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Old Dec 23, 2020, 11:41 PM   #211
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KAC
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So it seems that X570 MSI new bios is the one causing the issues for memory clocks to fail. It is a widespread issue and expected to be fixed in next bios.

FWIW, I am pushing 3733 1:1 w/ 1866 FCLK at 16-19-19-39 1T and some tighter secondary timings. As I showed yesterday it already allowed me to boost my Timespy score by about a 100+ points. I was looking to break the 18K barrier on my 3080 but it seems it won't be possible unless MSI issues a new bios that actually works.

However, 3733 1:1 seems like nothing to sneeze at either since my PC routinely is pushing 5.1 Gs on multiple cores and stays between 4.85 - 5.1 Gs in gaming at only 1.225 volts at a cool ~70 C max temps.
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Old Dec 24, 2020, 01:03 AM   #212
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Get a Gigabyte B550 Aorus Pro mainboard if you are obssesed with memory ocing.
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Old Dec 24, 2020, 03:20 AM   #213
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What kind of recommendation is that? I am on X570 and you are recommending B550?
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Old Dec 24, 2020, 04:01 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAC View Post
What kind of recommendation is that? I am on X570 and you are recommending B550?


The first wave of x570 boards date a couple of years ago.They were built on older memory topology.The B550 boards because they were manufactured later built got newer implementations of memory topology and other differences.There are X570 expensive boards that got refresh with newer memory topology implementations as b550'es.At minute 1.53 he presents the Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master and the new revision differences.A very expensive boards.You may check if your specific boards got a new hardware revision recently.

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Old Dec 24, 2020, 06:19 AM   #215
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What voltage are you using?

2T vs 1T isn't as important anymore. I've ran the benches of my settings comparing 1T to 2T and I found more performance tightening secondary and tertiary timings over moving to 1T. Running 1T used to be a big thing with DDR3 but imo it's faded away in importance.

16-16-16-36 2T is the best of that bunch.
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Old Dec 24, 2020, 10:31 AM   #216
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I think I am going to skip the memory shenanigans. It is just too much work for don’t know what gaming gains.

On another note, I was pushing frames in Immortals Penis Rising and game was hitching and also crashed once. I did not understand what the crash was for but it might have been CPU related. I bumped volts back to 1.25 volts and since then all is good. Boosted my gaming temps from 70 to 73 C.

Will continue testing for stability.
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Old Dec 24, 2020, 05:06 PM   #217
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Thats why I got 2x16gb pc3600 14-15-15-35 gskill. No fussing with it and it's pretty quick out of the box.
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Old Dec 24, 2020, 09:01 PM   #218
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Honestly, if you want good memory overclocking results it's better to start out with well binned b-die. It's worth just spending the extra money up front. It doesn't have to be an uber kit: 3200 CL14-14-14 or 3600 CL16-16-16 will be fine. The DRAM Calculator timings usually are pretty accurate for well binned b-die, which saves a lot of time not having to experiment with different settings.

Trying to do anything with Hynix or Micron in my experience is a pain in the ass. There is too much variance stick to stick, and you end up wasting a lot of time trying to find settings that work. Then, even if you succeed in tweaking you're giving up 10% performance because TRFC is stuck running at 500 vs 270 on b-die, and some of the other timings also won't run as tight. You can certainly get more performance out of cheaper sticks, but it's not worth the effort unless you absolutely can't afford to buy something better.

I don't have firsthand experience with poorly binned b-die, but I've heard it isn't that great either, not necessarily any better than Hynix.

The bottom line is if you're going to spend as much time as can be required to dial in a memory overclock, it's better if you start out polishing a gem, rather than trying to polish a turd.

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Originally Posted by Nunz View Post
What voltage are you using?

2T vs 1T isn't as important anymore. I've ran the benches of my settings comparing 1T to 2T and I found more performance tightening secondary and tertiary timings over moving to 1T. Running 1T used to be a big thing with DDR3 but imo it's faded away in importance.

16-16-16-36 2T is the best of that bunch.
With Ryzen there's a setting called Gear Down Mode, which is sort of a halfway point between 1T and 2T. So, there's not usually a need to drop down to 2T vs simply running 1T with GDM enabled.
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Old Dec 24, 2020, 10:37 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Thats why I got 2x16gb pc3600 14-15-15-35 gskill. No fussing with it and it's pretty quick out of the box.
Link to the kit? I can only see 16 GB kits or 32 GB w/ 4 sticks.
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Old Dec 25, 2020, 12:39 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagorak View Post
Honestly, if you want good memory overclocking results it's better to start out with well binned b-die. It's worth just spending the extra money up front. It doesn't have to be an uber kit: 3200 CL14-14-14 or 3600 CL16-16-16 will be fine. The DRAM Calculator timings usually are pretty accurate for well binned b-die, which saves a lot of time not having to experiment with different settings.

Trying to do anything with Hynix or Micron in my experience is a pain in the ass. There is too much variance stick to stick, and you end up wasting a lot of time trying to find settings that work. Then, even if you succeed in tweaking you're giving up 10% performance because TRFC is stuck running at 500 vs 270 on b-die, and some of the other timings also won't run as tight. You can certainly get more performance out of cheaper sticks, but it's not worth the effort unless you absolutely can't afford to buy something better.



I don't have firsthand experience with poorly binned b-die, but I've heard it isn't that great either, not necessarily any better than Hynix.

The bottom line is if you're going to spend as much time as can be required to dial in a memory overclock, it's better if you start out polishing a gem, rather than trying to polish a turd.



With Ryzen there's a setting called Gear Down Mode, which is sort of a halfway point between 1T and 2T. So, there's not usually a need to drop down to 2T vs simply running 1T with GDM enabled.
After looking at this video i got a cheap b-die Patriot Viper Steel 4000mhz cl19.I could tune it with DRAM Calculator.
I could get 3200mhz cl14-14-14 on my Ryzen 1 without paying for premium FlareX.

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Old Dec 25, 2020, 07:53 AM   #221
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Link to the kit? I can only see 16 GB kits or 32 GB w/ 4 sticks.
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-...quicklink=true
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Old Dec 25, 2020, 11:24 AM   #222
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Outta stock and no RGB. That's a tough sell.
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Old Dec 25, 2020, 11:53 AM   #223
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4x8GB Patriot ViperSteel 4400C19 overclocked to 3800 CL14 on MSI X570 Godlike with Ryzen 9 3950X





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Old Dec 25, 2020, 05:31 PM   #224
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Most of the time in games you're GPU limited anyway. You just need your CPU to be fast enough. So, you probably should just not worry about it and play games. That's the major thing I learned from spending many dozens of hours screwing with memory.
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Old Dec 27, 2020, 04:11 AM   #225
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So it seems like I need to boost some secondary voltages for IF to hit 2 Gs.
Going to give it a shot.
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Old Dec 28, 2020, 09:32 AM   #226
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So I tried everything. More volts to SOC and IOD, tighter timings, curve optimizer and lower voltages. The results are in.

Nothing ****ing works.

More volts don’t help higher IF or memory speed with 1:1.
Curve optimizer with only negative 10 offset and auto or AMD overclocking volts leads to instability after 4-5 hours.
None of the tighter timings worked except the secondary timings that I tightened earlier which net me 100+ points in Timespy and not anything else.

So I am back to where I left off. Kept PBO on, override with 200 MHz to get above 5 Gs, 1.25 volts and memory at 16-19-19-19-39 at 3733/1867 with some secondary timings tightened up.

Of course this completely messes up any Cinebench runs and anyways Port Royal is lower than what I had with my 8086K so yeah that is screwed up as well.

However, it keeps temps low to about 71-73 C full load and clocks keep bouncing around like a monkey on crack between 4.65 - 5.1 Gs. Usually I see in games it is pushing 5 Gs on top CCX0 cores and 4.8+ on CCX1 cores.

I did manage to do a Cinebench run to get about 8300 with full volts (comp was only boosting to 4.2 Gs - seems like known issue with current PBO version). I also finally saw a 636 SC score. However, that leads to a 83C operating temperature because AMD can’t code their PBO algorithm even if their life depended on it.

I heard PBO was also a shite and PBO 2 is no better in that department. I know my chip can easily run 4.8 GHz all core at 1.25 volts because I see it in gaming for extended hours but the bios/PBO algorithm seems extremely unnecessary to take control over all option. I tried manual overclock and can’t seem to go over 4.75 GHz all core where of course I lose performance in games and it becomes same or slower than my 8086K.

Well as the things are I am quite stuck with this shitshow of a platform. When summer will come I will have no option but to see whatever Intel has, take a massive loss on this because selling AMD locally would be a bitch and just live with my decision to try AMD. Maybe in next 10 years I give it another shot but AMD products are absolutely shite and not for me. Honestly for gaming a 10900K would have been just as good and would actually run 5.2Gs all day while keeping cool.
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Old Dec 28, 2020, 09:45 AM   #227
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Quote:
Honestly for gaming a 10900K would have been just as good and would actually run 5.2Gs all day while keeping cool.
Let's be honest here. What does ANY of this have to do with gaming?


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Old Dec 28, 2020, 09:54 AM   #228
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At 1440P it does impact gaming. 10900K and 5000 series trade blows. However, with this setup it will run cooler. Since I game a lot, a cool running PC is important to me in the environment I am in.
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Old Dec 28, 2020, 09:57 AM   #229
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a cool running PC is important to me in the environment I am in.
I can tell that by your desire to push 5.2GHz and change all your hardware to get there.
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Old Dec 28, 2020, 10:19 AM   #230
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A delidded Intel is able to achieve that with the cooling and case I have.
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Old Dec 28, 2020, 10:19 AM   #231
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OC'ing for the thrill of it just to see how far you can push the hardware is cool on its own if its your thing. But I don't think I'd see much point in doing it to get a few more fps for gaming. Your system is already top tier, and probably gets you way above average performance in all games - especially at 1440.

So unless you're OC'ing for fun I wouldn't waste the time and effort. Just find your comfortable 24/7 settings and get to gaming. Honestly the last time I bothered with OC'ing is when my system actually needed the extra performance. Its been years though since I've needed to do that.
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Old Dec 28, 2020, 10:44 AM   #232
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I enjoy it. However, thus far the whole thing has been futile and the increased temps are just bothering me a lot.

I will try a front mount on the rad to see what’s up.
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Old Dec 28, 2020, 11:44 AM   #233
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I enjoy it. However, thus far the whole thing has been futile and the increased temps are just bothering me a lot.

I will try a front mount on the rad to see what’s up.
Until Intel will move out of 14nm i don't see any ocing potential anyway.The 11900k will be already around max frequency just because it needs to beat 5800x by 1% to be king of gaming...2021 is not the year Intel will move out of 14nm.
Also i have a feeling that 11900k will be as hot as your 5900x in load.
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Old Dec 28, 2020, 11:51 AM   #234
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Until Intel will move out of 14nm i don't see any ocing potential anyway.The 11900k will be already around max frequency just because it needs to beat 5800x by 1% to be king of gaming...2021 is not the year Intel will move out of 14nm.
Also i have a feeling that 11900k will be as hot as your 5900x in load.
The 10900K overclocks very well, so I'm sorry but this is wrong. The new OCTVB form of overclocking introduced with the 10900K has really brought some new life to the chip too. Many people are running step settings and running 5.5Ghz in low-thread usage games, and then 5.1-5.2 when all 10cores are utilized.
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Old Dec 28, 2020, 12:12 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunz View Post
The 10900K overclocks very well, so I'm sorry but this is wrong. The new OCTVB form of overclocking introduced with the 10900K has really brought some new life to the chip too. Many people are running step settings and running 5.5Ghz in low-thread usage games, and then 5.1-5.2 when all 10cores are utilized.
Dropping 2 cores it seems that things gone too far.It's a 250watt cpu from the rumors.
Also it may oc very well but what kind of cooling one needs ?
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Old Dec 28, 2020, 01:13 PM   #236
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Who buys a flagship unlocked CPU to just run it at stock? These chips don't require crazy coolers if they're running completely stock settings.

There's so much talk about Intel running hot, but the Ryzen chips run as hot if not hotter while being on a smaller node and no one bats an eye.

Yep, Intel is dropping back down to 8c/16thread, and that's very much because of the 14nm struggles. Regardless of that, the reduction to 8cores could be really, really nice in terms of clock-speed.

It's most certainly not going to be a 250watt CPU out of the box. I just don't see that happening.
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Old Dec 28, 2020, 01:25 PM   #237
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Who buys a flagship unlocked CPU to just run it at stock? These chips don't require crazy coolers if they're running completely stock settings.

There's so much talk about Intel running hot, but the Ryzen chips run as hot if not hotter while being on a smaller node and no one bats an eye.

Yep, Intel is dropping back down to 8c/16thread, and that's very much because of the 14nm struggles. Regardless of that, the reduction to 8cores could be really, really nice in terms of clock-speed.

It's most certainly not going to be a 250watt CPU out of the box. I just don't see that happening.
From this video at 14.09 the 10900k have a bigger power draw than 5900x even oced 4.6 g.And 5900x has 12c.



I want to upgrade to another DDR4 memory platform.I may actually consider also intel for my next upgrade.

KAC:
Clock Tuner For Ryzen CPUs Gets AMD Zen 3 CPU Support in CTR 2.0 Release, Available in January With Hybrid OC Mode, New Features & Several Bug Fixes



https://wccftech.com/clock-tuner-for...ybrid-oc-mode/
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Old Dec 28, 2020, 01:33 PM   #238
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Yeah, it consumes more power; no arguing there. The Ryzen chips still run at high temperatures. I understand it's due to the chiplet design and it's a side-effect of 7nm being such a dense node, but that doesn't change the fact that Ryzen runs hot.

14nm might be old, but the larger die allows more surface area to dissipate that higher wattage/heat.
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Old Dec 28, 2020, 02:28 PM   #239
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Btw, I just spent 1+ hours of playing Cyberjunk 2077. Now I have all possible things enabled but the CPU never boosted beyond 4.7 Gs (with the exception of odd 4.8 here or there). Usually ran at 4625 and at 62 C. This is with the 1.25 volts. I am really pissed off because the CPU can surely boost higher than this. Will see how far it boosts with auto volts.

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Old Dec 28, 2020, 03:05 PM   #240
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Btw, I just spent 1+ hours of playing Cyberjunk 2077. Now I have all possible things enabled but the CPU never boosted beyond 4.7 Gs (with the exception of odd 4.8 here or there). Usually ran at 4625 and at 62 C. This is with the 1.25 volts. I am really pissed off because the CPU can surely boost higher than this. Will see how far it boosts with auto volts.

Please listen to the beggining of this video talking about PBO."he says PBO doesn't go over 200 watts.Even if temps are low it doesn't go over 200 watts"...




OCING 5950 by Derbauer ... maybe you learn something from experts


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