Being forced out of my company

SubCog said:
My team got outsourced to India a few years back. They kept me (I'm the director of the team) in the US, and I did keep 1 employee in the UK, but I had to lay-off everyone else. I was pretty bummed, and very cynical that we'd be able to hire good designers out there.

Well everyone I laid-off got very generous severance packages, and they all quickly found higher-paying jobs, so that all worked out.

I was able to hire a really great Lead in Pune, and she was able to help hire other good people out there to fill out the team. They're dependable and very solid workers, and I've extended more and more license for them to work without close oversight from me. I've been really impressed with the talent out there. There's a couple things that we've done that's made this work:
  • Hired a very strong lead to anchor the Pune team. Someone who's very dedicated & hungry, and eager to help others too.
  • Learned to let go of the very hands-on management style that I was used to, when working with local employees. Especially with a 12 hour time difference, we found out quickly that we can't wait for them to run questions against me and wait for permission... very simple interactions can be multi-day turn-arounds. So I gave them more license to make decisions and inform me afterward... that's been very enabling for them, and also taken alot of weight off my shoulders.
  • We hired a few Product Managers in Pune, and created a geographic focus... we have several products that are run entirely out of that office now, end-to-end. Makes a massive difference.
Anyways, outsourced Indian employees often have a bad reputation, but can be really great if you hire well and manage them right.
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It’s the handoff that gets painful. I have had success too. But it needs to be the right engagement. The biggest problem I have is if a company wants to micro-manage every decision, outsourcing is really bad idea. If a company can’t decide clear requirements and outcomes, outsourcing is a bad idea,. The more back and forth necessary for a team to succeed, the worst the outcomes. It’s not fair to either party to force some sort of time zone on each other. I work on the west coast of the US. It’s exactly 12 time zones off from India. Building good communications channels can be nearly impossible without stressing everyone involved. Lately I have required a maximum of 4 time zone difference in all engagements and that is working much better. But upper management keeps pushing back that you can get 3 in India instead of 2 in Argentina (for example). Quantity is really secondary to quality to me. But that’s probably another reason I am gone.
 
I have no issues with Indians in India being competent. I was speaking about Indians in US being highly incompetent. :lol:
 
I'm sorry you are going through all of this -- but really, for your sanity, it does sound like it will be better in the end. It sucks because we work for companies and they want us to CARE... but they don't care about us in return. It's a one-way street, and you are only as good as your last project. One fuck-up, ever, and it's all they remember. Not all the big accomplishments over the years or grace for a bad day. Cry it out, get a punching bag and gloves if you need to, get the good bottle.

My last job, they let me go because they were "restructuring" and gave me 3 month's severance out of "recognition that I had turned the company around" but things were changing more now. They replaced my role with FIVE PEOPLE. I wore myself out for that job -- long hours, tons of stress. It was so bad that my husband would hand me a stiff drink the moment I walked in the door. Had I stayed another year as planned, maybe I would have wrapped my car around a tree or something -- who knows. It wasn't good. But it took me a year to feel like myself again.
 
greyghost said:
I'm sorry you are going through all of this -- but really, for your sanity, it does sound like it will be better in the end. It sucks because we work for companies and they want us to CARE... but they don't care about us in return. It's a one-way street, and you are only as good as your last project. One ****-up, ever, and it's all they remember. Not all the big accomplishments over the years or grace for a bad day. Cry it out, get a punching bag and gloves if you need to, get the good bottle.

My last job, they let me go because they were "restructuring" and gave me 3 month's severance out of "recognition that I had turned the company around" but things were changing more now. They replaced my role with FIVE PEOPLE. I wore myself out for that job -- long hours, tons of stress. It was so bad that my husband would hand me a stiff drink the moment I walked in the door. Had I stayed another year as planned, maybe I would have wrapped my car around a tree or something -- who knows. It wasn't good. But it took me a year to feel like myself again.
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Thanks greyghost. Sorry you had to deal with the same BS. I guess I flew a little too close to the sun and got burned. Mine is really frustrating because the message is they need to go a different direction. They even compliment me for what an amazing job I did last year. It’s not like I messed up at all, ever. My personal opinion is that the CTO has fucked up and needs a scapegoat. He is just claiming my role needs to be expanded beyond what I can do. So they are hiring a new SVP. (I am just a lowly VP).. It’s just a big distraction from his incompetence IMO. If only he had a magical SVP all his BS failed projects would finally be successful. Ironically, all the failed projects were not even under me this year. This makes me pissed. But, also makes me glad to be gone. The guy wasted millions on pet projects of his own last year that amounted to nothing. Meanwhile, I had pandemic, supply chain issues, great resignation leading to high attrition yet still achieved all my objectives. The CEO is really being negligent here. Adios.
 
greyghost said:
My last job, they let me go because they were "restructuring" and gave me 3 month's severance out of "recognition that I had turned the company around" but things were changing more now. They replaced my role with FIVE PEOPLE. I wore myself out for that job -- long hours, tons of stress. It was so bad that my husband would hand me a stiff drink the moment I walked in the door. Had I stayed another year as planned, maybe I would have wrapped my car around a tree or something -- who knows. It wasn't good. But it took me a year to feel like myself again.
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Wifey had a jerb like that a while back. She became almost totally unavailable and it was worse than being single. At least when one is single you can be seeking and it's easier to leave if you are in a relationship. I was just stuck with a messy glob of nothing. If her idiot bosses hadn't fired her we wouldn't have lasted.
 
JZL said:
Wifey had a jerb like that a while back. She became almost totally unavailable and it was worse than being single. At least when one is single you can be seeking and it's easier to leave if you are in a relationship. I was just stuck with a messy glob of nothing. If her idiot bosses hadn't fired her we wouldn't have lasted.
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Yeah I'll admit our marriage was getting rocky.
Thing is, when you are in that situation you don't even realize just HOW much it is taking away from your life.
And then they throw you away.
 
HR actually confirmed what I had suspected. Originally when I got the word I was being exited, the CTO explained to me that the org is too big, and he wants to split it up. And, in his experience, it never works out well when you downgrade someone to a smaller role. At the time I was pretty sick of his incompetence, so didn't fight him on this dumb point. Now he has flip-flopped and decided he need a new SVP to replace my VP role. I asked HR why the change and they told me he is now looking for someone with more "international" software development experience now. AKA: "Someone more open to outsourcing product development to India". I have never been 100% against outsourcing. But I constantly cautioned against doing it in all cases. The PE firm that owns us is pretty much run by accountants. So, I am sure my cautious tone is probably what ended me. At this point I am moving through the grief stages to somewhere in between depression and acceptance. So, I am not that surprised or angry about this. Just glad I am moving on. I feel bad for some of the long-term employees left behind. For the longest time the company invested in growing talent and went from start up to a greater than $10B valuation. The current PE firm seems to be more in a pump it up and dump it mode. I am sure the pandemic slowed down their aspirations. So, they probably need to accelerate cost cutting to make a transaction more attractive,

Personally, after 41 years in the tech industry, I think I am done with dealing with tech companies. To me it is really sad where the industry has morphed to in the last 15 - 20 years. Short term goals and stock windfalls are all that matter. Every fricken decision our CTO makes is all around maximizing his payout when the next transaction occurs. There is no time at all for improving product development, attacking new markets, or actually making the product more competitive. All he needs is a PowerPoint to sell the board, not an actual product. I miss the old days of entrepreneurial ventures and innovation driving new product development. Even smaller companies like the one I am at are no longer immune to this BS. I have seen this story too often lately. I am thinking of jumping careers into teaching and trying to get on a faculty at one of our local colleges. The pay will be far less. But I would rather spend my last working years giving back instead of dealing with the constant take asked for by corporations these days.
 
SD-[Inc said:
;n11060224] went from start up to a greater than $10B valuation. ... Even smaller companies like the one I am at are no longer immune to this BS.
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I wouldn't say a $10B is really one of the smaller companies. :)


Best of luck to you in the teaching gig.
 
Everyone wants to remove people who work and get cheap head bobbing Indians on the payroll. Such a shame. The level of incompetence I have seen is crazy.
 
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