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Other Graphics Cards and 3D Technologies Discussion forum for any graphics hardware not provided by AMD/ATI. Also place to discuss 3D technologies such as 3D Stereo, PhysX and other interesting developments/rumours in the 3D industry.

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Old Feb 17, 2021, 11:05 AM   #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demo View Post
Haha touché, yeh at first I didn't mind but now I skip them. I have no idea what's going on now, I just deliver them packages..
I can't tell if you're serious or not.
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Old Feb 17, 2021, 03:35 PM   #632
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So my iiyama G-Master Red Eagle 34" 3466WQSU 3440x1440 arrived this morning. Just got it installed and tried a few benchmarks. I ran the last Tomb Raider and it offered me DLSS for the first time so I enabled it and ran the benchmark.

This is only my opinion but I preferred it with no DLSS it just looked better to my old and knackered eyes with reading glasses on. I'm just using out of the box settings so might tweak it later and try again. I also get the DLSS option in COD:CW but I've not tried it yet. Very happy with the monitor TBH.
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Old Feb 17, 2021, 04:12 PM   #633
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That title is utilizing Dlss 1.0 and was sort of a mixed bag from a quality perspective. The key for most of the positive fanfare on quality and flexibility is with titles using Dlss 2.0 and 2.1.
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Old Feb 17, 2021, 04:46 PM   #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SIrPauly View Post
That title is utilizing Dlss 1.0 and was sort of a mixed bag from a quality perspective. The key for most of the positive fanfare on quality and flexibility is with titles using Dlss 2.0 and 2.1.
Fair enough I'll try COD:MW at some stage with DLSS.
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Old Feb 18, 2021, 09:27 AM   #635
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Nioh 2 got DLSS support in the latest patch, which is pretty odd considering that the vanilla game has no AA support.

So I guess this might be one of those games that looks better with DLSS enabled since that is the only way to get proper AA.

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Old Feb 18, 2021, 09:58 AM   #636
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Originally Posted by Mangler View Post
Nioh 2 got DLSS support in the latest patch, which is pretty odd considering that the vanilla game has no AA support.

So I guess this might be one of those games that looks better with DLSS enabled since that is the only way to get proper AA.
Right.
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Old Feb 18, 2021, 06:05 PM   #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordHawkwind View Post
This is only my opinion but I preferred it with no DLSS
DLSS 1 is very poor quality. Look for titles with DLSS 2.0 or newer.
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Old Apr 1, 2021, 05:53 PM   #638
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Well I just bought my first DLSS/Ray Traced game.

Soon I will see what the fuss is about.

The game is Control Ultimate Edition.
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Old Apr 1, 2021, 07:15 PM   #639
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Originally Posted by NIGELG View Post
Well I just bought my first DLSS/Ray Traced game.

Soon I will see what the fuss is about.

The game is Control Ultimate Edition.
Well good choice there! Enjoy.
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Old Apr 16, 2021, 05:34 AM   #640
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Originally Posted by acroig View Post
That's why I stuck with 1440p and got the G7. Even though nunz thinks I'm a peasant.
I have 22 1080p monitor and Samsung 43" 4K hooked up to PC, and similar bracket 8 year old or sth Samsung 40" 1080p hooked to PS4 Pro, and I did some comparisons of both TVs, peasant eye test at below 2m distance. Ofc 1080p with DSRx4 no smoothness and at least FXAA/ SMAA.

Games with MSAA enhanced by TRSS like DCS, Total Wars, Assetto Corsa, Dirt Rally etc etc generally look better on 4k, with exceptions like PCars 2 for example.

Games with FXAA/ SMAA only like Destiny 2, look much better on 1080p with DSRx4. It's sth like 2560 detail/ sharpness wise but stabilised and brought together by SSAA. On 4k it's just high res but dirty, not to the same extent with every game, but looks acceptable at best and looses the wow factor the supersampled image has.

The consequence of the above is, on 1080p I can stick with FXAA/ SMAA, but on 4k I have to go TAA, which actually looks like lowering res. So yeah. Ofc there are better and worse implementations, but the bad are really awful, and the good are still bad enough that I'd rather use sth else.

Sharpened TAA, that's like going back towards FXAA territory.

End result, half my games I play on the 1080p monitor with DSR, despite the fact that I much prefer the TV from the couch and less eye strain, spine problems etc.

Also, even just 1080p with 4xMSAA enhanced by TRSS mostly still looks great. People who claim it's a peasant res probably switch to 1080p on their 4k screens without integer scaling, and think that's what 1080p looks like heh. Or last thing they've seen was 1080p with TAA, which looks like 640x480.

So yes, good call, there's more to IQ than res, there are diminishing returns to it atm (games ofc not videos of RL), gfx power isn't there yet (sensible heh) and the problem of deferred rendering and antialiasing is still unsolved, leading to costly solutions.

All to my peasant eye only though.
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Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.

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Old Apr 16, 2021, 08:19 AM   #641
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So 1080p with it's fixed number of 1920 x 1080 pixels AND FXAA / SMAA looks better than 3840 x 2160. Okay.....

Seems what you're really comparing is supersampling effect of DSR against native FXAA/SMAA. This just cleans up the image but you're still pixel limited/. You could do the same (at a lesser extent) at 4k as well.

Having both a gaming PC in the office and living room I'd always play on my 65" 4k tv rather than my 27 1440p office pc. Except for competitive games like Watch Dogs 2 (an FXAA/MSAA/SMAA only game) which I do in the office. WD2 looks so much better on my 4k TV but I live with 1440p on the other computer to maintain that competitive advantage. No amount of DSR would make WD2 look better than it's 4k counterpart, and jaggies are far more noticeable regardless of AA method just because my eyes are a foot or two away from the screen (so I can see and kill those little moving pixels that are players in the distance without having to use my scope )
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Old Apr 16, 2021, 09:45 PM   #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
So 1080p with it's fixed number of 1920 x 1080 pixels AND FXAA / SMAA looks better than 3840 x 2160. Okay.....

Seems what you're really comparing is supersampling effect of DSR against native FXAA/SMAA. This just cleans up the image but you're still pixel limited/. You could do the same (at a lesser extent) at 4k as well.

Having both a gaming PC in the office and living room I'd always play on my 65" 4k tv rather than my 27 1440p office pc. Except for competitive games like Watch Dogs 2 (an FXAA/MSAA/SMAA only game) which I do in the office. WD2 looks so much better on my 4k TV but I live with 1440p on the other computer to maintain that competitive advantage. No amount of DSR would make WD2 look better than it's 4k counterpart, and jaggies are far more noticeable regardless of AA method just because my eyes are a foot or two away from the screen (so I can see and kill those little moving pixels that are players in the distance without having to use my scope )
I did some playing around back in the day and found that both games I tried , the division and AC Unity, both actually looked better on a 4K tv with screen mirroring of a 1080p monitor at 4x DSR than native 4K on the same tv.

I do think the upscaler in the tv played a role in that though.
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Old Apr 17, 2021, 08:37 AM   #643
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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
So 1080p with it's fixed number of 1920 x 1080 pixels AND FXAA / SMAA looks better than 3840 x 2160. Okay.....
What? Where did I write this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziklitschli
Ofc 1080p with DSRx4 no smoothness and at least FXAA/ SMAA.
That's planets away and a world of difference in another universe.

Now, for games with not much specular and shadow aliasing and bad FXAA, 1080p MSAA x8 + TRSS vs 4k FXAA I might go for the former.

Did you go for 1600x1200 no AA instead of 1024x768 with 4x AA back in the day? I sure didn't and aliasing was less visible on CRTs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed
Seems what you're really comparing is supersampling effect of DSR against native FXAA/SMAA.
Yes in practice 1080p 2x2SS + FXAA vs 4k FXAA. Like I said, it looks like stable 2560 vs dirty 4k and stabilty trumps res for me.

There's no res in the world anyway that will fix sth like Dark Souls 3 textures anyway heh. It's only more painful at 4k, hopefuly current gen games are made more with 4k in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed
This just cleans up the image but you're still pixel limited/. You could do the same (at a lesser extent) at 4k as well.
Ofc you are pixel limited. but less detail is culled when you supersample. It's not that much a problem at a right distance from the screen.

Your screens also aproach big for pixel pitch, especialy for sitting close. I won't go above 24" with 2560 and 43" with 4k. For me the key to increasing resolutions is the low pixel pitch, not big yeah screen. Ofc for 8k I'll go up an little like to 46" or maybe 50", but that's it.

And yes I DSR at 4k wherever possible, Dark Souls 2, Dawn of War 2 lately for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed
No amount of DSR would make WD2 look better than it's 4k counterpart
2560 x4 DSR will handily beat 4k with FXAA every time, assuming you're not doing sth ridiculous like 24" 4k vs 27" 2560 heh.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.

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Old May 25, 2021, 11:34 AM   #644
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I spent some time with PS5 on 4k TV, and while there's a discussion up here to be had on PC, there's really no contest on console. I mean, I installed quite a few PS4 Pro upgraded titles on PS5, because of noise, framerate etc etc. PS4 I used to play all those on 1080p with supersampling, and was really unimpressed checking them on PS5. Now, I wasn't even trying to compare or prove sth, in fact I was quite excited to play console on 4k TV, they often use quite a few good tricks (that I'd all turn off in a second on PC btw heh) to make games punch a bit above their weight on TVs.

It all really culminated with latest God of War, it was weird because I was like, this looks kind of, ok? Really good in parts but overall, signifiantly worse than what I'd expect from a flagship title, I mean some multiplatform games had like 10x effect on me on the Pro. Then I decided to install on PS4 Pro and yes, that moment I could see what all the talk was about. So much better, a stunner on 1080p supersampled, shame it challenges a vacuum cleaner with noise.

Ofc, it has to be said that none of the titles are 4k, and I just can see that disgusting checkerboard thing etc. But, none or very little on PS5 will be 4k either. Even Demon's Souls is 4k 30 or 2560 60, this is not 4k 60fps console, and people demand 60 fps. So all we are going to see are dynamic scurvying, checkerblurring, variable rate ruining etc, I mean Returnal is already doubly scaled from 1080p to 4k, scaler and then checkerboard or vice versa. It seems that supersampling greatly hides those, contrary to native 4k, and I'm at the point where I'm giving it some time, but will hook it up to 1080p in the end.

Another thing I noticed, and an old story, in the PS2 era it was usually better to play console ports in lower res like 640 than 1024+, all the latter did was accentuate how blocky the games were. I still see that in some current games, like a soft lighting at 1080p compressed to sharp ray on 4k, geometry not quite there for 4k etc. Btw anyone thinking I'm making stuff up, I had a high up graphic dev confirm it's a thing, you played a few games of his probably heh, he even had a name for it that I forgot. It was most obvious in that Halo MCC Reach port, where at 4k ambient occlussion and other effects disappeared almost completly and they had to fix it.

So yeah I think 4k a bit overrated heh, especialy on console. I haven't even touched on how you have to sit closer to really appreciate it, which brings another problem or 2 heh. Anyway, on topic, there's DLSS 2.1 in that Metro Exodus RT only edition, hooray, woohooo! Paradoxicaly might help hiding that quite obvious noise, not sure though.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old May 25, 2021, 11:38 AM   #645
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Originally Posted by Ziklitschli View Post
I spent some time with PS5 on 4k TV, and while there's a discussion up here to be had on PC, there's really no contest on console.....
I'll be deleting this post as it does not belong here in my opinion. You can start a thread in console gaming to discuss?

What you think?
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Old May 25, 2021, 12:11 PM   #646
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I just followed my earlier post here. Maybe leave it, and I'll just shut up? Your call obviously and I don't mind.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old May 25, 2021, 12:38 PM   #647
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I just followed my earlier post here. Maybe leave it, and I'll just shut up? Your call obviously and I don't mind.
No, just don't want the thread derailed with console talk. I'll lave what you posted but if you want to add to that please open a thread on the console forum.

Thanks.
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Old May 25, 2021, 12:47 PM   #648
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Originally Posted by Ziklitschli View Post
So yeah I think 4k a bit overrated heh, especialy on console. I haven't even touched on how you have to sit closer to really appreciate it, which brings another problem or 2 heh. Anyway, on topic, there's DLSS 2.1 in that Metro Exodus RT only edition, hooray, woohooo! Paradoxicaly might help hiding that quite obvious noise, not sure though.
Well 4k on consoles are very rarely real 4k, you get the hacks you experienced.

But if you think 4k is overrated on PC then you either have a poor display or poor gaming computer or both.

I never understand why some people would want to run DSR in a lower resolution, when no matter how you spin it, 3840x2160 is still 3840x2160 pixels and you can't fit that amount of pixel detail in 1440p or 1080p, super sampling or not. Maybe to fix aliasing, but picture clarity and detail always wins at higher native resolution.
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Old May 25, 2021, 06:27 PM   #649
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Well 4k on consoles are very rarely real 4k, you get the hacks you experienced.

But if you think 4k is overrated on PC then you either have a poor display or poor gaming computer or both.

I never understand why some people would want to run DSR in a lower resolution, when no matter how you spin it, 3840x2160 is still 3840x2160 pixels and you can't fit that amount of pixel detail in 1440p or 1080p, super sampling or not. Maybe to fix aliasing, but picture clarity and detail always wins at higher native resolution.

And I never really understood all the wide eyed rections to 4k, like some have never seen a high res before. Doubling resolution was sth I did on CRTs like 20 years ago already, upgrade and bang game that had to be played in 800x600 was 1600x1200 suddenly, not to mention same screen size actually instead going 1.5 times larger or sth. Everyone who tinkered with PCs knows how it looks, it's not a revolution just because someone found a fancy abbreviation for it (that doesn't even make sense btw). And yes res is overrated in general, it's only one of many components of IQ, just in the spotlight now because of how screens work and marketing. You need assets for it, it sometimes worsens effects, distorts the intended look. Like I said before, back then I'd never consider going 1600x1200 no AA over sth like 1024x768 x4 AA, completly unthinkable, and FXAA is not far from no AA, helping in one place but aggrevating in another.

Computer is fine, thank you, and I think I mentioned that some games with MSAA look better than 1080p supersampled. If I wasn't spoiled by system wide supersampling for years now, I'd have watery eyes at some of the pictures I manage to get on the 4k TV. With the current antialiasing situation though, it's a draw at best between those two, and given how at native 4k, I have to go for really costly solutions on top of it, I'd say it's a bit too early for 4k (nVidia seems to agree btw, see DLSS heh) if you really are into quality. That's because, for games with fxaa only that don't respond well to it (some do actually), supersampling is the only option, and even for MSAA you need insane resources that make it hardly viable for newest titles. Not to mention, just enough to look at all the bullshots, nothing brings the picture together like supersampling, plus deals with the CGI look a bit, kind of like film grain but not disgusting - just native looks good but still, IDK, fragmented? And then supersampled is stable but sharper and more detailed the same time, a miracle of sorts heh.

That said, just few days ago I played some Dead Space, 8k to 4k DSR with ambient occlusion and MSAA, and while there are some casualties to high res, it is sth else. Funny I remember playing it around the time I registered here, played it sub HD with just MSAA, there's been some progress heh. Or Dark Souls 2, supersampled from 8k with SGSSAA on top, 30fps but hey, try to crawl now, edge. So, it's not that I hate the TV or sth heh, quite the contrary.
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Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

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In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.

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Old May 25, 2021, 06:29 PM   #650
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No, just don't want the thread derailed with console talk. I'll lave what you posted but if you want to add to that please open a thread on the console forum.

Thanks.
Thanks, sorry for off topic, I'm insane and all over the place. It made sense in my head heh.
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Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old May 25, 2021, 08:17 PM   #651
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Thanks, sorry for off topic, I'm insane and all over the place. It made sense in my head heh.
No worries.
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Old May 26, 2021, 10:15 PM   #652
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Not to mention there is a difference between rendering resolution and display resolution. You 1000% see an improvement rendering at a higher resolution and displaying as a lower one. While the lower resolution render, might not resolve fine details, it doesn't mean that lower display resolution isn't capable of displaying that fine detail.

Look no further that the fine details of fences, power lines etc etc etc etc. Perfectly resolvable at a lower display resolution, but it may require a higher render resolution to resolve the detail so it can be displayed.
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Old May 27, 2021, 05:43 AM   #653
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Yes, it's rather culling that limits detail at 1080p, not physical number of pixels, it's not really that much of a thing atm. Tried to explain but I guess nothing below x64 SS is worth the attention heh.

Feels weird in general to have to sell supersampling on a tech forum btw.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old May 27, 2021, 04:26 PM   #654
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I'm with ya with a quality super sampling but since many games are using deferred rendering now makes it pretty difficult. Dlss may not be an ideal feature but does a very respectable job, even with the performance setting and definitely allows a gamer to enjoy a resolution increase or the ability to enjoy raytracing features on desktop and mobile platforms.
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Old May 28, 2021, 06:21 AM   #655
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It's an impressive tech, a best reconstruction on the market by far. I don't object that. The only thing I object are quotes like these

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Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
Yet you have situations where DLSS 2.0 will give an overall better image quality than native (with or without AA) regardless of performance.
which I can't really read as anything other that, if you turned off TAA on "native" side, and somehow removed the AA component from DLSS, the reconstruction component of DLSS 1080p to 4k would produce a better image quality than native 4k. Putting the unhealthy optimism aside, how does one even come to such conclusion, when everyone tests against TAA, and on DLSS part the AA component is designed to hide the reconstruction artifacts etc.

I also don't like it as a flagship feature (which you disagreed on afair), but it's not because I don't respect is an an engineering feat, it's just because I don't like reconstruction being promoted left and right. I get instantly apocalyptic, seeing a future where it or sth similar is incorporated into a render by default, because hey everyone plays with it on anyway. TAA and Chromatic Abberation are already forced in few games, those devs know what's best for us don't they. I almost got a heart attack already when I couldn't turn off Dynamic Resolution in Battlefront 2, was only a bug but we're not getting younger you know.

Have to admit there is an upside though. The race for resolution (and here and now gfx budgets) really hurts the rest of the graphics in games, and DLSS enables devs to go heavier on effects etc.

Btw Exposed, I'm not picking a fight here, it's just that I find your opinions on DLSS really quotable heh
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.
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Old May 28, 2021, 08:09 AM   #656
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Btw Exposed, I'm not picking a fight here, it's just that I find your opinions on DLSS really quotable heh
He's a very quotable guy.....
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Old May 28, 2021, 08:24 AM   #657
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Originally Posted by Ziklitschli View Post
It's an impressive tech, a best reconstruction on the market by far. I don't object that. The only thing I object are quotes like these



which I can't really read as anything other that, if you turned off TAA on "native" side, and somehow removed the AA component from DLSS, the reconstruction component of DLSS 1080p to 4k would produce a better image quality than native 4k. Putting the unhealthy optimism aside, how does one even come to such conclusion, when everyone tests against TAA, and on DLSS part the AA component is designed to hide the reconstruction artifacts etc.

I also don't like it as a flagship feature (which you disagreed on afair), but it's not because I don't respect is an an engineering feat, it's just because I don't like reconstruction being promoted left and right. I get instantly apocalyptic, seeing a future where it or sth similar is incorporated into a render by default, because hey everyone plays with it on anyway. TAA and Chromatic Abberation are already forced in few games, those devs know what's best for us don't they. I almost got a heart attack already when I couldn't turn off Dynamic Resolution in Battlefront 2, was only a bug but we're not getting younger you know.

Have to admit there is an upside though. The race for resolution (and here and now gfx budgets) really hurts the rest of the graphics in games, and DLSS enables devs to go heavier on effects etc.

Btw Exposed, I'm not picking a fight here, it's just that I find your opinions on DLSS really quotable heh
You're thinking all DLSS does is basic supersampling. If it was that simple, why have an AI component. You're not doing any real time computationally intensive super sampling or DSR which is why 1080p and 1440p DSR or upscaling will always look and perform inferior to DLSS 2.0 4k. There's been enough technical analysis from various outlets to confirm this, not to mention the "eyeball" test where you just play. It's not my opinion, most everyone here who've used DLSS 2.0 in action see it for themselves.

Ignore DLSS and focus on AI image super resolution in other fields. Taking a low resolution photo or image and using AI to upscale the image to a much higher resolution you cannot simply do with a software scalar. And sophisticated enough to remove upscaling artifacts and recreating fine detail. There's some mind blowing examples of this if you just do a google search.

Nvidia is bringing this tech to PC gaming. Not quite perfect but 4k DLSS 2.0 is superior to any 1080p or 1440p DSR solution. The reason why 4k DLSS Performance (1080p input) looks so good because it still has 2160p worth of pixels to work with and fill in the data from native 4k (actually 64k) sources used from the training process. This is not something 1080p super sampling or DSR can come remotely close to equaling. DLSS is not TAA but does use a temporal component. A non AA'd image is going to look fugly with razor sharp edges and shimmering while moving that will cut your eyeballs out, DLSS eliminates these artifacting to give you essentially the best form of AA available on PC today with the benefits of AI super resolution. So DLSS, despite using 1440p/1080p as an input source, is going to give you an image that will in most cases look just as good as native 4k, and because of how it works can give a better than native image as well.

This horse has long been dead btw. We've all seen the major benefits and minor drawbacks of DLSS (now on DLSS 2.1) and most tech sites agree this is the way of the future as games get more demanding and hardware will always be a limit, so I don't really understand your commitment here. Do you have some screenshots you want to analyze? If so let's see them.

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Old May 28, 2021, 08:53 AM   #658
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This horse has long been dead btw.
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Old May 28, 2021, 10:14 AM   #659
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You're thinking all DLSS does is basic supersampling.
No I don't. And it's not supersampling at all, it's reconstructing using data from supersampled images, not even close to the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
You're not doing any real time computationally intensive super sampling or DSR which is why 1080p and 1440p DSR or upscaling will always look and perform inferior to DLSS 2.0 4k
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
Not quite perfect but 4k DLSS 2.0 is superior to any 1080p or 1440p DSR solution.
DLSS not doing computationaly intesive ss is why it will look superior?

"1440p DSR or upscaling" will look inferior? DSR is downscaling, DLSS is upscaling actually.

Upscaler from 1080p (DLSS) will always look superior than supersample from 5120x2880 (2560 DSR)?

DSR or supersampling? It's the same thing, unless you meant sparse grid or rotated grid, (which will blow DLSS out of the water just as well). But you really didn't heh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
The reason why 4k DLSS Performance (1080p input) looks so good because it still has 2160p worth of pixels to work with and fill in the data from native 4k (actually 64k) sources used from the training process.
1080p DSR also has "2160p of pixels" to work with. Or you mean external. What's with the pixels anyway again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
This is not something 1080p super sampling or DSR can come remotely close to equaling.
Again, same thing. And I object your claim that DLSS is going to provide better IQ than native, why do you mix DSR in? Different discussion, that was 4k native vs 1080p DSR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
DLSS is not TAA but does use a temporal component. A non AA'd image is going to look fugly with razor sharp edges and shimmering while moving that will cut your eyeballs out, DLSS eliminates these artifacting to give you essentially the best form of AA available on PC today with the benefits of AI super resolution.
You still don't understand. I don't object "DLSS 4k looks better than 4k native + TAA in title X". But you throw general claims like "DLSS will give better IQ, regardless of AA", which means, if I applied just as good AA as DLSS one to the native picture, DLSS will still beat it on detail etc. Or that, without AA at all, the reconstruction component produces better detail than native one.

It doesn't matter at all, in this comparision, that it's going to look "fugly", "cut your eyeballs out", can you understand that? Your mixing real world scenarios into your sweeping statements.

I'll simplify for you though. We take 16k 22 inch monitor, is 16k DLSS (so reconstructed from 8k) producing a better detail than 16k native? No cutting eyeballs anymore, mind you.

Best form of AA on the market, better than sgssaa then?

Thank you for explaining how AA works though, and that no AA will shimmer in motion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
So DLSS, despite using 1440p/1080p as an input source, is going to give you an image that will in most cases look just as good as native 4k, and because of how it works can give a better than native image as well.
That's the crux of it, but we're never climbing over that one, are we heh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
most tech sites agree
Wasn't my impression at all tbh when I read some of it. Rather that you read it with extremly rose colored glasses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exposed View Post
Do you have some screenshots you want to analyze? If so let's see them.
Right after you show me a screenshot where DLSS shows better detail than native without TAA etc, disregarding jaggies for that comparision, to back up your claims.
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Garth Merenghi quotes
Most of you will probably know me already from my extensive canon of chillers including "Afterbirth" in which a mutated placenta attacks Bristol.

Everyone has a special talent. Mine is being able to write, produce direct, act, paint... Other people are good plumbers, that's their gift.

There are rebels and there are innovators. I'm a rebel. I play a rebel brain expert who's in rebelliance against conventional logic, who's in rebelliance against the world order. It's about rebelliance. And if that's not being an innovator, I don't know what is.

In times of conflict, when you're up against an agressor, be he human, be he inhuman, whoe'er he be, often he is both.

Greetings traveller. Who am I? Perhaps you have met me twixt sleep and and wake - in the penumbra of uncertainity you call unconsiousness... you know, my books are essentialy about "what ifs". In "Black Fang" I asked - what if a rat could drive a bus? And what if it and its rat brethren took over and ate Parliment?

A lot of people say "Garth Merenghi? Doesn't he write that horror crap?" Well, you're an idiot, because my books always say something, even if it's simple like "Don't geneticaly engineer crabs to be as big as man". There's always a message or a theme.

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Old May 28, 2021, 11:00 AM   #660
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Ziklitschli, let's play nice. No need to call his claims ridiculous, ok?
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