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Old Jan 27, 2021, 08:09 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Nunz View Post
HBM is just another money sink that has nose-dived AMD before. They don't need it. GDDR6 puts out very good bandwidth, especially if they use Samsung memory chips instead of Hynix/Micron. If they had used a 384-bit bus, or maybe a 352-bit bus, we wouldn't be talking about HBM. Look at GDDR6X and the bandwidth it's putting out; I don't care for HBM at all.

HBM seemed genius when GDDR4 AND GDDR5 were slow as piss, but GDDR6 and 6X dramatically increased memory throughput and I think it shows that the memory bandwidth is not the limiting factor right now. Combine the raster performance of the 6900XT with a good sized bus instead of the gimped garbage AMD put on the card and it likely changes much of what we see in 4K performance.
HBM2 is cheaper at this point then gddr6x. Rumors are starting to make the rounds that NV cards are getting another price bump because of gddr6x production woes. At this point the HBM2 is too expensive rhetoric is out of date, especially with HBM2e being a thing. The real question is can production of HBM keep up with demand?

I don't disagree about the bus width being the downside of the current 6x00 cards.
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Old Jan 27, 2021, 11:46 PM   #92
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I don't typically chime in on "rumor" threads like this because my friend works on the CPU side.. but..

There is a reason RDNA2's IMC supports HBM2. Its the same IMC used in their CDNA arch. Don't count HBM2 out just yet.
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Old Jan 28, 2021, 11:07 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
fact of life the top high end cards sell the midrange cards

if AMD can't come out with a winning high end card to beat NV their midrange won't sell well


flat out they need to beat the 3090 and smoke the 3080 soon or what ever NV's top cards are at the time
to get market buzz and sell the midrange money makers


take last time as AMD doesn't have 6000 midrange out yet

most people didn't say to themselves hay NV has the best fastest card in the 2080 ti but i can't afford that 1200 bucks monster so i'll buy a midrange RX 5700 that is slower than NV's last top card the 1080 ti
no they went for the 2060/70/80 that they could afford and why AMD lost a crap ton of market share

the masses may not buy the wining top card but the tend to buy the winning brand name of that top card .

and AMD needs to get there soon
Another way of putting this is the masses barely know what they are doing and just buy whatever company name they recognize.
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Old Jan 28, 2021, 11:15 AM   #94
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AMD should highlight its main brand name over that of Radeon at this point. People know AMD for cpus they wont hesitate as much over a gpu if they see that main brand on the box.

But honestly 2 main gpu makers doesnt cut it. If we want out of the perenial crazy banana pants prices we'll need intel and some chinese maker Ive read about at some point in there.
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Old Jan 28, 2021, 12:14 PM   #95
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AMD should highlight its main brand name over that of Radeon at this point. People know AMD for cpus they wont hesitate as much over a gpu if they see that main brand on the box.

But honestly 2 main gpu makers doesnt cut it. If we want out of the perenial crazy banana pants prices we'll need intel and some chinese maker Ive read about at some point in there.
we don't need anything from china .

the prices are more the fabs at this point i think we need lots more fabs and most in north America
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Old Jan 28, 2021, 03:26 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
fact of life the top high end cards sell the midrange cards

if AMD can't come out with a winning high end card to beat NV their midrange won't sell well

flat out they need to beat the 3090 and smoke the 3080 soon or what ever NV's top cards are at the time
to get market buzz and sell the midrange money makers

take last time as AMD doesn't have 6000 midrange out yet

most people didn't say to themselves hay NV has the best fastest card in the 2080 ti but i can't afford that 1200 bucks monster so i'll buy a midrange RX 5700 that is slower than NV's last top card the 1080 ti
no they went for the 2060/70/80 that they could afford and why AMD lost a crap ton of market share

the masses may not buy the wining top card but the tend to buy the winning brand name of that top card .

and AMD needs to get there soon
TBH I'm not convinced with that argument that having a halo 4k card sells more mid-range their is far more to it than that. I agree (and you've mentioned numerous times ) my last three GPU's were mid-range AMD cards in the scheme of things. During that time Nvidia always had the halo card but that never bothered me. There were a couple of things that made me stick with AMD.

Firstly I had a freesync monitor so I was in the AMD ecosystem. Plus at the time Nvidia didn't support it. Secondly I looked at price/performance ratio and AMD's cards always seemed better in that respect. We're all individuals so lumping us all together as a homogeneous mass, as Nagorak mentions you're making the assumption we don't know what we're doing which is a bit disingenuous and sounds like you're looking down on people who buy mid-range cards as stupid.

Two other things you ignore are if you already own an Nvidia card it's simply a plug and play upgrade whereas buying a new AMD card means getting used to newer things and driver settings. This is quite off putting for a lot of people who are not used to it.

TBH I'm still finding my way around the Nvidia driver panel, it's a lot different to AMD's Adrenalin software. You shouldn't underestimate that as its a steep learning curve. I'm replicating the optimal settings in Geforce Experience because I haven't used an Nvidia card for a decade so any help I can get is welcome.

The other thing you're ignoring is AMD's (justified or not) reputation for drivers. Whether it's true or not people just believe it and use it as a reason not to buy an AMD card. I've had my issues to be sure and I agree that Nvidia have their own issues but the myth that AMD drivers are bad has become a fact people believe without questioning.

There's a lot of things AMD need to do and just releasing a halo card is not going to fix them.
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Old Jan 28, 2021, 04:07 PM   #97
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TBH I'm not convinced with that argument that having a halo 4k card sells more mid-range their is far more to it than that. I agree (and you've mentioned numerous times ) my last three GPU's were mid-range AMD cards in the scheme of things. During that time Nvidia always had the halo card but that never bothered me. There were a couple of things that made me stick with AMD.

Firstly I had a freesync monitor so I was in the AMD ecosystem. Plus at the time Nvidia didn't support it. Secondly I looked at price/performance ratio and AMD's cards always seemed better in that respect. We're all individuals so lumping us all together as a homogeneous mass, as Nagorak mentions you're making the assumption we don't know what we're doing which is a bit disingenuous and sounds like you're looking down on people who buy mid-range cards as stupid.

Two other things you ignore are if you already own an Nvidia card it's simply a plug and play upgrade whereas buying a new AMD card means getting used to newer things and driver settings. This is quite off putting for a lot of people who are not used to it.

TBH I'm still finding my way around the Nvidia driver panel, it's a lot different to AMD's Adrenalin software. You shouldn't underestimate that as its a steep learning curve. I'm replicating the optimal settings in Geforce Experience because I haven't used an Nvidia card for a decade so any help I can get is welcome.

The other thing you're ignoring is AMD's (justified or not) reputation for drivers. Whether it's true or not people just believe it and use it as a reason not to buy an AMD card. I've had my issues to be sure and I agree that Nvidia have their own issues but the myth that AMD drivers are bad has become a fact people believe without questioning.

There's a lot of things AMD need to do and just releasing a halo card is not going to fix them.
it is the same as CPU's it took 3 years of top CPU's to get people to start dropping intel
and it will be the same with GPU's
the 6800 xt is a good start but they need more now with RT

I would take either a 3080 Strix or a 6800 xt Strix at this point as i don't really care about RT it just not ready for prime time even after 2+ years
and without RT they are about the same at 4k but the 6800 xt uses less watts
but they will both only be about 25% to 30% at 4k over what i have

but RT is all the buzz even if it will take 4 years to be ready for prime time so AMD needs it




i wish NVidia control panel was like Adrenalin software and that POS Geforce Experience was gone

the hole lot of that ATI/AMD bad driver thing started with Nvidia Focus Group pushing it around the net
some of it was deserved at times but mostly it was NV had better SLI drivers in more games than Crossfire up till the 290x
single card is about the same and always has been they both have problems now and then with some games
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Old Jan 28, 2021, 06:57 PM   #98
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I remember the ugly CP on my 1060. Do not miss it. Nor the Linux hell I went through.
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Old Jan 28, 2021, 07:08 PM   #99
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I remember the ugly CP on my 1060. Do not miss it. Nor the Linux hell I went through.
it's the same one it has not changed since windows 3.0
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 12:56 PM   #100
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Infinity cache with AI acceleration?

This confirms they are going all in on memory on chip, but the patent indicates they don't just want memory to function as superfast cache - they want memory modules to also accelerate AI.

CDNA 2? RDNA 3?
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 12:59 PM   #101
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I remember the ugly CP on my 1060. Do not miss it. Nor the Linux hell I went through.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
it's the same one it has not changed since windows 3.0
FPS with RTX/DLSS > Cute CP.
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 01:25 PM   #102
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Im not interested in turning a pretty good Radeon architecture thread this into another Nv marketing circus show.
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 01:27 PM   #103
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Im not interested in turning a pretty good Radeon architecture thread this into another Nv marketing circus show.
This is a forum, you make a statement, someone refutes it. That's how it works, verstehen?
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 01:29 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acroig View Post
This is a forum, you make a statement, someone refutes it. That's how it works, verstehen?
That is an interesting way to refute a statement about a CP being ugly. You should not be cognitively bothered by it.

EDIT: you get a moderator to ban me from speaking German to another German and you proceed to condescend me with German. I know you don't like me, but trust me, I'm not going to affect Nvidia's sales too much
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 01:31 PM   #105
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That is an interesting way to refute a statement about a CP being ugly. You should not be cognitively bothered by it.
The fact that I disagree with you and explained the reasoning behind it is not nV marketing circus, it's an opinion.

Have the last word on this.
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 01:41 PM   #106
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FPS with RTX/DLSS > Cute CP.
preparation DLSS sucks KAC's hairy ass
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 01:42 PM   #107
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preparation DLSS sucks KAC's hairy ass
Maybe.... but the FPS are still up there.

Stop arguing or I'll ask Exposed to chime in about DLSS.
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 01:54 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by acroig View Post
The fact that I disagree with you and explained the reasoning behind it is not nV marketing circus, it's an opinion.

Have the last word on this.
But it's not a disagreement about the CP being ugly because you would have said otherwise. It's cleverly ambiguous in that regard. Did you mean, ''you are right, the CP is ugly, but we have Ray tracing and DLSS'' or did you mean ''no, you are wrong, the control panel is pretty because we have Ray tracing and DLSS.''? either way, it makes no sense.

I think you know what you are doing.
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 02:04 PM   #109
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Maybe.... but the FPS are still up there.

Stop arguing or I'll ask Exposed to chime in about DLSS.
i like RT for the most part when it in not turning clear glass into a funhouse mirror like is 2077


but if i have to turn on more preparation DLSS than quality at 4k i will turn RT off also and run without both .

and i get better FPS in 2077 at 4k without RT & preparation DLSS quality than with both on
and i have been playing 2077 with both off

and performance & balanced are just bad .
if i wanted to play at 1080p i wouldn't have paid 2000+ bucks for this 4K OLED 55" LG CX

hell lets go back to a CGA CRT to get FPS for RT

what i really need a new card for is HDMI 2.1

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Old Jan 29, 2021, 02:31 PM   #110
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i like RT for the most part when it in not turning clear glass into a funhouse mirror like is 2077


but if i have to turn on more preparation DLSS than quality at 4k i will turn RT off also and run without both .
Not to beat a dead horse but DLSS is quite good on Cyberpunk.
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 02:44 PM   #111
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Not to beat a dead horse but DLSS is quite good on Cyberpunk.
quality is ok at 4k but is not much of a FPS boost over DLSS off

and being 36 inches away from a 4K OLED 55" LG CX i don't like performance & balanced .
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 03:16 PM   #112
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preparation DLSS sucks KAC's hairy ass
All the games I play with Ray tracing don't offer DLSS. Only Ultra RT. OK not 4K but 1440p but if it comes with the card why not use it? TBH 1440p native with Ultra RT looks pretty good to me.

Do you really think AMD's version of DLSS is going to be any better? I think the jury might be out on that one. Let's see I guess.
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 03:46 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by LordHawkwind View Post
All the games I play with Ray tracing don't offer DLSS. Only Ultra RT. OK not 4K but 1440p but if it comes with the card why not use it? TBH 1440p native with Ultra RT looks pretty good to me.

Do you really think AMD's version of DLSS is going to be any better? I think the jury might be out on that one. Let's see I guess.
no and i won't use AMD's either if it's not

and 1440p is less than the 30 inch 2560x1600 i started using in 2007
i can deal with

in 4 years 2 to 3 generation RT will be great when GPU's can do it without preparation DLSS

till then it is great to look at for a bit then turn off and play the game if it is like 2077 and even that you can play at 30 to 35 FPS RT on and with G-sync or 35 to 40 FPS without RT
DLSS quality splits the difference
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 04:23 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by bill dennison View Post
quality is ok at 4k but is not much of a FPS boost over DLSS off

and being 36 inches away from a 4K OLED 55" LG CX i don't like performance & balanced .
Wow you sit three feet away form a 55" screen wow. I sit a few feet away from my 27" monitor and it seems big

I have a 2018 LG 4K 50" HDR TV in the living room and sit maybe 8 to 10 feet away and it's difficult to tell the difference when watching 4K output. Now HDR I can tell the difference straight away very nice indeed. The Xbone X looks good with HDR content but again I'm up to 10 feet away.

Good for Sports sims and racing but need my 1440p monitor for first person shooters and keyboard.
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 04:49 PM   #115
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preparation DLSS sucks KAC's hairy ass
Billy and his non sense posts. I see no issues while using DLSS. No reason to be so upset about it Billy!
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 05:37 PM   #116
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Billy and his non sense posts. I see no issues while using DLSS. No reason to be so upset about it Billy!
i don't like it sorry if that offends you but i don't really give a Sh*t

and i wasn't the one that brought NV DLSS into a RDNA 3 Rumor Discussion thread







..............

Quote:
Could AMD build its next RDNA graphics card out of chiplets?
https://www.pcgamer.com/amd-mcm-gpu-...s-card-rdna-3/


.........
Quote:
AMD Files Patent for Chiplet Machine Learning Accelerator to be Paired With GPU, Cache Chiplets
Quote:
This could give AMD a modular way to add machine-learning capabilities to several of their designs through the inclusion of such a chiplet, and might be AMD's way of achieving hardware acceleration of a DLSS-like feature.
https://www.techpowerup.com/277856/a...e-chiplets?amp

and if it is not better than DLSS 2 Q i won't use it either

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Old Jan 29, 2021, 05:51 PM   #117
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i don't like it sorry if that offends you but i don't really give a Sh*t

and i wasn't the one that brought NV DLSS into....
My bad, let's move on, the CP argument seemed silly so I brought up other points.
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 06:22 PM   #118
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Maybe.... but the FPS are still up there.

Stop arguing or I'll ask Exposed to chime in about DLSS.
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 06:29 PM   #119
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, I'll do the same.
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Old Jan 29, 2021, 06:31 PM   #120
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My bad, let's move on, the CP argument seemed silly so I brought up other points.

You knew what you were doing and what was going to happen You were not that insecure about ugly CP comments.

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Im not interested in turning a pretty good Radeon architecture thread this into another Nv marketing circus show.
Back to RDNA3
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