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Old May 27, 2010, 03:37 PM   #1
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REGENERATION
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NVIDIA Removes Hybrid PhysX Blockage

It seems that Nvidia has removed the hybrid PhysX blockage in the recent 257.15 GeForce drivers. However, it is still a mystery for us if it was done intentionally or perheps it is just a bug. "I'm seriously amazed. I've tested it by myself on Windows XP and Windows 7 x64 - it really works out of the box with 257.15. And even more surprising - timebomb issue is gone too. It would be at least one respectable deed by Nvidia, and my mod would be obsolete, which is great for everyone. So we better hope this is permanent." said GenL.

Last edited by Android1 : May 27, 2010 at 05:00 PM.
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Old May 28, 2010, 12:22 PM   #2
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Anandtech have confirmed this is a bug, and the block will be back in place in the next driver release.

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Our inbox quickly lit up this morning when we received notice about this NGOHQ article, discussing how NVIDIA had removed the heterogeneous GPU restriction on PhysX in their latest beta drivers. This struck us as a bit of an odd reversal of positions from NVIDIA, and now that we've had a chance to chat with them we finally know what's going on.

We just got done talking with NVIDIA about the matter and they clarified the issue for us. In what we expect is going to be a disappointment for many of you, the lack of a PhysX restriction on the current 257.15 beta drivers is a bug, not a feature - the restriction should have been in those drivers and it was not. NVIDIA will be reinstating the restriction in the WHQL build of these drivers, and presumably all drivers thereafter.

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Yes, this is a bug in the latest build of PhysX that was packaged with the driver. We'll be fixing this issue ASAP - the WHQL driver launching in early June won't have this issue. -NVIDIA
For those of you heterogeneous GPU users out there looking to use PhysX, there is some good news that can be salvaged from this however: this won't change the fact that the already released beta drivers lack this restriction. With these drivers you can still have heterogeneous GPUs with PhysX without modifying NVIDIA’s drivers, but you’ll be stuck on these drivers for the time being.
Source - AnandTech
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Old May 28, 2010, 02:29 PM   #3
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Something tells me that a lot of people are going to stick with the 257.15 driver.
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Old May 28, 2010, 08:44 PM   #4
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I'm just still amazed at how blatant Nvidia is being about this. Rather than even just try and be discreet about it all, they're practically saying right to our face "**** you, you can't have it".
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Old May 29, 2010, 01:03 AM   #5
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I enjoy it being classified as an "issue".

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Old May 29, 2010, 03:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobek View Post
I'm just still amazed at how blatant Nvidia is being about this. Rather than even just try and be discreet about it all, they're practically saying right to our face "**** you, you can't have it".
Why should they let people have it who haven't paid for it?
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Old May 29, 2010, 04:11 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by bigtabs View Post
Why should they let people have it who haven't paid for it?
You still have to own an nvidia card for it to work, how is that not paying for it?
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Old May 29, 2010, 05:11 AM   #8
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You can enable Physx on that card though, so what's the problem?
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Old May 29, 2010, 05:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtabs View Post
You can enable Physx on that card though, so what's the problem?
Why are you commenting when you have no idea what this thread is about? Read this link that was provided in the first post.

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Old May 29, 2010, 05:41 AM   #10
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Is that the same link as originally posted? I don't think it is. (Did you change it, Android?)

The article I read referred to NGOHQ but wasn't hosted by them. It also didn't read as clearly as that one.

It appeared that the issue was of using an ATI card to do the physics.
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Old May 29, 2010, 06:47 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtabs View Post
Is that the same link as originally posted? I don't think it is. (Did you change it, Android?)

The article I read referred to NGOHQ but wasn't hosted by them. It also didn't read as clearly as that one.

It appeared that the issue was of using an ATI card to do the physics.
No, I did not change the link.
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Old May 29, 2010, 11:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobek View Post
I'm just still amazed at how blatant Nvidia is being about this. Rather than even just try and be discreet about it all, they're practically saying right to our face "**** you, you can't have it".
Um, they DID say that. Outright SAID it a few months back, that they refuse to support Nvidia cards used as a PhysX only card beside a primary GPU of another manufacturer. They cited unwanted support issues that they didn't want to spend time validating it for usage in that manner. A bunch of drivel excuses, but valid sounding enough to get away with it. Support does cost money. The validity of that alone carried the weight of their excuse.
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Old May 29, 2010, 02:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moshpit View Post
Support does cost money. The validity of that alone carried the weight of their excuse.

I would think buying an Nvidia card to run Physx would still constitutute a sale, thusly generating revenue for Nvidia.
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Old May 29, 2010, 02:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traitoR View Post
I would think buying an Nvidia card to run Physx would still constitutute a sale, thusly generating revenue for Nvidia.
Yeah, you and me both would think that, right? Hence, my delegating the excuse given to "drivel" status even in the face of a valid point like support costs. Normally I give great leeway to a company when it's obvious something could cost more in support then it would generate in sales. But I don't see the balance working that way at all on this scenario.

Nvidia would sell more cards since those like me who won't give up their main ATI cards would still end up buying one of their mid range cards for physX, but if I have to use them for main video, then that is BS if no known technical issues would generate heavy support volume and Nvidia won't get ANY of my money.
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Old May 29, 2010, 03:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtabs View Post
It appeared that the issue was of using an ATI card to do the physics.
No, that is not the case. The issue here is when you have a dual GPU system with an AMD ATI Radeon card as your display card, and want to use an NVIDIA Geforce card to GPU accelerate specific PhysX functions.

In a dual GPU homogenous configuration, i.e. NVIDIA primary display card and NVIDIA secondary card, you can dedicate the second card to run GPU Accelerated PhysX (some specific PhysX API calls can be run on a GPU to greatly accelerate the processing time).

NVIDIA's drivers explicitly block this from happening in a heterogenous environment, where you have a non-NVIDIA card as your primary renderer. GenL has developed a fix that removes this block in the NVIDIA drivers and permits GPU accelerated PhysX to be processed on a secondary NVIDIA card. He discovered that in the 257.15 beta drivers, this block was not in place.

NGOHQ, where GenL offers support for this PhysX driver mod, reported this, and speculated that NVIDIA deliberately removed the block. NVIDIA have responded to inquiries from other websites to state that the missing block is a bug, and unintentional - it will be restored in future driver revisions.

Your comment that AMD ATI Radeon users were getting something they hadn't paid for was unfounded, as this circumstance doesn't exist - they would need to own an NVIDIA card to attempt to use the features anyway.
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Old May 29, 2010, 04:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman-jim View Post
Your comment that AMD ATI Radeon users were getting something they hadn't paid for was unfounded, as this circumstance doesn't exist - they would need to own an NVIDIA card to attempt to use the features anyway.
While this is correct for the present, the possibility of a OpenCL wrapper for CUDA/PhysX is theoretically possible. I wouldn't be surprised to see one pop up sooner or later from somebody not threatened into legal submission by Nvidia, eventually.
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Old May 29, 2010, 04:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moshpit View Post
While this is correct for the present, the possibility of a OpenCL wrapper for CUDA/PhysX is theoretically possible. I wouldn't be surprised to see one pop up sooner or later from somebody not threatened into legal submission by Nvidia, eventually.
It'll never happen, no matter how possible.

Reading the language of the NVIDIA BLOG on this, I wonder if future BETA drivers will have heterogeneous PhysX support, as this way they will be able to offer it as a feature to customers who chose to use a different vendor's product as primary display device. This would neatly sidestep any support matrix concerns as Beta drivers by their very nature are unsupported.

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Old May 29, 2010, 07:00 PM   #18
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Not only would the move to not blocking physx in a heterogeneous configuration sell more cards for nvidia, it would also help cement physx as the system of choice for in-game physics, which would encourage developer support, which would encourage card sales...and so on. By not allowing this in a heterogeneous configuration, nvidia is leaving the door open to the possibility of the development of other means of doing the same thing. They've already proven that being stingy with the tech doesn't significantly impact customer loyalty or produce a whole lot of customer switches between brands...disallowing it, especially now, means the tech basically stagnates with the market.

"We wouldn't want to encourage sales now, because that would increase support tickets. We'd rather wait until ATI rolls up into a ball and dies for lack of Physx, that'll be when the big bucks start rolling in..."
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Old May 30, 2010, 06:39 PM   #19
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how does the AGEIA PhysX cards perform against the NVIDIA PhysX supported cards? maybe the AGEIA cards are still viable solutions: http://cgi.ebay.com/128MB-BFG-AGEIA-...item27b1b8f1e2
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Old May 30, 2010, 07:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erek View Post
how does the AGEIA PhysX cards perform against the NVIDIA PhysX supported cards? maybe the AGEIA cards are still viable solutions: http://cgi.ebay.com/128MB-BFG-AGEIA-...item27b1b8f1e2
NVIDIA have continued to develop PhysX and not only optimized the PhysX subroutine but added new ones that can't be run on the original PPU's.
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Old May 31, 2010, 01:32 AM   #21
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Too bad you merged the thread..

Nice try NGO.
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Old May 31, 2010, 04:06 AM   #22
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Too bad you merged the thread..
That explains it...
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Old May 31, 2010, 08:35 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erek View Post
how does the AGEIA PhysX cards perform against the NVIDIA PhysX supported cards? maybe the AGEIA cards are still viable solutions: http://cgi.ebay.com/128MB-BFG-AGEIA-...item27b1b8f1e2
buying an ageia card today is like buying a 3dfx card. youll be stuck in its respective timeframe.
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Old Jun 3, 2010, 11:33 AM   #24
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So is this really working? Do i have to folow the strange setup or i can instal ati -restart-instal nv-restart?
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Old Jun 3, 2010, 11:43 AM   #25
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So is this really working? Do i have to folow the strange setup or i can instal ati -restart-instal nv-restart?
It should be as simple as you think. Install ATI, restart, install Nvidia, restart, check Nvidia properties and PhysX should already be enabled.
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Old Jun 3, 2010, 11:58 AM   #26
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Nicee so no more install ati-don't restart, install nv-dont restart, install crack I will get my 5830 tomorrow or saturday and i will test this drivers with my 9600gso Can't wait
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Old Jun 3, 2010, 01:25 PM   #27
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It's going to be interesting to see if this 'bug' is present in the next beta driver release.
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