gamefreak
How about optimizing 64-bit memory tranfers for those chipsets with single 64-bit memory controller (improve the cache algorithum?)
Believe it or not, transfers on the 64-bit bus are very efficient: You are getting great bandwidth utilization. However, that doesn't prevent you from being memory bandwidth limited by the smaller bus...
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 04:31 PM   #16
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A lot of people seem to place too much emphasis on 'frames=performance" sure to some degree that it correct but performance gains in other areas need to be considered. The fact that ATI hardware and drivers do things so efficiently, better or with less overhead should also be viewed as 'performance' increases. Its not simply frames gentlemen.
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 04:40 PM   #17
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Where is the magically disappearing post from CatMaker?


Anyway, for the most part I think performance is fine (at least, in D3D) and my own major bugbear has been dealt with in the latest drivers.... which makes me happy.

Of course, I'd like to see some improvements (especially in OpenGL, where it seems that the drivers don't reach their full potential) but in reality I'd just rather see further stability, bug fixes and maybe ATI working on their bilinear, trilinear and ansio filtering to offer quality over speed.
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 04:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by MuffinMan
Where is the magically disappearing post from CatMaker?


Anyway, for the most part I think performance is fine (at least, in D3D) and my own major bugbear has been dealt with in the latest drivers.... which makes me happy.

Of course, I'd like to see some improvements (especially in OpenGL, where it seems that the drivers don't reach their full potential) but in reality I'd just rather see further stability, bug fixes and maybe ATI working on their bilinear, trilinear and ansio filtering to offer quality over speed.
People like to say "CM said so" very often when they are trying to make arguments. 99% of the time its not true that I said what they claim I said.

The stance from ATI is we deliver performance enhancments when we get them. For example last driver we came out with some R200 class performance boosts. If we were to find more we would release them. It's not like we have them all saved up and can let them out when we chose to. We deliver them as soon as we find them (and of course test them)

Later
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 04:48 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by CATALYST maker
The stance from ATI is we deliver performance enhancments when we get them. For example last driver we came out with some R200 class performance boosts. If we were to find more we would release them. It's not like we have them all saved up and can let them out when we chose to. We deliver them as soon as we find them (and of course test them)
Darn, and there was I planning to break into ATi HQ and steal the 'Big Box O' Speed Boosts' from your office.
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 05:56 PM   #20
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so what you people are saying is.. ati is as good as its going to get.. nvidia is finding a way to get better.
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 06:02 PM   #21
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nVidia NEEDS to find a way to get better, but that will only happen with new hardware. Drivers won't do anything magical, because the FX "cinematic engine" has its PS2.0 part crippled.
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 06:32 PM   #22
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Why dont you try focusing on the ATI question and stop putting in outdated anti-Nvidia propaganda?

I personally would like to see ATI performance REGRESSIONS from the last few drivers stamped out.
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 06:40 PM   #23
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ATI DOES need some optimisations to keep up with nvidia on some games. Never Winter Nights and KOTOR for one. I miss the faster driver updates of my old nvidia card now I have my 8500. There are some games which ATI could do with optimising for...
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 06:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zarich
so what you people are saying is.. ati is as good as its going to get.. nvidia is finding a way to get better.
Educate yourself on how Nvidia is getting its performance, ensure you READ what is there to understand the pictures :

http://www.3dcenter.de/artikel/deton...14/index_e.php

Or the magically disapearing lighting:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...threadid=25595

That was noticed here way back when:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic...uamark-08.html

Nothing is FREE in 3D, and one should look at the total picture before believing some Nvidia PR crap !!!

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Old Mar 9, 2004, 07:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doomtrooper
Educate yourself on how Nvidia is getting its performance, ensure you READ what is there to understand the pictures :

http://www.3dcenter.de/artikel/deton...14/index_e.php

Or the magically disapearing lighting:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/show...threadid=25595

That was noticed here way back when:

http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic...uamark-08.html

Nothing is FREE in 3D, and one should look at the total picture before believing some Nvidia PR crap !!!

Brilliant.

WB to CM Long time no see, good to see you back mingling with the masses.
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 08:21 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by shockwave203
The cards run the way theyre suppose to run.
I can't help but notice, this should be ATI's slogan

"The way its meant to be runned"
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 08:25 PM   #27
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Doomtrooper summed it up pretty well. ATI will get huge performance gains like Nvidia when they start cheating their butts off like Nvidia. And I don't think any of us want that.
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 08:31 PM   #28
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Nvidia may have crap FX series but they sure did these things great:

1.Best video demos,which in fact are extremely CG-like.Havent seen nothing as close from Ati yet.

2.Best nV videocard cards I owned(TnT2,Gf2pro,GF4 4400ti,Xbox graphics--yummyy!!)

3.Best nV motherboard (Asus nForce2 Ultra 400--Rock solid performance--best integrated sound-based on Xbox technology)


Im not an nVidiot,im a netrulist.Company means shyt to me unless I experienced terrible service in the past with a particular compnay.I look for best product.If company A has best product at a certain time than company B,then company A won my money.And vice versa.Its economy!
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Old Mar 9, 2004, 08:40 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by CATALYST maker
People like to say "CM said so" very often when they are trying to make arguments. 99% of the time its not true that I said what they claim I said.

The stance from ATI is we deliver performance enhancments when we get them. For example last driver we came out with some R200 class performance boosts. If we were to find more we would release them. It's not like we have them all saved up and can let them out when we chose to. We deliver them as soon as we find them (and of course test them)

Later
Your own words in the DriverHeaven interview last year:

"Everyone always asks, where is ATI going to go from here and how can they continue to improve? I want to officially announce that in the near future we will do even better. CATALYST will now officially be posted a minimum of 12 times a year! That’s right monthly updates (and note I threw the word ‘minimum’ in there). These updates will always include performance boosts , stability enhancements, and innovative new features. They will be fully unified, for all OS’es and of course will be Microsoft certified." [emphasis added] http://www.driverheaven.net/terrymakedon2/

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Old Mar 9, 2004, 08:42 PM   #30
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Default Nvidia all that and a bag o' chips???

Quote:
Originally posted by qballshalls2002
Nvidia may have crap FX series but they sure did these things great:

1.Best video demos,which in fact are extremely CG-like.Havent seen nothing as close from Ati yet.

2.Best nV videocard cards I owned(TnT2,Gf2pro,GF4 4400ti,Xbox graphics--yummyy!!)

3.Best nV motherboard (Asus nForce2 Ultra 400--Rock solid performance--best integrated sound-based on Xbox technology)


Im not an nVidiot,im a netrulist.Company means shyt to me unless I experienced terrible service in the past with a particular compnay.I look for best product.If company A has best product at a certain time than company B,then company A won my money.And vice versa.Its economy!
(not trying to flame you, just giving my 2cents...and I do agree with you somewhat on your point #1 , so it's not like I "totally" disagree with you ;-) )

1. I agree to a point... Nvidia demos are pretty sweet...

2. Disagree...My GeForce 2 GTS was a good card, but seeing my friends TI4600 made me buy my first ATI Card (9500Pro) [And my 9500Pro made him drop his 4600 like a brick and buy his 9700Pro ] ... XBOX2 ... ATI... All I got to say about that....

3. Disagree... My 3 Nforce2 Boards gave me such a headache that I left the world of AMD and went back to Intel (check sig). Nvidia mobo drivers SUCK. Suck as in, my sound CONSTANTLY had static or made popping noises... Different drivers had different levels of static or popping, but it NEVER went away... (My last Nforce 2 board was a MSI K7N2 Delta-ILSR [Ultra 400 Chipset])...The IDE drivers KILLED one of my HD's (yes, I am serious, and NVidia pulled the drivers (can't remember the driver version anymore) like days after they were released because peeps HD's were melting like chernobol (spelling)....

My 2cents on Nvidia...

EDITED: Spelling and warm fuzzy feelings on intro of post :-)

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