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Old Aug 31, 2020, 08:45 AM   #661
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Originally Posted by Munkus View Post
It's a FLYING sim. In real life, if you're flying at 500 feet in a fixed wing aircraft you are violating several FAA laws.

Well, so is killing people but we still play Grand Theft Auto don't we?


Also, a sim is a sim, you should be able to play however you want. That includes disabling crashes and inverting and doing loops with a 737 if you wanted to. Flying low to check out local scenery is one of those options, real life law or not.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 08:58 AM   #662
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I'm just yanking your chains. Yes, it's disappointing to see some areas look like crap up close. I'm more disappointed with the bugs, but hopefully those will get patched.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 09:04 AM   #663
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Originally Posted by OverclockN' View Post
I'm with Exposed on this one. It's not like a racing sim where you're stuck within the confines of a racetrack and the walls impede your progress.

In a flight sim, you should be able to go anywhere...including low level flying. And if the low level parts break up the visual continuity, it's a bit disappointing. But that's all it is, a disappointment. It can still be a fine game.

As an example, when I saw what the world would be generated from and that it would indeed be 3D on the ground from the satellite imagery, my imagination ran wild. I wanted to fly low through the Grand Canyon on my own little tour, maybe fly through middle of the St Louis Arch in a tiny plane, or maybe in between skyscrapers...just because I can. Why not?

When things look THAT bad from down low, it's kind of a distraction from doing things like that. Yes...it's a sim, and you can't do things like that in real life. Well...in real life you can too. Nothing in physics stops you, only the F22 or whatever it is they send up after you would be the consequence.

+1


The main reason I'm disappointed is because the way I used Flight Simulator before was



1. Fly to an area
2. After landing, switch to a vehicle to drive around the area. The ground scenery was detailed enough where this was possible. FSX even had streetlamps on highways.

3. Or, switch to a helicopter and do some low altitude exploration of the area.



Can't do #2 and #3 with FS2020 at the moment. Partially due to none of these vehicles/helicopters present, but even if they were the up close scenery is bad.



It's really disappointing to hear the answer from some to this is essentially "well you're playing this wrong, fly above 500 feet".



I will say the tech is promising though, and perhaps FS2021 (or Xplane 12) will improve on this. I went to my house and although it looked like a melted rock with misaligned low res textures, it still somewhat resembled my house. I can snap a few pics later to show what I'm seeing. It really does look like a low resolution, blockier version of Google Earth at ground level.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 09:57 AM   #664
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You are *not* going to get real world accurate data at ground level, it's not possible without hand placing items. for VFR flight, which is the goal of this game, 1000ft AGL with accurate landmarks is more important. This game mostly accomplishes that, and with a few patches *will* accomplish that.

Someday, they may get the whole earth modeled at that resolution, but to expect it from this? No.

I'm more concerned about missing electronics features than it being a driving simulation.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 09:58 AM   #665
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Looks good from afar, but when you get close:


4k screenshots, Ultra preset, maximum data options










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Old Aug 31, 2020, 10:12 AM   #666
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This is from X-plane from 2018:

https://www.x-plane.com/2018/11/u-s-autogen-updates/

Considering X-plane is considered the more realistic of the commercially available flight simulators and what most pilots prefer, the attention to detail they gave to ground scenery is above and beyond what's expected.

I like the new technology FS2020 brings, but was hoping it improved what Xplane did 2 years ago. Nothing needs to be handcrafted, the autogen/photogammetry needs an update so distortions are minimized and buildings/trees are shaped like building/trees, not chiseled rocks.

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Old Aug 31, 2020, 11:29 AM   #667
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I play at 3440x1440 Ulta settings, max data (1 gig connection). And I have yet to have anything look that bad. What's with the melted buildings and such.. i don't even get that in my home town, i do get missing buildings, but not that melted looking crap (data is constantly streaming streaming at 3MB per second.. not Mb, but MB.)

Is it possible that 4K isn't streaming the imagery fast enough? (Not due to your connection). You should go change the cache to manual and download the maps manually and test it.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 11:37 AM   #668
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Can anyone who says their game doesn't look like that take some screenshots?

I'm genuinely curious.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 11:38 AM   #669
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Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight View Post
I play at 3440x1440 Ulta settings, max data (1 gig connection). And I have yet to have anything look that bad. What's with the melted buildings and such.. i don't even get that in my home town, i do get missing buildings, but not that melted looking crap (data is constantly streaming streaming at 3MB per second.. not Mb, but MB.)

Is it possible that 4K isn't streaming the imagery fast enough? (Not due to your connection). You should go change the cache to manual and download the maps manually and test it.

This is in Orlando. If you can, can you do a quick test? Take off from Orlando International Airport and fly west to any nearby suburb. Let me know if see any houses that look like that or if they look much better. Host a screenshot on imgur if you can as well. I know that's asking for much, but I really want to know if it's just me or the same for everyone.


I'll try the manual cache suggestion later after work as well.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 11:44 AM   #670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
This is in Orlando. If you can, can you do a quick test? Take off from Orlando International Airport and fly west to any nearby suburb. Let me know if see any houses that look like that or if they look much better. Host a screenshot on imgur if you can as well. I know that's asking for much, but I really want to know if it's just me or the same for everyone.


I'll try the manual cache suggestion later after work as well.
Just be aware if you use manual cache, it can take a long time to cache depending on how many gigs you dedicate to it. For example; I tried at 50gigs and it took about 25 minutes to cache before I was able to resume, and this is on an NVME SSD drive too.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 11:56 AM   #671
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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
This is in Orlando. If you can, can you do a quick test? Take off from Orlando International Airport and fly west to any nearby suburb. Let me know if see any houses that look like that or if they look much better. Host a screenshot on imgur if you can as well. I know that's asking for much, but I really want to know if it's just me or the same for everyone.


I'll try the manual cache suggestion later after work as well.
I will try to remember to do that for you this evening after work.

One thing I noticed is I am running with 32GB of ram which shows north of 20GB is being used when in MSFS. 32GB is also Microsoft's ideal amount of ram (minimum is 8, recommended is 16, ideal is 32). Possible that has something to do with it also, if your system specs is accurate showing you have 16GB. Specially running at 4K.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 12:01 PM   #672
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Originally Posted by xCLAVEx View Post
Just be aware if you use manual cache, it can take a long time to cache depending on how many gigs you dedicate to it. For example; I tried at 50gigs and it took about 25 minutes to cache before I was able to resume, and this is on an NVME SSD drive too.
Ssd/NVME m.2 ssd, even most modern platter Sata drives are faster than 1gig internet connections.. So the 25min is all due to bandwidth of your connection or Microsoft's server's connection or set bandwidth limits per user.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 12:57 PM   #673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight View Post
Ssd/NVME m.2 ssd, even most modern platter Sata drives are faster than 1gig internet connections.. So the 25min is all due to bandwidth of your connection or Microsoft's server's connection or set bandwidth limits per user.
I should have been more clear, I'm talking about just to create a local rolling cache file which isn't internet based. I'm sure the pre-load one that you are referring to is even slower.

Also, it doesn't take me 25 minutes to download 50 gigs, only takes like 10 minutes so something else is going on (likely on MS side). Probably the same crap that took me 9 hours to download the 90 gig install when I could download a 120GB steam game in around an hour.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 01:29 PM   #674
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and probably the same reason why after downloading manual cache of terrain at high resolution, the size of the region reports few kilobytes and the download itself takes less than a minute.

also, the game runs virtually hiccup free for me after disabling ALL caches of sort
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 02:02 PM   #675
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and probably the same reason why after downloading manual cache of terrain at high resolution, the size of the region reports few kilobytes and the download itself takes less than a minute.

also, the game runs virtually hiccup free for me after disabling ALL caches of sort
It appears that the automatic cache uses your OS drive, not the drive you have the game installed on. I decided to set mine to 32GB, which after doing so, it wasn't my installation drive that was effected.. go figure.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 02:53 PM   #676
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I've flown around rural New Hampshire (in drone camera) where the satellite imagery sucks and never seen anything remotely as bad as those screenshots. There's definitely something up with your game.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 03:26 PM   #677
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I'm with Exposed on this one. It's not like a racing sim where you're stuck within the confines of a racetrack and the walls impede your progress.

In a flight sim, you should be able to go anywhere...including low level flying. And if the low level parts break up the visual continuity, it's a bit disappointing. But that's all it is, a disappointment. It can still be a fine game.

As an example, when I saw what the world would be generated from and that it would indeed be 3D on the ground from the satellite imagery, my imagination ran wild. I wanted to fly low through the Grand Canyon on my own little tour, maybe fly through middle of the St Louis Arch in a tiny plane, or maybe in between skyscrapers...just because I can. Why not?

When things look THAT bad from down low, it's kind of a distraction from doing things like that. Yes...it's a sim, and you can't do things like that in real life. Well...in real life you can too. Nothing in physics stops you, only the F22 or whatever it is they send up after you would be the consequence.
It's impossible to handle it that well in dense suburban areas. There are a few glitches in the AI that probably will improve over time. But, it already is amazing. I decided to land on a remote area in Africa and the buildings there were rendered pretty decent. Plus, it had trees and blades of grass even. So it's probably just dense areas that is harder to figure out from satellite imagery. Hopefully, the algorithms will get tweaked and get better and better over time. But, I'd never expect it to ever achieve driving sim level of details.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 04:05 PM   #678
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I've flown around rural New Hampshire (in drone camera) where the satellite imagery sucks and never seen anything remotely as bad as those screenshots. There's definitely something up with your game.

Can you give a long/lat example of where you been and how it looks? I want to compare that area to my setup and see if it looks the same or different.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 04:09 PM   #679
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Give me coordinates of your screenies Exposed and I'll post some screenshots after work.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 06:45 PM   #680
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Okay, I can tell you what the problem is, and I will post a video rather than a screen shot as soon as Youtube finishes processing it (may be later tonight). You will notice that at the beginning, everything looks great, and I am streaming satellite Imagery at between 2MB to 3MB per second. Then you will notice everything goes to poop just like the screen shots you show above. I look at what my internet is doing, and it is NOT streaming ANYTHING.. That tells me that they have not completed or made any graphic imagery from satellites for that area or there is a problem in getting that data. When I fly back into another area where everything looks better, my download increases back to where it should be streaming the data, and the second I fly back into any area that looks like crap.. nothing.. no data streaming live imagery at all (internet download drops to 7.9Kb per second).

What it boils down to is the areas that look like crap either haven't been rendered or created yet, or there is an issue with getting that data off the cloud from Microsoft.

edit: It will be a bit, as all youtube has processes only 360p low quality.. but I have to go give me son a driving lesson first, so it should have the full 1440p done when I get back.

edit #2:
Here's the video (no sound) .. no making fun of my flying, as I was doing it quickly before I had to leave and flying way to fast.. of course, I'm not that great when I am not in a hurry. (I crashed the first try when I went to fiddle with the camera view/screenshot tab that I didn't close) It is a little dark because I have real time and weather enabled. Should have done it with that turned off. sorry. It's recorded at 1440p, but watching it in 4k makes it look even better. (except where it turns to crap )

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Old Aug 31, 2020, 08:16 PM   #681
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Give me coordinates of your screenies Exposed and I'll post some screenshots after work.

Try this subdivision coordinates



28.396509, -81.361711
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 08:18 PM   #682
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Originally Posted by NWR_Midnight View Post
Okay, I can tell you what the problem is, and I will included a video rather than a screen shot as soon as Youtube finishes processing it (may be later tonight). You will notice that at the beginning, everything looks great, and I am streaming satellite Imagery at between 2MB to 3MB per second. Then you will notice everything go to poop just like the screen shots you show above. I look at what my internet is doing, and it is NOT streaming ANYTHING.. That tells me that they have not completed or made any graphic imagery from satellites for that area or there is a problem in getting that data. When I fly back into another area where everything looks better, my download increases back to where it should be streaming the data, and the second I fly back into any area that looks like crap.. nothing.. no data streaming live imagery at all (internet download drops to 7.9Kb per second).

What it boils down to is the areas that look like crap either haven't been rendered or created yet, or there is an issue with getting that data off the cloud from Microsoft.

edit: I will be a bit, as all youtube has processes only 360p low quality.. but I have to go give me son a driving lesson first, so it should have the full 1440p done when I get back.



Hmm.. well that's interesting. I noticed the same for many areas in San Francisco as well. Thanks for that video I look forward to it. I wonder if the data just isn't there to download or if their servers are just being hammered. Seems to be most of Orlando though.


I'm also setting a manual cache for this area (coordinates above post) and see if that makes a difference.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 09:16 PM   #683
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What I saw above looked like what Exposed posted. What am I missing here?

It looked fine starting out, but those subdivision 1min in were really, really bad. The houses looked like melted piles of goo.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 09:39 PM   #684
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Originally Posted by OverclockN' View Post
What I saw above looked like what Exposed posted. What am I missing here?

It looked fine starting out, but those subdivision 1min in were really, really bad. The houses looked like melted piles of goo.
I did what exposed asked, went and tested/verified to see if I got the same results in the same location. See my other comment above (now with the video), I explain what I believe is happening. So yeah, you missed something. But I have since deleted my last post and edited my other one to include the video, which is what I was originally going to do in the first place. Should help clarify it.
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Old Aug 31, 2020, 10:59 PM   #685
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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
Hmm.. well that's interesting. I noticed the same for many areas in San Francisco as well. Thanks for that video I look forward to it. I wonder if the data just isn't there to download or if their servers are just being hammered. Seems to be most of Orlando though.


I'm also setting a manual cache for this area (coordinates above post) and see if that makes a difference.
It seems that only 321 cities are photo realistic:

https://www.fanbyte.com/guides/a-com...imulator-2020/

Hmmm...
San Francisco and Orlando are both on the list, yet there is missing imagery.
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Old Sep 1, 2020, 08:43 AM   #686
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OK thanks for the video!

I started with a small 10GB manual cache just for the areas around Orlando international airport. I noticed more instances of "high resolution" houses but these were in sporadic patches. In fact you could call them "islands" of good models surrounded by models of "goo". You can see the sudden change in model quality in your video as well.

I increased the cache to 20GB which should be more than enough for this area and there were still more areas of "goo buildings" than areas of quality models. I'm annoyed by this because all of the major landmarks in Orlando are in "goo areas" while the "quality" patches appear to be random areas.

This is definitely a problem with missing photogrammetry data, or bad data.

I wish there was some way to send your video to MS so they're aware of this problem and get it fixed.
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Old Sep 1, 2020, 09:20 AM   #687
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I was able to find a few areas with high resolution buildings.





Unfortunately for me at least these high res areas are few and far in between, and downtown Orlando just doesn't have this level of detail (still looks like my downtown screenshot prior even after a manual cache).

I don't know if these are intended to be photorealistic models of the actual buildings, or if they're just standard models put in place. If these are generic models I would actually prefer to have these than suburbs of distorted houses/trees.
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Old Sep 1, 2020, 10:29 AM   #688
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Since these "maps" are clearly at least a few years out of date in many places, what exactly is it streaming to us? It's not live satellite imagery as an area near my dads place that I explored has a new gas station, but that station has been there for over a year now. It is still showing it as an empty field, so that is at LEAST 2-3 years out of date.
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Old Sep 1, 2020, 11:35 AM   #689
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Since these "maps" are clearly at least a few years out of date in many places, what exactly is it streaming to us? It's not live satellite imagery as an area near my dads place that I explored has a new gas station, but that station has been there for over a year now. It is still showing it as an empty field, so that is at LEAST 2-3 years out of date.
Same as my gripe above. Some of the maps are at least 8 years old. Definitely not linked to Bing Maps directly. Probably provided a data dump to the developers during the early phases of development and never updated it.
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Old Sep 1, 2020, 12:07 PM   #690
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Probably provided a data dump to the developers during the early phases of development and never updated it.
That's gonna be in a service or DLC.

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