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Old Feb 26, 2021, 08:53 AM   #1
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badsykes
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Default Just bought the Benq Sw240

Hi All

I just replaced the Eizo FS2434 with Benq Sw240.This is a photography moitor.First impressions:
- Awesome image quality and colors.I can feel a very consistent difference versus my old monitor.
- The trailing in videos is more than my previous monitor.Is kinda breaking the immersion and i can say is a bit annoying.
- in a very fast pace game the trailing (half life 2 deathmatch) is much more acceptable than in videos / movies
- The stand is not so sturdy as for the Eizo.
- There is a dedicated Black and White mode in monitor and i can play everything i want in this mode for a different experience.
- resolution is 1900x1200 is nice and feels larger than my previous monitor.


Damn this monitor is very nice ...
I have 30 days if i want to returin. I want to still see if i can swallow the symptoms of high latency in movies and videos.
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Old Feb 26, 2021, 04:41 PM   #2
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Update:
I installed and played some Doom Eternal campaign... For me personally is more than acceptable.In graphics settings everything was on Ultra Nightmare.
I also played Doom Eternal in full black and white mode.It was intersting and a new experience.
The difference between Adobe RGB space and sRGB is BIG.Running everything with Adobe RGB color space is life-like colors.sRGB is pale and feels ... fake.I looked at my usual music videoclips on youtube with Adobe RGB and feel something fresh.
The monitor switched was recognized as 10bit automatically.
Using DCI-P3 color space had some weird brightness.The factory settings are weird to me.I have to dig a little bit and see how this color space is configured.
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Old Feb 26, 2021, 07:00 PM   #3
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Careful there. It's my understanding that sRGB content looks off when viewed in AdobeRGB.

Also no point being in AdobeRGB colour space unless your in Adobe CC and working in the colour space. I don't think any game or web content is generally in that colour space.
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Old Feb 27, 2021, 12:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunks0 View Post
Careful there. It's my understanding that sRGB content looks off when viewed in AdobeRGB.

Also no point being in AdobeRGB colour space unless your in Adobe CC and working in the colour space. I don't think any game or web content is generally in that colour space.

There is a color profile installed with the drivers.I always install monitor drivers and color profiles.With this monitor is very important.Windows use the color profile in everything.I can assure you that switching color spaces back and forth between Adobe RGB and sRGB shows BIG difference.
I will do the same test with Doom Eternal and report back.
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Old Feb 27, 2021, 01:03 AM   #5
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That's not correct. If content is encoded in 8-bit sRGB, as almost everything is, you do not gain anything by viewing it in another colour space or at a different bit depth. That's unavoidable and when you do your messing with how those colours are supposed to look. Although, you might like how it looks

Do a little googling on sRGB vs AdobeRGB and you'll get it
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Old Feb 27, 2021, 01:16 AM   #6
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If you want another proof here you have it.Look at the comments.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4455144

You like it or not.. I like it more than bare pale sRGB

Anyway i tested doom eternal and the sRGB is a little more pale versus Adobe RGB.There is a difference but is subtle but is visible i can assure you that.Actually is the same effect like the guys talk in the forum above.
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Old Feb 27, 2021, 01:32 AM   #7
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Going to guess that Adobe RGB is oversaturated, making sRGB look pale in comparison. But that doesn't mean the former mode is more accurate.
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Old Feb 27, 2021, 01:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12Bass View Post
Going to guess that Adobe RGB is oversaturated, making sRGB look pale in comparison. But that doesn't mean the former mode is more accurate.
It seems so

I could reduce much of the paleness of sRGB space in Doom Eternal by equalizing the brightnesses for both profiles.Now the paleness is still there but is insignificant.

Later Edit:
I now understood something about refresh rates.I saw that the most expensive gaming monitors have high input latency nowadays if you run them at 60hz refresh rate according to https://www.prad.de/

The Benq Sw240 actually has a lower input latency than most gaming monitors BUT can't do 144hz or above.Those fancy gaming monitors have lower latency only when run at advertised refresh rate.My old EIZO it was a dedicated 60hz gaming platform and has 0.6 ms latency at 60hz beating the majority of the market today ironically.
Also i tested youtube videos made at 24 fps and 25fps versus 60fps.I asked myself why the videos/movies experience is much different than the gaming one.The answer is that games run at 60fps.The 60fps youtube videos are a much much different experience than the 24 and 25fps ones.Imo if this monitor had a high refresh rate at least 120hz or 144hz would have been a gaming powerhouse.The high refresh rate would actualy do something with the input lag like it does in the top gaming monitors...
I was worried about dead pixels because well is Benq and not Eizo and it has none.It has calibration certificate for uniformity.The light bleeding is much lower than my old Eizo.There was more care put in the QC.Benq is a more mainstream company than Eizo.
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Old Feb 27, 2021, 01:10 PM   #9
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Playing 24p content on a 60hz results in judder... I didn't know this.Is anyway to correct this in youtube ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuEZIJDEQyo


Seems it happens with high refresh monitors too ...



https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/co...stutterjudder/

This is becoming so funny.With the Eizo and also 60hz i didn't have to search for this challenge.What the heck ...

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Old Feb 27, 2021, 01:27 PM   #10
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24 frames doesn't have judder at 144hz/240hz, 60 hz does because 24 doesn't fit into 60.

You get a 3/2 pulldown effect.

144hz/240hz have smooth motion, while 50/60hz don't.
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Old Feb 27, 2021, 01:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirBaron View Post
24 frames doesn't have judder at 144hz/240hz, 60 hz does because 24 doesn't fit into 60.

You get a 3/2 pulldown effect.

144hz/240hz have smooth motion, while 50/60hz don't.
My Eizo FS2434 with 60hz didn't exhibit this problem.With the benq is the first time i had to search for this.

I found some other explanation:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57657591

Quote:
The majority of inbuilt laptop screens are fixed at 60Hz, the processor driving them has to resort to 3:2 pulldown to make the maths work, 24 into 60 doesn't go. The result will be judder.
External monitors that have a maximum refresh rate of 60Hz, are usually flexible, and can run at lower refresh rates - controlled by the computer's graphic processor. I suspect your 60Hz monitor is running at 48Hz when being fed a 24fps signal.
The point is not all 60Hz monitors (or greater rates) are flexible enough to run at all lower rates, usually they can handle 50Hz to display the European standard of 25fps broadcast - used for many many decades. 24fps although having been widely used in the film industry wasn't a 'household' standard until relatively recently - in the past few years many more monitors are able to reduce their refresh down to 48Hz - but not all, especially in the 4k realm.
Out of interest, what is the make/model of your monitor?
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Old Feb 27, 2021, 01:41 PM   #12
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that's not another explanation, that's exactly what I told you.

120hz, 240hz monitors don't have this problem either.

Also unless your old monitor changed refresh rate somehow, it would also have the problem. Probably didn't realize it because of the vaseline motion blur.
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Old Feb 27, 2021, 01:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirBaron View Post
that's not another explanation, that's exactly what I told you.

120hz, 240hz monitors don't have this problem either.

Also unless your old monitor changed refresh rate somehow, it would also have the problem. Probably didn't realize it because of the vaseline motion blur.
I feel it did changed the refresh rates ....

I tested the theory by creating a custom resolution in Amd radeon software 1900x1200 with 48hz refresh rate and the youtube 24p content is working fine now.
Also with this 48hz refresh rate it switched from 10bit to 8bit.

Update:
OK ... Let's point the elephant in the room is actually the 10bit mode that has strict needs.The Eizo 60hz panel could do youtube fine and this didn't so.... what was different about this 60hz monitor than the other 60hz monitor .... The 10bit mode ! Every custom refresh rate dropped down to 8bit mode. It came to my mind to force 8bit mode and leave 60hz and the youtube is working correctly...
10bit is not working with lower refresh rates so monitor will not match the 24p and 25p content correctly automatically...
Vast majority of gaming monitors are 8bit so they have no problems like this.
10bit + 60hz monitors is not a recommend combination for playing 24p and 25p content.
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Old Feb 27, 2021, 03:21 PM   #14
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10-bit seems excessive for either sRGB, or Adobe RGB. But I agree with the comments above. While you may prefer the picture in Adobe RGB, sRGB would be the "correct," picture.
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Old Feb 27, 2021, 03:37 PM   #15
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I honestly have a hard time believe you are not a troll. I get you are from romania and i really don't know what's available to you over there, but dude, seriously, 60hz is garbage, if you even remotely want to game you're gonna have a bad time.

To be honest you've done nothing but troll here for the past few weeks and honestly think whenever everyone else tells you are wrong you are right. We all have years of pc gaming experience to call bullshit when it's bullshit.

Either listen to us and do what we suggest or stop complaining because you made a bad decision and want to justify it with bs facts to make yourself feel better about it.
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Old Feb 27, 2021, 03:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metroidfox View Post
10-bit seems excessive for either sRGB, or Adobe RGB. But I agree with the comments above. While you may prefer the picture in Adobe RGB, sRGB would be the "correct," picture.
The things are not made natively for Adobe RGB except the profesional apps.
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Old Feb 27, 2021, 03:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evileh View Post
I honestly have a hard time believe you are not a troll. I get you are from romania and i really don't know what's available to you over there, but dude, seriously, 60hz is garbage, if you even remotely want to game you're gonna have a bad time.

To be honest you've done nothing but troll here for the past few weeks and honestly think whenever everyone else tells you are wrong you are right. We all have years of pc gaming experience to call bullshit when it's bullshit.

Either listen to us and do what we suggest or stop complaining because you made a bad decision and want to justify it with bs facts to make yourself feel better about it.
I stepped into unknown with my decision so is an experimentation ground.
Also i will continue to "troll" because there will be new challenges that arise.Enjoy the info here!
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Old Feb 28, 2021, 02:30 AM   #18
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I had my DSRL lying around but haven't used so much for a couple of years.A couple of years ago i've done some RAW image manipulation and Black and white photography. This days not so much.
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Old Feb 28, 2021, 04:38 AM   #19
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Did the monitor come with turds?
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Old Feb 28, 2021, 10:05 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAC View Post
Did the monitor come with turds?

What you mean ?
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Old Feb 28, 2021, 11:23 AM   #21
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Default 24p content playback challenges

I encountered this challenge about playing 24fps and 25fps content on youtube when the 60hz is locked.In my case it was because of the 10bit mode that doesn't support lower refresh rates.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/24p

This requires a translator from german.
https://www.prad.de/lexikon/24p/
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Old Feb 28, 2021, 01:01 PM   #22
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Graphics cards' control panels have options for doing pulldown. This should have little to nothing to do with 10-bit vs. 8-bit.


Saying this, I suspect that monitor of yours uses dithering to get to 10-bit. So it is actually a native 8-bit panel.
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Old Feb 28, 2021, 01:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badsykes View Post
The things are not made natively for Adobe RGB except the profesional apps.

Yes, so you should only be using the Adobe RGB profile when using said Adobe software.
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Old Feb 28, 2021, 01:55 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metroidfox View Post
Graphics cards' control panels have options for doing pulldown. This should have little to nothing to do with 10-bit vs. 8-bit.


Saying this, I suspect that monitor of yours uses dithering to get to 10-bit. So it is actually a native 8-bit panel.

hmm ... i didn't think AMD and Nvidia added this in their control panel
Thx for the idea.I will search into it.
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Old Feb 28, 2021, 01:57 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metroidfox View Post
Graphics cards' control panels have options for doing pulldown. This should have little to nothing to do with 10-bit vs. 8-bit.
Also I realized this awhile ago... pretty sure YouTube does 3:2 pulldown it self. So judder shouldn't be to big an issue with 24fps content on YT. 50fps content is another story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by metroidfox View Post
Saying this, I suspect that monitor of yours uses dithering to get to 10-bit. So it is actually a native 8-bit panel.
It's not. He bought a photography monitor with a 10-bit IPS panel and low input lag.
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Old Feb 28, 2021, 02:15 PM   #26
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Also I realized this awhile ago... pretty sure YouTube does 3:2 pulldown it self. So judder shouldn't be to big an issue with 24fps content on YT. 50fps content is another story.



It's not. He bought a photography monitor with a 10-bit IPS panel and low input lag.

Youtube didn't aleviate the 3:2 pulldown it for me.I had to solve it myself.I now disable 10bit when looking at youtube or movies until i find another solution.Judder was very bad for me.
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Old Feb 28, 2021, 02:35 PM   #27
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It's not. He bought a photography monitor with a 10-bit IPS panel and low input lag.

Maybe. I guess this is completely unrelated to the topic, but 8-bit is more than enough for either sRGB/Adobe RGB.


Unless this monitor is trying to achieve a wider colour space like DCI-P3, 10-bit doesn't seem necessary.
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Old Feb 28, 2021, 02:54 PM   #28
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Maybe. I guess this is completely unrelated to the topic, but 8-bit is more than enough for either sRGB/Adobe RGB.


Unless this monitor is trying to achieve a wider colour space like DCI-P3, 10-bit doesn't seem necessary.
It's factory calibrated for %100 AdobeRGB and 95% of the DCI-P3. badsykes was aiming for a colour accurate monitor.

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Youtube didn't aleviate the 3:2 pulldown it for me.I had to solve it myself.I now disable 10bit when looking at youtube or movies until i find another solution.Judder was very bad for me.
Damn. Well you still get judder with 3:2 pulldown, it's just supposed to reduce it. Your only other option would be running at 24Hz. Which if you can only do at 8-bit, that is fine though. The monitor doesn't have HDR, so all the youtube content is 8-bit anyway.

You could also try different browsers and see how they handle YT content. Generally speaking, Chrome based browsers work better than non-chrome based ones. Example being that FF can't even display HDR content in YT.
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Old Feb 28, 2021, 03:09 PM   #29
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I tried a movie after all that has fps that varries between 23.96 / 23.97 / 23.98 fps in 10bit and also checked 10bit input and output in media player classic.I watched the movie in Media Players Classic 1.9.9 version and worked fine.Only youtube remain with judder problems.
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Old Feb 28, 2021, 03:14 PM   #30
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Which browser are you using? Do all browsers do it?


If you're using Chrome/Edge/Vivaldi/Brave you need to try on something actually different, like Firefox.
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