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Old Oct 23, 2021, 07:45 AM   #121
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Mangler
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RE4 VR is kind of awesome, and it really is a shame that it is stuck on a low powered device.

But sadly, oculus is the only one willing to pay for big VR titles, so RIP PCVR, long live stand-alone VR.
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Old Oct 23, 2021, 08:02 AM   #122
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Just picked up RE4 for the Quest 2.
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Old Oct 23, 2021, 09:12 AM   #123
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But sadly, oculus is the only one willing to pay for big VR titles, so RIP PCVR, long live stand-alone VR.
Seems that way. Plus, so long as no-one's making big PC titles, I'm sure the PCVR headsets are going to dry up some time over the next five years as well. Which means no-one's going to make big titles. I wonder how Lone Echo 2 fairs, which is - I think - one of the last PCVR Oculus titles?
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Old Oct 23, 2021, 10:54 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Mangler View Post
RE4 VR is kind of awesome, and it really is a shame that it is stuck on a low powered device.

But sadly, oculus is the only one willing to pay for big VR titles, so RIP PCVR, long live stand-alone VR.
I'm very much in favor of targeting games for Quest nowadays. For most studios (who aren't Valve), targeting a VR game for PC is a pretty dumb thing to do right now. Resident Evil 4 will make WAAAAY more $$ as a Quest-native title than it would on PC.

The best-case scenario is to target your game for Quest, then release a bumped-up version for PC that adds lots of graphical bells-and-whistles. For games that have both options available (and support cross-buy), I usually play the PC version over Air Link.

Sure, it limits the game design a bit. But I think this will serve to create a healthier VR ecosystem, making games more widely available and making it easier for devs to make a profit. And any gameplay limitations will be alleviated over time as we see more powerful stand-alone headsets released over the next few years.
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Old Oct 25, 2021, 02:01 AM   #125
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New Virtual Desktop update adds Contrast Adaptive Sharpening (basically FSR). Tried it today, and geez it looks good. By far the best I've ever seen anything look on my Quest 2. I mean, it feels like newly updated screens. I really didn't know that the Quest 2 screens could look this sharp.

Cool thing is, the CAS works on basically every game, as it's built into the VD software, not relying on any specific game code. Also, I'm hearing some chatter that the CAS is actually running on the headset itself (like VD's frame interpolation does), so it doesn't cost any performance on your PC at all... although I haven't verified whether that's true.

VD has always had a bit of an image-quality advantage over Air Link, but this is quite a jump further. I also think VD has much better color grading than Air Link... colors just seem to pop alot more, and contrast feels more contrasty... Night-time levels on Robo Recall feel almost like you're playing on an OLED screen.

VD has a frame-interpolation feature (Godin's version of ASW), but I can't seem to get it to work right. Turning it to the "auto" mode just cuts my framerate in half and makes everything juttery, whereas things are perfectly smooth if I turn it off. Too bad, 'cause I think running frame interpolation on the headset is a really great option. Maybe he'll get that right in the next release?
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Old Oct 27, 2021, 06:59 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Mangler View Post
RE4 VR is kind of awesome, and it really is a shame that it is stuck on a low powered device.

But sadly, oculus is the only one willing to pay for big VR titles, so RIP PCVR, long live stand-alone VR.
It's honestly too bad that Valve is so cheap. All that Steam money and they mostly just pocket it. If they were less stingy about funding VR development they could have done a lot more to counter Oculus and push PC VR. They did some good work on the hardware side, but in terms of software they seem to just expect it to fall into their lap by virtue of having the dominant PC gaming store. But if all the money ends up being in stand alone VR then, well...
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Old Oct 28, 2021, 01:35 AM   #127
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It's honestly too bad that Valve is so cheap. All that Steam money and they mostly just pocket it. If they were less stingy about funding VR development they could have done a lot more to counter Oculus and push PC VR. They did some good work on the hardware side, but in terms of software they seem to just expect it to fall into their lap by virtue of having the dominant PC gaming store. But if all the money ends up being in stand alone VR then, well...
That isnt how valve works. If the software on it was lacking its because there wasnt anyone on the team who wanted to work on the software. They literally let their devs just work on whatever they feel like.
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Old Oct 28, 2021, 04:40 AM   #128
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That isnt how valve works. If the software on it was lacking its because there wasnt anyone on the team who wanted to work on the software. They literally let their devs just work on whatever they feel like.
Time for Valve to start a publishing branch. Pump some money into developers who would love to make big things in VR, but simply can't afford the risk right now. I'm sure they could.

Then again, I'm also sure Gabe cares about different things, so the odds of this happening are close to zero for the foreseeable future.
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Old Oct 28, 2021, 11:30 AM   #129
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Just learned about this. Could spice up VR.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1127310/HelixVision/

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HelixVision starts with an easy to use interface to your installed games. One click launches your game into a VR environment that is a virtual giant stereoscopic screen, like a 3D home theater. Using Nvidia 3D Vision and the HelixMod converts them from 2D into stereoscopic 3D to play on the virtual theater. The screen is fully adjustable to your liking, including distance, size, vertical location, curve, and 3D strength.

HelixVision does not convert your games into full VR experiences, it is a big screen, 3D theater experience. You will still use your keyboard/mouse or game controllers to play. The VR controllers are used to adjust the game theater to your liking. HelixVision works with all VR headsets, including Index, Rift-S, and WMR.
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Old Oct 28, 2021, 11:34 AM   #130
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It does not work with new drivers, so no rtx 3xxx support.
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Old Oct 28, 2021, 12:07 PM   #131
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Facebook Connect livestream is going. Will see what they announce today.


--updated impressions--

  • Zuck's not doing a great job explaining this metaverse vision. It's alot of word-salad that's not going to mean much to most people.

  • San Andreas announced for Quest. Why no GTA3 or Vice City?

  • Detaching the facebook account requirement from Quest, so you can sign in with other kinds of accounts instead. Smart move.

  • No new Quest product announced. They mentioned that they'll have a higher-priced VR headset next year that will be compatible with Quest. Actually I really like what they expressed, that they want a higher price platform to show new technology, until they can eventually release those features at the Quest price-point. I think this is a very smart strategy.

  • Facebook changed their company name to "Meta". Honestly I think they should have just gone with "Meh".

Honestly I'm surprised that they didn't announce any concrete products or features. In previous years we've seen them announce Link, hand-tracking, new headsets, etc. (I was hoping to see them announce hand-tracking API's available for Rift games, or something like that) This whole conference seems very conceptual, big ideas, but nothing to really showcase. I found the whole keynote to be pretty underwhelming. It's too bad, 'cause in almost every way I think Oculus is firing on all cylinders right now, it's a very exciting time for the industry, and Facebook has lots to brag about.
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Old Oct 28, 2021, 01:00 PM   #132
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Vanilla San Andreas or the definite edition?
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Old Oct 28, 2021, 01:24 PM   #133
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Vanilla San Andreas or the definite edition?
I assume it'll be the Unreal Engine remake... it would take a ton of work to make the old one work with Quest.
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To be honest I never even found doom 3 to be scary since I have a big dick since birth.

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Old Oct 28, 2021, 01:30 PM   #134
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Cool.

I can see why they went with San Andreas if they are only going to port one of the ps2 era games though, it had so much content, even the modern gtas cannot match San Andreas in terms of side content.
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Old Oct 28, 2021, 01:56 PM   #135
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Cool.

I can see why they went with San Andreas if they are only going to port one of the ps2 era games though, it had so much content, even the modern gtas cannot match San Andreas in terms of side content.
I kindof disagree. They're porting the whole trilogy to Unreal Engine... it's probably a trivial amount of work to bring the first 2 games to VR.

I suspect that what they really meant was that Facebook paid for exclusivity for San Andreas... That would mean all 3 games will have VR support, but you won't be able to play San Andreas VR on Steam.
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Old Oct 28, 2021, 10:41 PM   #136
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[*]Detaching the facebook account requirement from Quest, so you can sign in with other kinds of accounts instead.
This is huge BUT its just a marketing scheme. This new "Meta" company will still hand over all your VR and personal data directly into Facebook's hard drives.
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Old Oct 29, 2021, 04:50 AM   #137
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explains why the san andreas remaster got so much more work and assets than the other two. not sure i like that, but if its the reason we get the them... iunno
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Old Nov 10, 2021, 12:04 PM   #138
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Into the Radius got a big update. (STALKER like VR game)

No clue if its worth the $$$ yet.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1...the_Radius_VR/
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Old Nov 19, 2021, 10:26 AM   #139
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Wow, did not know mods are turning all these nonVR games into VR playable games.
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Old Nov 19, 2021, 11:55 AM   #140
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btw, Quest 2 has sold 10 million+ units now. Despite the title of the thread, it appears that VR is transitioning into the mainstream. I expect that this holiday season will be big for Quest 2. Next year maybe PSVR will launch? Eventually someone's going to make a standalone compute system for PCVR as well. I expect that in a few years, we'll see the success of multiple mainstream VR platforms.
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Old Nov 19, 2021, 12:06 PM   #141
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Metabook had already sold millions of quest 2 units when this thread was created.

It is PCVR that might be dying, not VR.
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Old Nov 19, 2021, 01:08 PM   #142
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Metabook had already sold millions of quest 2 units when this thread was created.

It is PCVR that might be dying, not VR.
Maybe. And maybe PCVR deserves to die? At least, I think there are a number of user experience issues that need to be solved before PCVR can be competitive with the cheaper options (Like Quest 2).
  • Easier setup.
  • Wireless play.
  • More consistent interaction patterns.
  • More consistent features to expect from games that support VR.

There are things that PCVR does that Quest can't really touch right now, such as racing sims and flight sims. But geez it's a pain in the butt getting those to run properly in VR. MS Flight Simulator just added support for VR controllers and it's a janky mess. Project Cars 3 has significantly worse VR support than Project Cars 2.

Otherwise you've got games like HL: Alyx that push the case for PCVR. But those are rare, and frankly we're seeing Quest games push closer and closer into that territory.

People will hate me saying this, but I think PC gaming needs to become more like consoles. Steam Deck, imo, is a glimpse into the future of PC gaming. It's easy to imagine a revival of the Steambox concept taking hold, where you can buy reasonably powerful pre-made gaming machines for near-console prices, that are super easy to setup, and game devs target their games to run well on that specific hardware spec. Pair that with a wireless VR headset, and I think PCVR is saved.

My question is which will happen first? Will somebody (like valve) solve these problems on PCVR? Or will Quest 3 & 4 become powerful enough to capture more of a PCVR experience?

-----------

A friend of mine recently asked me which VR headset was the most advanced, and I had to think for a bit. I actually think Quest 2 is the most advanced headset available, despite it also being nearly the cheapest. Sure other PCVR headsets might have wider FOV or higher resolution, but geez the Quest 2 has functionality that no other headset even comes close to. Quest 2 has robust stand-alone gaming, although with dramatically lower graphics & performance, but geez the Index can't do that at all. And the fact that Quest 2 can run full-fat PCVR wirelessly... heck that's a good argument that Quest 2 is better at PCVR than even PCVR headsets.

I think a Quest 3, with wider fov and a more powerful SoC, has the potential to absolutely dominate VR gaming. But as I said above, there are other conceivable paths that PCVR could take to be more competitive.
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Old Nov 19, 2021, 01:10 PM   #143
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Apple could probably make a monster VR-headset with their m1 chips.
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Old Nov 19, 2021, 01:59 PM   #144
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Apple could probably make a monster VR-headset with their m1 chips.
Yes. But I'd say don't count Qualcomm out. They've got some stuff in the pipeline that I think will be surprisingly competitive to apple.

And Facebook is currently light-years ahead of apple in terms of an actual VR product. Quest 2 has solved a bunch of very difficult technical challenges, even for a company like Apple. Of course, apple also has 20 million customers who are ready to buy anything shiny that has an apple logo on it, even if it's not good (like the original apple watch)... so that's a problem for facebook. Facebook really needs to get 30-40 million Quests sold before Apple jumps in, if they want to avoid Apple eating their lunch on day-1.
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Old Nov 19, 2021, 03:17 PM   #145
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To me, the difference between PCVR and Standalone VR is like the difference between PC gaming and console gaming. PCVR will always have better quality, will require higher resources, and in return require more money for that quality. Standalone will be cheaper, require less computational power, and have lower quality.

In the end, it all depends on what the user can afford and what they are happy with. I'd love for someone to release a standalone VR headset that looks as nice as my Vive 2 Pro. Chances are, that is a LONG way off.

Neither approach is wrong though. It's all what the end user is willing to pay for the quality that they are comfortable with.
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Old Nov 19, 2021, 03:28 PM   #146
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To me, the difference between PCVR and Standalone VR is like the difference between PC gaming and console gaming. PCVR will always have better quality, will require higher resources, and in return require more money for that quality. Standalone will be cheaper, require less computational power, and have lower quality.

In the end, it all depends on what the user can afford and what they are happy with. I'd love for someone to release a standalone VR headset that looks as nice as my Vive 2 Pro. Chances are, that is a LONG way off.

Neither approach is wrong though. It's all what the end user is willing to pay for the quality that they are comfortable with.
I think the difference though, is that PCVR is alot of trouble ON TOP OF the extra trouble that PC gaming already is. Until thats fixed, PCVR will always be a niche platform.
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Old Nov 19, 2021, 03:32 PM   #147
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I think the difference though, is that PCVR is alot of trouble ON TOP OF the extra trouble that PC gaming already is. Until thats fixed, PCVR will always be a niche platform.
I mean, it used to be like 4 years ago when I got the original HTC Vive.

It's a lot easier these days. At least it is for me. I'm using a steamVR setup. Sure you have to have the lighthouses put up in a room and do a 'room setup'. After that it's cake. It's basically just a plug and play device after the initial setup.
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Old Nov 19, 2021, 06:34 PM   #148
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I mean, it used to be like 4 years ago when I got the original HTC Vive.

It's a lot easier these days. At least it is for me. I'm using a steamVR setup. Sure you have to have the lighthouses put up in a room and do a 'room setup'. After that it's cake. It's basically just a plug and play device after the initial setup.
Yes, but beyond that you still have to fiddle with alot of games individually to get them to work right in VR... and then many games still don't really work right. The two I mentioned above, for example: MS Flight Simulator and Project Cars 3.
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Old Nov 29, 2021, 04:34 PM   #149
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Some articles are mentioning that Quest 2 is the top selling gaming product on the Amazon sales list, throughout the black friday sales week.

Makes sense, as xbox and playstation are consistently sold out, while Quest is readily available.

I had suspected that when the 128gb model launched, that Facebook was intending to dramatically increase production volume for the holiday season, and this appears to be true. Remember last christmas Quest2 was sold out everywhere. Good for them, for makin' it happen during the chip shortage.

I wonder if we'll get another sales estimate after the holiday season. Since we heard that Quest2 was up to 10 million units before the holiday season, and they're clearly selling very fast now, I wonder how many units they'll sell by the end of the year. I imagine they're going to sell at least a few million during this time.
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Old Nov 30, 2021, 11:01 AM   #150
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Rumors (again) that Valve has cancelled it's upcoming VR projects (Deckard). HL:Alyx failed to bolster PCVR as valve had hoped, and with the success of the Quest there's virtually no studio targeting PCVR anymore.

https://www.kitguru.net/gaming/musta...he-steam-deck/

Quest is an incredibly difficult product to compete with, as it is vastly superior to any other option in price, ease-of-use, features, and game library. The fact that it's nearly the only headset that plays PCVR games wirelessly is a strong argument that Quest is superior even for PCVR. Areas that PCVR maintains superiority (wide fov, higher resolution, higher framerate) won't justify the much higher prices for most consumers.

PCVR still has a near-monopoly on sim-style games (racing, flight, etc), but now that Quest has such strong dev support, it's only a matter of time before it gets a "good-enough" racing sim and flight sim, which will quickly become killer apps for a good portion of the gaming community. PCVR enthusiasts will argue that PC still has better graphics, but it won't matter.

Also, any upcoming PCVR headsets will eventually have to compete against the Quest 3, I expect will likely be announced in late 2022, and will be vastly more powerful than Quest2. Quest looks to be an unstoppable juggernaut, and we'll have to wait and see if any competitor (apple) can compete in this space.

So yeah, it looks more and more like PCVR is likely dead. I had been expecting more games to target Quest while still releasing higher-graphics PC versions (keeping PCVR at least at parity), but actually that doesn't seem to be happening much.
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