GraphEdit Tips and Tricks

[weblurker]

Originally Posted by rbq

Thanks for your response greg. It only happens with the hdtv wonder. I have a samsung ts160 and it tunes fine on 40-1 and 39-1. 40-1 shows up as 9-1 and 39-1 as 4-1. I suspect that it is something to do with the windows or the actual tuner itself.
rbq

Hi rbq. I and two of my friends bought HDTV Wonders a few weeks ago. We're eperiencing the same problem with CFTO as you've described, audio but no video on 40-1 even though the signal strength shown in WatchHDTV is over 90%.

Did you find a fix for this problem? I've entered a problem ticket on the ATI support web site, but if it's something that can be fixed with graph edit, I'll cancel the ticket.

[rbq]

Originally Posted by weblurker

Hi rbq. I and two of my friends bought HDTV Wonders a few weeks ago. We're eperiencing the same problem with CFTO as you've described, audio but no video on 40-1 even though the signal strength shown in WatchHDTV is over 90%.

Did you find a fix for this problem? I've entered a problem ticket on the ATI support web site, but if it's something that can be fixed with graph edit, I'll cancel the ticket.

I can watch CFTO in graphedit as 40-4 but if I enter those values into watchhdtv I get a strong signal but no audio or video. In mmc I only get audio. In other words it only works in graphedit!
rbq

[xtknight]

For this you need to use the Video Mixing Renderer. Also you will need proppage.dll registered. I'll use VMR9 here. This also requires you have a basic understanding of GraphEdit and its components already. If not maybe you can try and replicate my dialogs and graph somewhat and get results.

Setup your capture path like usual for each device. ([WDM TV Tuner]->[WDM TV Audio]->WDM Crossbar(s)->WDM Capture->Output). Route the crossbar's internal connections under the Properties on the crossbar.

For my example I will be using my ATI TV Wonder USB 2.0 (RF) and eVGA GeForce 7800GT VIVO (S-Video) card for capture sources.

Connect it like so. Put each capture path to its own VMR stream. In the graph below my main window is the analog TV because that's the only capture device that also supplies audio. I want the audio of my main window and just the video of my PIP source. (I made HD the main window in example 1 just for showing. Example 2 uses analog TV/main, HD/PIP.)

Adjust the VMR9 properties so VMR Input1 (PIP) is small and in the corner. Leave VMR Input0 as-is.

Graph layout:



Properties:



VMR9 properties:

VMR Input0: VMR Input1:

Example:
"HDTV" (via S-Video)/NBC on the main window and Analog TV/ABC in the little window.

Example 2:
You can even make the PIP translucent by adjusting Alpha on VMR Input1.

I hope this post doesn't appear too large. Dial-up users are going to murder me in my sleep.

[smerrick]

Hi,

I have only installed the necessary HDTV Wonder and SB Audigy 2 (not ZS) drivers and applications. I'm totally new to GraphEdit, but have played with it a little bit and reconstructed the HDTV Wonder graph. It works fine.

When using ATI MMC 9.08 I can select AUDIO option to pass through to CyberLink Audio Renderer (ATI). Doing this allows me to use SPDIF output of Audigy 2 with home theater for surround sound.

Using GraphEdit, I've noticed if I plug in CyberLink Audio Renderer (ATI) then GraphEdit automatically inserts CyberLink Audio Decoder (ATI) connected first! Someone mentioned in the forum that CyberLink Audio Decoder (ATI) is only stereo sound, correct?

Why can't I find a way to build surround capable graph with GraphEdit and my installed filters? Am I just overlooking the right one, or will I need to install another decoder JUST for GraphEdit surround?

THANKS!
Shawn

[rwcx183]

I'm not sure why you want to use the Cyberlink Audio Renderer (ATI). Why not use the Default Direct Sound Device? BTW, if I insert the Cyberlink Audio Renderer (ATI), it does not automatically insert the CyberLink Audio Decoder (ATI). Still, even if it did, it's a small matter to point to the connecting line and delete it. Then you should be able to insert a DD 5.1 surround compatible decoder and connect it to the Default DirectSound Device. It's possible that even the CyberLink Audio Renderer will work with 5.1, if you fix the decoder first. You can use a different decoder, or there's a hack to get the CyberLink decoder to work, by copying the .sim license file from your fully licensed Cyberlink folder, to the crippled ATI licensed CyberLink folder. Then even the ati version will decode DD 5.1.

J.G.

[grog]

The "Default Direct Sound Device" is connected after the MPEG audio filter, in this case the "CyberLink Audio Decoder (ATI)".

With GraphEdit you do have control over the filter and by right-clicking on the filter used you will see the property page for that filter.

The following links should help:
ATI HDTV WONDER - Sound filter options
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost...0&postcount=88

AC3Filter:
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost...&postcount=109

GSpot information.
GSpot is used to force filter merit. When used correctly the connections in GraphEdit will do so with the filter you have set to the highest merit for that class automatically when the pin is rendered.

http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=GSpot
http://www.headbands.com/gspot/

WatchHDTV:
The newer version of WatchHDTV has a nice feature that allows override of the audio and video filters used. Simply create a "decoders.txt" file with notepad in the same location as the program and add the filter names.
The names must match with what is used in GraphEdit but it works like a charm.

AC3Filer

CyberLink Video/SP Decoder
AC3Filter

CyberLink PowerDVD6

CyberLink Video/SP Decoder
CyberLink Audio Decoder

CyberLink ATI

CyberLink Video/SP Decoder (ATI)
CyberLink Audio Decoder (ATI)

http://mysite.verizon.net/watchhdtv/home/
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=590020

Greg

Originally Posted by rwcx183

I'm not sure why you want to use the Cyberlink Audio Renderer (ATI). Why not use the Default Direct Sound Device? BTW, if I insert the Cyberlink Audio Renderer (ATI), it does not automatically insert the CyberLink Audio Decoder (ATI). Still, even if it did, it's a small matter to point to the connecting line and delete it. Then you should be able to insert a DD 5.1 surround compatible decoder and connect it to the Default DirectSound Device. It's possible that even the CyberLink Audio Renderer will work with 5.1, if you fix the decoder first. You can use a different decoder, or there's a hack to get the CyberLink decoder to work, by copying the .sim license file from your fully licensed Cyberlink folder, to the crippled ATI licensed CyberLink folder. Then even the ati version will decode DD 5.1.

J.G.

[ROBSCIX]

Hey guys, not tryinjg to get off topic here..I am new to graph edit but I like it is fun to cennect up these modules and have it do what I want. I can create simple TV plyers and such. I was wondering how do I get S-VIdeo or COmposite in? I have a AIW 9600XT, I have looked and looked and can't seem to find the setting. Also is there a site that deals specifically with this program so a person can learn how to use it completely or is this the place? and I should read through all the info? also I got my graphedit with a codec pack is there a upgrade or updated version? also is there like certain apps and filter that I should have? thx for the info guys I didn't think I would be able to find anyone who could answer these questions...

[ROBSCIX]

GOT IT!! ok use the cross bar...ok another question..is it possible with one AIW card to have the TV TUNER and one of the AUX_INS enabled same time? such as the composite or the S_video? thx for any help guys..

[grog]

Microsoft Windows XP Professional x64 Edition
ATI All-in-Wonder® X1800 XL 256MB PCI Express®

Display Driver Catalyst Control Center 6.8
WDM Integrated Driver

6-8_xp64_dd_ccc_35180.exe
6-8_xp64_wdm_35180.exe



Yes you can watch TV with the latest ATI drivers just fine.

Direct link to image
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/4760/tvgk0.jpg

[SciDoctor]

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX

GOT IT!! ok use the cross bar...ok another question..is it possible with one AIW card to have the TV TUNER and one of the AUX_INS enabled same time? such as the composite or the S_video? thx for any help guys..

Unfortunately not as the crossbar only allows one video stream
(AIW and VIVO) and one audio stream(for AIW)

[Heinz68]

Thanks nice infos in the thread. (Also looking for 5 post )

[joebob2442]

Ok, relatively new to all of this but I just got an HDTV wonder and have had no end of issues in getting it to run. I've been trolling around here and a few other sites and have made a lot of updates but so far, I'm not having any luck:

GraphEdit issue: I build the sample ATI HDTV graph and it looks just fine. Only problem I have is trying to set the properties on the Microsoft ATSC Network Provider. I get an error stating that the requested property page could not be displayed. Because of this, I am unable to set the channel for the tuner.

WatchHDTV issue: I know, likely off topic but in case it sheds any light on things, I have created a decoders.txt file with the CyberLink vidio and audio decoders (ATI versions). It comes up ok but if I get a channel that has any content (so not a blank screen b/c the signal is too low) I get a short studder, a picture freeze while audio continues to stutter and then finally, everything crashes and reboots.

I am using an ATI HDTV Wonder with an x800 XT Platinum. XP Pro with SP 2 and the latest updates. DirectX is up to date. I have the 6.9 Catalyst drivers and the latest HDTV wonder drivers and decoders (never installed anything from the CD directly, only had it in to do the verification for the decoders installed from ATI).

I have not seen anything in the debug from WatchHDTV and am unsure how to turn anything else on from a debugging standpoint.

Any thoughts?

[grog]

You must register the graphedit DLL.

GraphEdit Property Page Issue

For any who are having issues with the newer DXDSK showing property pages with GraphEdit you must register the proppage.dll first.

Find the proppage.dll and register it.

regsvr32 \dxsdk_feb2005_extras\extras\Extras\DirectShow\Utilities\proppage.dll

Now the graph property pages should work fine.

BTW: This is on the first page of this thread...

[joebob2442]

Thanks Grog, I was just about to respond that I saw this on the front page. Registered it and now I can alter the props. Down side is now GraphEdit is working just how I had described my issue with WatchHDTV. So still stuck with a constantly crashing system. Forgot to mention that I also have the latest .Net and Direct X updates as well.

[Freddy2]

Hello all,

I just made my first graph, so that I could finally (see my other thread) listen to FM Radio with my AIW X800XT, while doing some legacy things in Windows 98SE!

Here it is:


Remember to set the Tuning Mode to FM Radio and
in the ATI AV Crossbar Properties to associate the Audio Decoder Out (Pin 3) to the Audio Tuner In (Pin 4).

This is, of course, while using the WDM SP Drivers (and MMC 9.03 for TV and DVD)!

Freddy

[grog]

Good work Freedy...

And now for those who are using the WDM stream driver....

Click on thumnail



Direct link to image
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9045/fmradiott9.jpg

[Freddy2]

Hello again,

this one is almost too simple to post here, but it nevertheless solves a problem a lot of us AIW users are having:



Now you can finally keep Stereo sound while using TVOD! All you have to do is assign a Shortcut key (or even a RW key) to this GraphEdit file and every time you start TVOD (Timeshifting) and the sound turns to Mono, you push this key and... you have Stereo again!

Freddy

[shaggy71875]

ok this card has vivo and i have my cable box hooked up to the svideo input
i need some help building a graph to view tv or to enable it in mce. mce says no tuners present. i can get a picture with windows movie maker and windows media encoder and a program called asus virtual vcr (pvr type software from my old 9800xt card.) sorry if this has been coverd i saw one with the x800 vivo card but the graph photos were gone.

[scotty_mcd]

Hello all,

I'm new to the forum and I have a little experience with GraphEdit. Something that has been a problem for me for quite a while is that .grf files can't be ported from one system to another (to my knowledge). Is there some way to create generalized graphs using the "friendly name" for the capture filters or can you modify the GUIDs/CLSIDs in the registry?

I have been in many situations where I would like to send a graph file to someone else or create a graph on a single system and copy the .grf to other systems with the same hardware. How can I accomplish this? Is there a guide that I have missed somewhere on this forum that explains capture drivers and .grf files in depth?

I would love to be able to write a software tool that could either automatically create a graph for certain capture devices, or modify a graph for use on other systems. Unfortunately, I don't have a great understanding of the way capture works in the Windows registry.

I have read through most of this thread and I've already learned a great deal. Thanks in advance to everyone for their help with this question!

Scott

[grog]

Well I broke down and bought the newer PowerDVD 7 tonight.

So here are the graphs.

Simple HDTV Wonder graph using PDVD7 Video and Audio filters


HDTV Wonder and AIW X1800-XL using PIP with captions.



Other notes
Using GSPOT I also increased the merit of the "CyberLink Audio Decoder (PDVD7)" filter so applications will use it as the default over the ATI version. The "CyberLink Video/SP Decoder (PDVD7)" merit did not require changing on my system.

For those who are using WatchHDTV here is the "decoders.txt" which may be used to force the Cyberlink filters over the ATI ones when using WatchHDTV.

http://watchhdtv.net/default.aspx


decoders.txt

CyberLink Video/SP Decoder (PDVD7)
CyberLink Audio Decoder (PDVD7)

Direct Link to Images
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2...vwonderge1.jpg
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6...wonde2rkw9.jpg

[topperdude]

Hi,

I recently came across this page while trying to figure out how to build a graph for my AIW Radeon (this is the original Radeon without any numbers like 7500, 8500, etc).

I've finally managed to create a graph that allows me to render video and write it to an mpeg file (using GBPVR's file writer), but I'm not getting any audio.

I am unable to attach a screenshot of my graph to this post (perhaps because I am a newbie?), but you can get it from my post in the GBPVR forum: http://forums.gbpvr.com/showpost.php...9&postcount=33

Would appreciate any thoughts on how I can get audio working.

Thanks,
-Topper

[grog]

To set the audio connection simply use the Crossbar.

See the ATI 8500DV example I posted sometime back:

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost...1&postcount=77

Originally Posted by topperdude

Hi,

I recently came across this page while trying to figure out how to build a graph for my AIW Radeon (this is the original Radeon without any numbers like 7500, 8500, etc).

I've finally managed to create a graph that allows me to render video and write it to an mpeg file (using GBPVR's file writer), but I'm not getting any audio.

I am unable to attach a screenshot of my graph to this post (perhaps because I am a newbie?), but you can get it from my post in the GBPVR forum: http://forums.gbpvr.com/showpost.php...9&postcount=33

Would appreciate any thoughts on how I can get audio working.

Thanks,
-Topper

[topperdude]

Originally Posted by grog

To set the audio connection simply use the Crossbar.

See the ATI 8500DV example I posted sometime back:

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost...1&postcount=77

Grog,

Thanks for the suggestion. I did use your 8500DV example as a starting point and came up with the graph I linked in my previous post. The Audio decoder out in your example does not seem to be connected to any audio device - how does sound get rendered in that example?

In my example, I have connected to the Audio Decoder Out pin on the ATI TV Audio Crossbar to the Line In on the Sound card (the AIW Radeon is connected externally to the Line In on the soundcard). The Capture pin on the Sound card's filter is connected to the XForm In pin of the ATI Audio Mpeg Encoder. The XForm Out on this filter is then connected to the ATI Mpeg Multiplexer, which also takes the Mpeg Video as input and writes it to the MPG file. You can see a screenshot of this in this link http://forums.gbpvr.com/showpost.php...9&postcount=33. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
-Topper

[topperdude]

I played around with Graphedit some more to try and fix the "no audio" problem. Basically, I connected the Audio Decoder Out pin from the ATI TV Audio Crossbar to the LineIn on the sound card and connected the Capture pin on the sound card to the Audio Input Pin (Rendered) on the Default DirectSound Device filter. On playing the graph, there were no errors, but there was no sound either. (Note: The audio was fed into the Audio Crossbar from the ATI TV Tuner filter via the ATI TV Audio filter)

The other strange thing I noticed was when I right click Properties on the ATI TV Audio Crossbar, the property page only shows "Video Composite In" in the dropdown on the left hand (Input) side. It does not show the other pins (viz. Video S-Video In, Video Tuner In, Audio Line, Audio Tuner In) even though the filter in the graph shows these pins. Any idea why this may be happening? I have uploaded screenshots of these property pages (as well as my graph) on this link: http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=...&x=0&y=-i54dmq

I also noticed that GraphEdit has an option called "connect to external graph" or something similar. I know that the AIW card works just fine (w/ audio and video) with a PVR software (Got All Media) and the drivers/filters installed on my computer. Is there some way I can access the "graph" used by Got All Media and import it into GraphEdit?

Thanks for any input,
-Topper

[scotty_mcd]

Originally Posted by scotty_mcd

Hello all,

I'm new to the forum and I have a little experience with GraphEdit. Something that has been a problem for me for quite a while is that .grf files can't be ported from one system to another (to my knowledge). Is there some way to create generalized graphs using the "friendly name" for the capture filters or can you modify the GUIDs/CLSIDs in the registry?

I have been in many situations where I would like to send a graph file to someone else or create a graph on a single system and copy the .grf to other systems with the same hardware. How can I accomplish this? Is there a guide that I have missed somewhere on this forum that explains capture drivers and .grf files in depth?

I would love to be able to write a software tool that could either automatically create a graph for certain capture devices, or modify a graph for use on other systems. Unfortunately, I don't have a great understanding of the way capture works in the Windows registry.

I have read through most of this thread and I've already learned a great deal. Thanks in advance to everyone for their help with this question!

Scott

If anyone has any knowledge they'd like to share regarding the above questions, I would really like to hear from you.

I have a different question regarding capture using the ATI T200 AVStream capture driver. I have a great deal of experience working with the All-In-Wonder cards and found that video capture quality changed drastically when ATI changed their capture driver to AVStream. For example, when using an AIW 9600XT, Catalyst 4.7 (RageTheater capture driver) gave great quality capture with no interlacing straight out of the Capture/Preview pin. If you upgrade to Catalyst 5 or higher, the AVStream capture driver is used and you get interlaced video.

In addition to the interlacing problem, I have found that over time, the audio and video streams get out of sync. This gets worse over time. I did a lot of testing with the X800 XL and it didn't seem to matter whether I used a deinterlace filter for better quality or simply went straight from the capture pin to the renderer. I also tried both VMR9 and the regular video renderer.

Cards that support hardware MPEG-2 encoding do not seem to have these types of issues. I suppose this is because encoding and then decoding from MPEG will time stamp the two streams so that they stay in sync. (Maybe those of you more familiar with this can elaborate or correct me if I'm way off in this assumption.) I have found that the easiest way to find out if a capture card has hardware MPEG support is to look for a WDM Streaming Multiplexer device in the filters list. None of the ATI AIW cards seem to support hardware MPEG so you can't connect the PCM/YUY outputs on the capture filter to anything.

I found the AIW cards pre Catalyst 4.7 to be really great capture cards but I have had so many problems with them since then, I have stopped using them completely. The TV Wonder Elite (or any 550 Pro OEM card) and 650 both support hardware MPEG, as do the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR series of cards so I have been sticking to these lately.

I dealt with ATI's Professional Services team regarding the A/V sync problem for a while and they confirmed that it was an issue. I asked them how they were able to overcome it in the ATI TV software but they were never able to give me an answer (ATI's different groups are like entirely different companies within the main company and they couldn't get access to the driver team). After a while I just gave up as I could tell that it wasn't a priority for them.

Has anyone else run into these issues, and if so, how have you solved them? Thanks again.

Scott

[chui]

Hi,

Does anyone try the MSI [email protected] Card before? I tried to play the ATSC Digital TV from its Antenna, but failed. Can anyone provide a good graphs that works. When I use the PowerCinema to get the ATSC TV Tuner, it works. I just don't how to create a good GraphEdit Filters to get the ATSC TV Tuner.

Thanks.

[Freddy2]

Hello again!

As some of you might know, the AiW X800 series has problems with FM Radio Stereo reception, or actually... it has no FM Stereo reception: only Mono, even though it says it's Stereo!
Now I already had a Digital Cable Set Top Box connected to the AiW S-Video Input, which gives a great picture. This Box also offers Digital Radio and of course I could listen to it with the MMC TV application, but I would rather use the MMC FM Radio application for this. It's just that it doesn't offer the option of choosing the External sourse, like the TV app. does.
But that's why we have GraphEdit, is it not!?... So here is my, extremely simple, Graph that you can use while in MMC FM Radio, to switch the source from the Tuner to the Line In:



Enjoy listening to Digital FM Radio in STEREO!!!

Freddy

P.S.: Any other Analog FM Radio can be used as a source too of course!

[grog]

Windows 7 and the T200 Example using the ATI AIW X1800 XL PCI-E Card

Yes, it's our first example of using GraphEdit with Windows 7.

Technically the T200 WDM driver works not only under Vista but also under Windows 7. You can not however use the TV card under Windows Media Center.

Programs such as GraphEdit and VLC will work fine with the ATI AIW X1800-XL for analog TV.





Yes... GraphEdit lives!

VLC works too

Secondary System
* Monitor: Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW 24" LCD (Shared via KVM) 
* Motherboard: DFI Lanparty UT CFX3200-DR Socket 939 ATI CrossFire Radeon Xpress 3200 - BIOS 07/28/2006
* CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Dual Core 
* Memory: CORSAIR XMS 4GB (4 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) TWINX2048-3200C2PRO
* Video: ATI All-in-Wonder® X1800 XL 256MB PCI Express® 
* ATI HDTV Wonder Remote Control Edition PCI TV Tuner
* Sound: Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite Pro Sound Card 
* Ethernet: Dual Gigabit LAN - Marvell 88E8052 and Marvell 88E8053
* Hard Disk-1: Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3300622AS 300GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive 
* Hard Disk-2: Maxtor 120GB Model 6L120P0 120GB Hard Drive 
* DVD-R/RW: SONY White IDE DVD Burner Model DRU810A 
* DVD-R/RW: SONY Silver USB 2.0/i.LINK External DVD Burner Model DRX810UL 
* CASE: Thermaltake Tai-Chi VB5001SNA Black/ Silver Computer Case with liquid cooling
* LCD-TEMP: AeroCool GateWatch-SV Silver GateWatch with LCD display 
* PSU: PC Power & Cooling 510 SLI-PFC 510W 
* UPS: APC Back-UPS XS 1000 UPS, 1000 VA, 600 Watts
* OS: Microsoft Windows XP Media Center 2005 Rollup 2 / SP3
* OS: Fedora 10 - x86_64 
* OS: Windows 7 Beta

[grog]

Force audio playback on HDMI
In the following case we simply replace the default sound device with the (ATI HDMI Audio) filter.
Notice in this case my default device is not the HDMI sound device.
When the sound is played from this sample we only hear it on the HDMI sound device.



Case 2 - We want our audio on more than one device
Using the 'Infinite Pin Tee Filter' we can allow output to several devices at once. Who said we could not do this in Vista!



Case 3 - Connect all output from one audio device to another

In this test case we will connect all the XFI 'What-You-Hear' output to the HDMI Audio device. In effect when we run this graph all output heard via the XFI is bridged to the HDMI audio port as well. Simply run the graph and all ouput will go to both devices.



Or we can send the output to more than on device using the Infinite Pin Tee Filter.

[grog]

Enjoy!