RX 5700 XT vs 2060 Super: 6 months later.

[Exposed]

Sure are a lot of IFs being argued about here. Currently, the only arguments that hold any real meaning are those that are not based on IFs, which means currently, the 5700 XT is the best buy because it currently doesn't rely on IFs to achieve that.

Currently, the RTX 2060 is the best buy for someone looking to get into entry level ray tracing on a budget because it doesn't rely on IFs to achieve that. Currently, the RTX 2060 is the best buy for someone looking to get the best performance on a budget if their favorite game happens to be on the DLSS 2.0 support list. It currently doesn't rely on IFs to achieve that. An 8% performance uplift with a 5700XT is meaningless if an RTX 2060 gets a 75% performance uplift with DLSS 2.0. At a $20 difference at most, only one of these cards are "future proof".

Now if the IFs materialize 6 months or a year from now, then there might be something to argue about, and the 5700XT might not be the best buy at that time. However, by the time any of those IFs materialize which weighs heavily on enough games to be released that support certain features, there will be new cards out that have replaced both the 5700 XT and the 2060 super, so in all reality, there is no argument, even based on IFs.

One of the arguments presented for AMD card is that they always "aged like fine wine", like the OP put forth here. Now that the table has turned, all of a sudden it's no longer important? There will just be better cards anyway? In any given time, there is ALWAYS the option you can just buy a better card, but that argument is just a diversion here to avoid a 2060 being more future proof than a 5700XT simply because of DLSS 2.0



Hardware Unboxed acknowledged this. Not sure why it is hard for others.



Remind me again why you decided to buy a 2080 Super over a Radeon VII or 5700XT? If you keep your card for 3 years which one do you think will be more prepared to handle future games?

 

[Trunks0]

-_-' the clue is in your own reply. IF DLSS is in a title, IF DLSS continues to get support in a future title your gonna play. IF is not a given, it's a possibility.

You whats a given? That in the majority of games that do not have DLSS, the 5700XT is faster. Both now and later. The 2060 only ends up faster if a given title has DLSS.

 

[NWR_Midnight]

Currently, the RTX 2060 is the best buy for someone looking to get into entry level ray tracing on a budget because it doesn't rely on IFs to achieve that. Currently, the RTX 2060 is the best buy for someone looking to get the best performance on a budget if their favorite game happens to be on the DLSS 2.0 support list. It currently doesn't rely on IFs to achieve that. An 8% performance uplift with a 5700XT is meaningless if an RTX 2060 gets a 75% performance uplift with DLSS 2.0. At a $20 difference at most, only one of these cards are "future proof".




One of the arguments presented for AMD card is that they always "aged like fine wine", like the OP put forth here. Now that the table has turned, all of a sudden it's no longer important? There will just be better cards anyway? In any given time, there is ALWAYS the option you can just buy a better card, but that argument is just a diversion here to avoid a 2060 being more future proof than a 5700XT simply because of DLSS 2.0



Hardware Unboxed acknowledged this. Not sure why it is hard for others.



Remind me again why you decided to buy a 2080 Super over a Radeon VII or 5700XT? If you keep your card for 3 years which one do you think will be more prepared to handle future games?

Why I bought a 2080 super is irrelevant to the discussion. Specially since I never disclosed why I purchased it, which is also irrelevant.

Everything above is all based off of what ifs that haven't happened yet. For your argument to happen, all those ifs have to materialize. Ray tracing is not going to be a selling point on a low budget card, as those buying it are wanting the highest performance for the buck, which ray tracing doesn't give them higher performance. Even today, Ray tracing isn't a huge selling point for the 2080ti.

 

[Exposed]

-_-' the clue is in your own reply. IF DLSS is in a title, IF DLSS continues to get support in a future title your gonna play. IF is not a given, it's a possibility.

You whats a given? That in the majority of games that do not have DLSS, the 5700XT is faster. Both now and later. The 2060 only ends up faster if a given title has DLSS.

That is entirely the point. No one is arguing the point a 5700XT is about 8% faster than a 2060S in general. What you must also accept as well is that WHEN the technology that a 2060 possesses is enabled, then that 8% not only vanishes but also suffers a generational gap. For example DLSS 2.0 enables a 2060S to jump from 35fps to 71 fps in 1440p in Mechwarrior 5. You can even go higher and get near 4k quality out of the half dozen or so games out now on a 2060 at performance levels above and beyond what a 5700XT can muster. Throw ray tracing on top and now you even have effects and image quality not possible on a 5700XT. No, you won't be running RTX games on a 2060 at 4k, but you'll get reasonable performance at 1440p with DLSS 2.0

So, you're going to bank on 8 - 10 fps on regular titles if you choose a 5700XT. Compare that with the list of major AAA titles coming out soon and later this year with confirmed DLSS 2.0 support, a 2060S would trounce all over a 5700XT in 1440p and 4k. Add ray tracing to the mix with DLSS 2.0 and now you get IQ not even possible on a 5700XT.

This is not hard to understand. Even Hardware Unboxed gets it.

"Many of you probably think long term the 5700XT will age much better than the 2060 Super, that might not be the case if DLSS 2.0 game support dramatically improves in the future"

As I said, it appears the major AAA titles are jumping on the DLSS/RTX bandwagon. I forgot another one I was looking forward to in my prior list, Dying Light 2. Current games are also being slowly converted to DLSS 2.0. Minecraft in a few days and Modern Warfare to follow (these games support/will support ray tracing and can benefit from DLSS 2.0 on lesser cards). It's not a question of IF, but WHEN.

You've gone to great lengths to discredit DLSS 2.0, from saying its nothing special (AMD and Microsoft can do it too using Google/Amazon server farms ) so I need to ask why? Why are you dead set against technology?

 

[Trunks0]

That I can agree with. If you want RT now then the 2060 series is your cheapest playable route. But dlss is more of a feature for now and the very near future. Not 2-3yrs out.

 

[Exposed]

Why I bought a 2080 super is irrelevant to the discussion. Specially since I never disclosed why I purchased it, which is also irrelevant.

Everything above is all based off of what ifs that haven't happened yet. For your argument to happen, all those ifs have to materialize. Ray tracing is not going to be a selling point on a low budget card, as those buying it are wanting the highest performance for the buck, which ray tracing doesn't give them higher performance. Even today, Ray tracing isn't a huge selling point for the 2080ti.

Ray tracing by itself won't be much of an option a lower end card like the 2060S because of performance as you say. This was why when the original 2060/2070 were announced it was laughable because those cards just weren't powerful enough to run ray traced games (Battlefield 5/Metro Exodus at the time). But when coupled with DLSS 2.0, then it does become a viable option.

There's valid reasons to choose a 5700XT over a 2060S, and there's valid reasons for vice versa. I'm just not understanding the negativity surrounding the two advantages that a 2060S holds over the competitition for two reasons: one, it definitely makes the 2060S more "future proof" because two, the library of supported games is growing.

Do you not want gaming technology to evolve?

 

[NWR_Midnight]

Ray tracing by itself won't be much of an option a lower end card like the 2060S because of performance as you say. This was why when the original 2060/2070 were announced it was laughable because those cards just weren't powerful enough to run ray traced games (Battlefield 5/Metro Exodus at the time). But when coupled with DLSS 2.0, then it does become a viable option.

There's valid reasons to choose a 5700XT over a 2060S, and there's valid reasons for vice versa. I'm just not understanding the negativity surrounding the two advantages that a 2060S holds over the competitition for two reasons: one, it definitely makes the 2060S more "future proof" because two, the library of supported games is growing.

Do you not want gaming technology to evolve?

That's just it. There are not 2 advantages yet because there aren't enough games that support the tech. There are only a few games that support DLSS 2.0, with a promise of more. But that is where the problem is. They made those same promises about Ray Tracing and DLSS 1.0, and those promises didn't materialize. That is the source of the negatity, It's not the tech that is at fault here, It's the promises that never happened.

 

[acroig]

They made those same promises about Ray Tracing and DLSS 1.0, and those promises didn't materialize. That is the source of the negatity, It's not the tech that is at fault here, It's the promises that never happened.

With a growing user base and RT extensions added to Vulkan more devs will add RT to their games. I also had hoped for more but on the titles that have it I think it makes a great visual difference (depending on what type of RT is added).

 

[NWR_Midnight]

With a growing user base and RT extensions added to Vulkan more devs will add RT to their games. I also had hoped for more but on the titles that have it I think it makes a great visual difference (depending on what type of RT is added).

How does Vulkan adding RT extension make you believe devs will add RT to their games? DX12 has has RT extensions since 2018 and we saw very few add RT to games. In fact, there are many games who still have yet to add Vulkan to their titles, so I don't think Vulkan adding RT extensions will change anything.

 

[acroig]

How does Vulkan adding RT extension make you believe devs will add RT to their games? DX12 has has RT extensions since 2018 and we saw very few add RT to games. In fact, there are many games who still have yet to add Vulkan to their titles, so I don't think Vulkan adding RT extensions will change anything.

Well we know that iD has added RT extensions to their new engine and will add to Doom Eternal later on. Point is the hardware and software tools are coming together for more devs to adopt RT into games, especially with consoles getting RT in their next gen.

 

[bill dennison]

Well we know that iD has added RT extensions to their new engine and will add to Doom Eternal later on. Point is the hardware and software tools are coming together for more devs to adopt RT into games, especially with consoles getting RT in their next gen.

again with the adding it 6 months or a year after release

most people will have already finished with the game and be playing something else

if they don't rave it at release why bother just a waste of time and money

 

[acroig]

again with the adding it 6 months or a year after release

most people will have already finished with the game and be playing something else

if they don't rave it at release why bother just a waste of time and money

I'm not sure why it took so long for Wolfenstein to get it but can we blame nV for that or the dev?

 

[Trunks0]

Well we know that iD has added RT extensions to their new engine and will add to Doom Eternal later on. Point is the hardware and software tools are coming together for more devs to adopt RT into games, especially with consoles getting RT in their next gen.

But the 2060 Super right now, can barely handle RT. So it's ability to enable it 2-3yrs out in the future when more RT games come out isn't going to matter as it won't have the performance to use it.

 

[acroig]

But the 2060 Super right now, can barely handle RT. So it's ability to enable it 2-3yrs out in the future when more RT games come out isn't going to matter as it won't have the performance to use it.

Ray tracing by itself won't be much of an option a lower end card like the 2060S because of performance as you say. This was why when the original 2060/2070 were announced it was laughable because those cards just weren't powerful enough to run ray traced games (Battlefield 5/Metro Exodus at the time). But when coupled with DLSS 2.0, then it does become a viable option.

Round and round.... good song.

 

[NWR_Midnight]

Well we know that iD has added RT extensions to their new engine and will add to Doom Eternal later on. Point is the hardware and software tools are coming together for more devs to adopt RT into games, especially with consoles getting RT in their next gen.

The tools have been there in DX12 for 1.5 years... and the majority of devs have shown they do not want to take the time and money to develop it. Tools don't mean anything if the majority of builders don't want to use them. I mean look at DX12, and all that it offers, yet DX11 still top dog. Which is another reason Ray Tracing isn't on devs priority list.

This won't change until Ray Tracing becomes main stream, and it won't become mainstream until the majority of hardware purchased, regardless of brand, is able to run it at acceptable levels or it can be done via software. And the Devs want to put the time and money into it.

Now here is the tricky part, due to patents and licensing, what if Nvidia is the only real hardware based solution to that? Are they going to do what they did with Physx, where they shot themselves in the foot and pushed devs to utilize software based physx over hardware because Nvidia chose to lock out the competition and made it so their hardware wouldn't be utilized for Physx if you had an AMD card in your system? If that happens with their Ray Tracing technology, they may very well shoot themselves in the foot again, because devs will utilize software based ray tracing over hardware, and put their time and money into developing that, if it means that every customer can have the feature, not just those with special hardware.

Now, I'm not sure they can do that with Ray Tracing, because Ray Tracing is part of the DX12 spec. But, I am no expert on patents and such where hardware is concerned, and what they can and can't do.

But what it all boils down to is devs are going to cater to main stream. Ray Tracing isn't main stream right now, it's basically at enthusiast levels at this point and time.

 

[acroig]

But what it all boils down to is devs are going to cater to main stream. Ray Tracing isn't main stream right now, it's basically at enthusiast levels at this point and time.

Yeah but can the 5700 XT play Crysis Remastered with RT?

 

[Trunks0]

Yeah but can the 5700 XT play Crysis Remastered with RT?

Considering the 2060 can barely handle Quake2 remastered with RT @ 1080p and avg 60fps.... the 2060 won't be able to either.

 

[acroig]

Considering the 2060 can barely handle Quake2 remastered with RT @ 1080p and avg 60fps.... the 2060 won't be able to either.

My 2080Ti can't handle Quake 2 with RT. You did pick the worst example, props to you!

 

[Trunks0]

Quake 2 RTX runs alright on a 2080ti. The 2060 can run it, but it's a pretty extreme implementation of RT so only just. If DLSS was available, it would probably do just fine. But nVidia didn't implement it.

But that's the caveat of the 2060 series. Yes it has RT, but when the feature is stressed, it can only just barely use it right now. So saying that it's a feature worth having for the future, doesn't hold up very well.

 

[acroig]

Quake 2 RTX runs alright on a 2080ti. The 2060 can run it, but it's a pretty extreme implementation of RT so only just. If DLSS was available, it would probably do just fine. But nVidia didn't implement it.

But that's the caveat of the 2060 series. Yes it has RT, but when the feature is stressed, it can only just barely use it right now. So saying that it's a feature worth having for the future, doesn't hold up very well.

OK, you get the last word on this. It sucks.