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Old Sep 26, 2012, 11:16 PM   #1
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Lupine
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AMD AMD A10-5800K Preview: Trinity for the Desktop

Caveman-jim gives us a first look of AMD's new Trinity APU.

Get a sneak look at AMD's new desktop platform featuring the Trinity APU in A10 5800K form, with new A85 chipset. Our preview details about why you should be excited about AMD's second generation A-series APU on the desktop, and how they plan to disrupt the Big Blue monster in consumer desktops.

AMD A10-5800K Preview: Trinity for the Desktop
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Old Sep 26, 2012, 11:25 PM   #2
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 10:29 AM   #3
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The quick reviews I've read show no overclocking at all...Any body know a review with OC?
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 10:30 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bittermann View Post
The quick reviews I've read show no overclocking at all...Any body know a review with OC?
These are previews. Expect the full reviews next week.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 12:47 PM   #5
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Excellent preview! Got a few questions though-

on the second page in the "Feature Overview" segment you stated:

Quote:
Trinity brings old and new to the table, with VLIW4 graphics as seen in 2010's AMD Radeon HD 6900 series
And on the first page, third paragraph:

Quote:
The GPU for Llano was derived from the first generation DX11 architecture (Terascale 2 / VLIW5 as seen in the Evergreen series of Radeon HD 5000 products)
Isn't it the other way around? I thought Llano was VLIW4 and Trinity was VLIW5? Because from my recollection the 5800s were VLIW4 and the 6900s were VLIW5. Could be off here though.

Also, on the second page you state:

Quote:
Trinity also gains the first unified northbridge on the die, and PCIe replaces HyperTransport for connecting to I/O devices.
So is HyperTransport being phased out, replaced with PCIe? I'm not too sure how that works, but that may be because I'm thinking of PCIe as an interface for add-in cards instead of a communication bus between components. However PCIe is capable of being both, I think, so I suppose PCIe could replace HyperTransport? Just looking for some more clarification on that.

I see a second time you mention Trinity using VLIW4 instead of VLIW5- wouldn't this be a step backwards in performance? Been a while since I looked into any of this so I may be a country-mile off.

Very excellent write up/preview! I've been anticipating the release of Trinity as my best friend will likely have me build him 3-4 mainstream gaming rigs out of the A10-5800k if price : performance is good enough. Already built one APU-based system for his Dad and it was an amazing platform for being "bottom-of-the-barrel" cheapest APU available at the time. Really interested and looking forward to seeing what the top-end Trinity APU can bring to the table.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 01:34 PM   #6
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Redeemed: VLIW4 is the newer architecture (hd6xxx series).

Also, why are these the previews? These CPU's are already being sold for some time now. I've found a post of someone 14 days ago claiming he had an A8 trinity cpu in a PC sold by Aldi Süd. Similarily their stores in my country had begun selling trinity stuff. Then I checked the wikipedia and it says 1. october as the release date.

Now explain that.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 01:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemed View Post
Isn't it the other way around? I thought Llano was VLIW4 and Trinity was VLIW5? Because from my recollection the 5800s were VLIW4 and the 6900s were VLIW5. Could be off here though.
Your recollection is faulty, I'm afraid. Look here at the HD 5800 launch review - VLIW5, and here at the HD 6900 launch review - VLIW4. Llano is covered here. Trinity is VLIW4, the same architecture as found in the HD 6900 series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemed View Post
So is HyperTransport being phased out, replaced with PCIe? I'm not too sure how that works, but that may be because I'm thinking of PCIe as an interface for add-in cards instead of a communication bus between components. However PCIe is capable of being both, I think, so I suppose PCIe could replace HyperTransport? Just looking for some more clarification on that.
PCIe and HyperTransport have some overlap. You'll see PCIe more and more in connecting chips together, it's a bus, regardless as to if those devices are add in boards or different chips or different parts of the same chip. HT isn't dead, still in use for CPU to CPU communications at least in Opterons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemed View Post
I see a second time you mention Trinity using VLIW4 instead of VLIW5- wouldn't this be a step backwards in performance? Been a while since I looked into any of this so I may be a country-mile off.
And you are indeed a country mile off, because you have VLIW4 and 5 backwards in your thinking.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 01:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpktnst View Post
Also, why are these the previews? These CPU's are already being sold for some time now. I've found a post of someone 14 days ago claiming he had an A8 trinity cpu in a PC sold by Aldi Süd. Similarily their stores in my country had begun selling trinity stuff. Then I checked the wikipedia and it says 1. october as the release date.

Now explain that.
This is the retail channel launch and these are the legal embargo terms. You can buy a HP in North America today with an A10 in it.

The date in Wikipedia might not be correct.
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Old Sep 27, 2012, 02:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpktnst View Post
Redeemed: VLIW4 is the newer architecture (hd6xxx series).

Also, why are these the previews? These CPU's are already being sold for some time now. I've found a post of someone 14 days ago claiming he had an A8 trinity cpu in a PC sold by Aldi Süd. Similarily their stores in my country had begun selling trinity stuff. Then I checked the wikipedia and it says 1. october as the release date.

Now explain that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman-jim View Post
Your recollection is faulty, I'm afraid. Look here at the HD 5800 launch review - VLIW5, and here at the HD 6900 launch review - VLIW4. Llano is covered here. Trinity is VLIW4, the same architecture as found in the HD 6900 series.



PCIe and HyperTransport have some overlap. You'll see PCIe more and more in connecting chips together, it's a bus, regardless as to if those devices are add in boards or different chips or different parts of the same chip. HT isn't dead, still in use for CPU to CPU communications at least in Opterons.



And you are indeed a country mile off, because you have VLIW4 and 5 backwards in your thinking.
Thanks for the clarification CMJ. Like I said it's been a while since I really looked into any of this. Now it also makes more sense why there are less SPs in the GPU- it's using a more efficient architecture, just as there are less SPs in the 6900s than in the 5800s.

Thanks again, boss. Really looking forward to getting some hands-on time with the A10-5800k.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 01:58 PM   #10
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Caveman, is the video memory available for the GPU more then 512mb limit of Llano? With x86 virtual memory sounds like video memory would be limited to available DDR3 memory but not sure. With eyefinity support it will need to have more then 512mb then again who would game with an APU with three monitors?

Nice to know it is compatible with the 6600HD cards which may make a nice upgrade for the Commodore rig I have. Just need to see some ITX motherboards supporting this chip.

Disappointed in the power ratings, they have not changed - look like Intel process is killing AMD in that area.
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Old Sep 29, 2012, 06:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noko View Post
Caveman, is the video memory available for the GPU more then 512mb limit of Llano? With x86 virtual memory sounds like video memory would be limited to available DDR3 memory but not sure. With eyefinity support it will need to have more then 512mb then again who would game with an APU with three monitors?

Nice to know it is compatible with the 6600HD cards which may make a nice upgrade for the Commodore rig I have. Just need to see some ITX motherboards supporting this chip.

Disappointed in the power ratings, they have not changed - look like Intel process is killing AMD in that area.
Find me an Intel CPU w/ an integrated GPU that offers equivalent CPU and GPU performance to any of AMD's APUs, for the same or less power than said AMD APU.

Really curious if Intel has one.
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 01:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noko View Post
Caveman, is the video memory available for the GPU more then 512mb limit of Llano?
Why do you think llano is limited to 512mb? It's not
If you have 2Gb of RAM in a system you'll be limited in the amount you can allocate. Add more RAM, get more dedicated video memory (also check for BIOS updates).
Quote:
Originally Posted by noko View Post
With x86 virtual memory sounds like video memory would be limited to available DDR3 memory but not sure.
What are you trying to ask here? I don't understand what you mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noko View Post
With eyefinity support it will need to have more then 512mb then again who would game with an APU with three monitors?
I think Eyefinity is much more than a gaming solution. Many applications benefit from multi monitor, and general multi-tasking is better with multi-monitor; just about every business could find a way to leverage multi-monitor. Eyefinity provides massive flexibility for businesses, with no additional cost and superb management tools (Eyefinity groups, profiles, hydravision, virtual desktops).

Quote:
Originally Posted by noko View Post
Disappointed in the power ratings, they have not changed - look like Intel process is killing AMD in that area.
Intel also don't have the GPU performance and features that AMD have, AMD is killing Intel in that area far more than Intel are killing AMD in CPU performance at the same price point.
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 04:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caveman-jim View Post
Why do you think llano is limited to 512mb? It's not
If you have 2Gb of RAM in a system you'll be limited in the amount you can allocate. Add more RAM, get more dedicated video memory (also check for BIOS updates).

What are you trying to ask here? I don't understand what you mean.

I think Eyefinity is much more than a gaming solution. Many applications benefit from multi monitor, and general multi-tasking is better with multi-monitor; just about every business could find a way to leverage multi-monitor. Eyefinity provides massive flexibility for businesses, with no additional cost and superb management tools (Eyefinity groups, profiles, hydravision, virtual desktops).

Intel also don't have the GPU performance and features that AMD have, AMD is killing Intel in that area far more than Intel are killing AMD in CPU performance at the same price point.
First question, well maybe I am limited to 512mb ram with my ITX Llano mobo, in the bios it has 512mb allocated. I have not checked DXDiag to see full amount so maybe I just don't know.

Yes Eyefinity is more usefull in non-gaming type situations with multiple monitor (my opinion). My question stemmed from my confusion or lack of knowledge of GPU ram amounts on this one. If more then this is not an issue.

Yes Intel doesn't compete well with GPU type usage but does blow away AMD on CPU type tasks which for business applications/scientific one has to look at the full picture. One, if one is not too concerned about price can get a 77w I7 with HD4000 graphics, a hell alot of cpu power with fair GPU power at a less power rating of AMD. Yes I am disspointed at AMD power ratings but weighing equavalent gpu performance with Intel meaning something like a GF 630 embedded on the mother board puts you on par for power with a hell alot more cpu power. Personally I rather go with AMD and a discreet card.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116501
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 04:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noko View Post
Yes Intel ... does blow away AMD on CPU type tasks
are you sure? $ for $?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noko View Post
for business applications/scientific one has to look at the full picture.
indeed, and that full picture must include graphics and platform features for the price, or you're thinking in intel terms of justifying spending on CPU.
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Old Sep 30, 2012, 08:28 PM   #15
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are you sure? $ for $?



indeed, and that full picture must include graphics and platform features for the price, or you're thinking in intel terms of justifying spending on CPU.


Well I say it depends on the predominate work load the setup will encounter and the software used. If the software makes use of APU shaders then AMD has the stronger part, if not then Intel will probably be stronger. So $ for $ it depends, either one could be the winner. Then there are cases where the differences makes no real difference to the user for example word processing and many other type of routine business applications.
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