Wow, Mac users are super out of touch.
- Thread starter SubCog
- Start date
SubCog
Radeon 8500 64mb
I use Pathfinder, as it's a dramatic improvement over the stock Finder. It's a shame that you can't replace Finder entirely.
There are really just 2 things I dislike about using a mac:
1.) The primary modifier (shortcut) key is in the wrong place. Mac expects you to press Command with your thumb (rather than ctrl with your pinky), which forces you to contort your hands in all kinds of unnatural ways. This is objectively inferior to Windows, and actually it's a legacy issue having to do with the original Mac's one-button mouse... Ctrl+click was the only way to access right-click menus. I don't know any mac users who use ctrl for right clicks, and frankly most mac users have no idea what ctrl does at all... so it's a shame that it messes up shortcuts even til today. Luckily the settings allow you to switch your shortcut key to the proper location.
2.) I hate the contextual menu at the top of the screen. It's another legacy artifact, as it was originally a way to declutter the original Mac's tiny black & white screen. On larger screens now, this decision means that the user has to constantly pay attention to which app is in focus, or else you might accidentally save a file from a totally different application. The windows paradigm is objectively superior, allowing each application window to contain it's own menu bar. This issue is exacerbated nowadays, that most apps are getting rid of the traditional file menus in exchange for newer, cooler options (Ribbons, or hamburgers like Chrome's settings menu). The result is that the Mac desktop is ugly, with OS crap on both the top and bottom of the screen, with your content sandwiched in between. It's especially bad on the new macbook pros with the oled touch bar on the keyboard, as that adds yet another contextual menu, far separated from the app it's attached to.
Those issues aside, I like my macbook pro just fine. It's a slick piece of hardware with great battery life that runs my design software like butter, and I can't complain about that.
Eisberg
New member
If MacOS is anything like iOS then it is the crappiest OS in the world. iOS is the most un-intuitive, user unfriendly, piece of sh-t OS I have ever dealt with. My wife and I got our first smart phones and she chose the Iphone 5 and I chose a Moto X (android). Before this I have never used any smartphone before, had zero experience on both android and iOS. With android I was instantly able to do all kind of stuff without having to look up instructions, it was all instinctive and very easy to use. Tried to use my wife's iphone, that iOS can die in a freakn fire , piece of garbage spewed from crapple. yes, I hated the iOS that much. Stuff that was so easy to do on the android was either not possible on the iOS or unnecessarily convoluted. Why people spend so much money for severely inferior products from Apple is beyond me.
daPhoenix
Well-known member
That's funny because I feel exactly the same way about Windows - even the tiniest most simplistic things like batch manipulation of file s without downloading some random separate application is completely impossible when I can do the same on Linux in a second.
Not to mention installing software is archaic, clicking next next next to install something. What the ****. Installing things from an app store? Sure, after you've waded through 50,000 random HELLO THIS IS MY FART APP garbage.
By the time you find **** that works from the myriad number of shitty apps, I've already done what I want on Linux and moved on to doing something else.
Samuraicow
New member
ThanksSamuraicow, that was an awesome break down
Wow, how no one told me about this before?
https://cocoatech.com/
Dude this is so awesome!!, thanks !
And yeah, this totally fits into my "open box" concept, stock stuff is okay'ish, replacement stuff (iTerm2 vs stock terminal) is so much better (also, TG Pro, for thermal management vs stock fan profile, whats with Apple thinking its cool to keep laptops hoovering on 90c degrees in the name of silence O_o)
I believe that you can resolve this via settings, you can setup your keyboard as "PC" (Microsoft Windows layout essentially) at which point CTRL does CMD functionality, so CTRL+S = save, instead of CMD+S, but the keys are still in the wrong place in the keyboard. At which point if you use external keyboard (on iMac\Mac Mini\Mac Pro - it even make sense, or MB\MBA\MBP if you use also external screen i guess) then you should be fine.
Personally, I got used to it after about two weeks of exclusive MacOS use, and then another 3 months of windows to mac back and forth use, and I still try to winkey+tab instead of alt+tab on windows when I switch around because of CMD button stuck in my muscle memory
The thing that made it easy is that .. just like CTRL on a windows machine, CMD is "in an edge", except instead of end of keyboard (corner, where for whatever twisted logic reason Apple has FN, which is only usable to convert function keys to F keys (so brightness button becomes F2) which is all sorts of useless) .. the CMD button is next to space button, so its easy to spot ..
Yeah can't believe I skipped saying it but my god is the new touchbar (not touch pad) just about the dumbest thing on the planet, all our life we stride to become touch typest pros that never look down, now they want us to look down\away from the screen? also no forcetouch (vibrate on use) makes the feel of it to be of an old smartphone's screen, so zero sensory feedback, also keys firing on touch rather than on keyreleses, means you can't rest your finger in anticipation for incoming use need (can't put finger on the virtual ESC key without it shooting bunch of times a second, should really be on "key release" but then, how do you cancel a keypres? on real keys, you can put your finger in, and then change your mind (maybe situation change?) and you can lift your finger, here ... if you touch you also clicked, no take backs) its just all around super bad.
After 2 months of suffering I eventually used the accessibility settings to change capslock to esc, like, who ever uses caps lock anways? even angry people dont use it to shout, they hold that f'ing shift key down and shout lol, but this is far from idle, esc needs to be a key
As for the top menu stuff, dude, wait until you see a user on low res 13" MBP (either due to eye sight or just having an older machine) ... they can't even view all the apps they have running because some apps menu invades the right portion of it.
also, nothing like needing to do some function (say, go to folder, and having forgotten the keybind for it) and then you have to click in the background (on your wallpaper) so that focus app changes to "finder" then you can do what you needed, then you need to click back (or command+tab back) to your app...... ehhhhhhhhhh
I hear you, for the first 5 hours of moving to iOS from only ever knowing android on smartphones (nokia n95 doesn't count, right?) I was just about ready to throw that thing outta window .... but once I stopped trying to use it like an android it became better.
and still, they have moved from "discoverable os"{thus, baby friendly, like original stock iPhone1 OS} to "random unexpected functionality while trying to do something else" case in point: with pressure, (not just touch, put pressure to it) from the middle lower part of the screen, if you swipe left, it swaps to last open app (like alt+tab in windows) ... and there are other examples where the UI is essentially "do some random gesture here that is not consistent with anything else", they need to have a sit down and fire some people IMHO.
Also, things have changes since iPhone5 days (it shipped 5 years and a half ago, thats a long ass time, it came out with iOS6, we are now on iOS10, i'd go as far as to say that the gap between 6 to 10 is as big as windows 98 and windows 10) I would recommend you to try using one with some open mindness, it might surprise you (theres now finally notification center on swipe from top edge to bottom, and quick function {brightness\bt\wifi\cam\flashlight\calc} on swipe bottom edge to top, which is straight up android signature functionality. You definitly still don't have to like it or switch to it but if it puts you in a position where you dont rule it out based on old exp, it gives you more options/choices.
And drivers man, dont forget about the never ending hassle of shitty drivers
that said, the performance of windows (for gaming at least) is second to none, but amount of man hours you sometimes have to burn to get your machine ready to work is crazy, its almost as if you are required to be a car mechanic just to drive O_o
Btw, for anyone using terminal, try iTerm2, it supports split view, which unlike tabs (which it supports too), you can for example on a single terminal window see:
your database
your serer running
have a place to still issue commands
(split view into 3), which is just so much better than constantly tabbing around or manually trying to align 3 terminal windows next to each other :}
jimmyboy
New member
It sounds like the Apple vs PC debate still lives. It used to be that you'd choose one or the other, depending on what you needed to do. And it sounds like that's still the case. I've never had to do anything where I needed an Apple, so I've always stuck to PCs.
And yet, I still don't like Apple, and two of the reasons are the same as they were many years ago:
- Apple fanatics
- cost
I see an Apple sticker on the rear window, I steer clear of that person.
And yet, I still don't like Apple, and two of the reasons are the same as they were many years ago:
- Apple fanatics
- cost
I see an Apple sticker on the rear window, I steer clear of that person.
I had a former boss who hired a person over others for web dev position simply because he used to work at the Apple store, because (her words) "The Apple store doesn't just hire anybody. Being hired by the Apple store shows you have integrity and intelligence to work anywhere else." 
DiaperJe|\|i3
New member
MAC gets a completely new OS every year.
Windows 10 is far from perfect. The amount of crap that MS assumes you want enabled drives me nuts (patch sharing, etc). The tablet, touch stuff that nobody uses. However if I had to use MAC every day I would lose my mind. Just the fact that they abstract the file system for the graphical os so you never really know where that ****ing file I just saved went. Once you get the the shell it's fine but OSX is a big pile of pooh!
Windows 10 is far from perfect. The amount of crap that MS assumes you want enabled drives me nuts (patch sharing, etc). The tablet, touch stuff that nobody uses. However if I had to use MAC every day I would lose my mind. Just the fact that they abstract the file system for the graphical os so you never really know where that ****ing file I just saved went. Once you get the the shell it's fine but OSX is a big pile of pooh!
vitocorleone
New member
They used to. Now, like everything else Apple, it's tiny increments.
I also use Win10 and a MBP every day. As long as I'm not experimenting with stuff I know can cause issues, I have fewer problems with Win10 than the MBP, and, if it weren't for the popularity of the MBP with Designers these days, I'd never have gotten one.
ShaidarHaran
New member
I dunno, I notice changes every major update... I wouldn't go so far as to say it's completely new, but its way more significant than changes for Windows OS revisions.
also, Eisberg:
You're not helping that stereotype about yourself by telling everyone how hard it is for you to use iOS...
also, Eisberg:
You're not helping that stereotype about yourself by telling everyone how hard it is for you to use iOS...
vitocorleone
New member
I've been using (and working on software for) mobile phones since '98. I'd say that Android just came out of "beta" in the last year or two - it's finally competitive, after being a hot mess for so long. In fact, I'd say that, right now, the Android OS is probably better overall than iOS. However, where Apple still wins my personal business is in the total package of hardware+OS+apps.
MasterGoa
New member
Break up, go thought life, start a relationship...
With stickers
And semi-independent 60's esque rock and roll music...
vitocorleone
New member
Wait. Whut?
That may be true going forward, as Microsoft adopts the Apple model of tiny incremental updates for Windows 10, but to say there's more significant changes between versions of Mac OS and Windows to date is just
There's a component in each camp that's about as willfully obtuse as you can get. And there's not much point in discussing the pros and cons of each OS with either side.
My MBP and my win10 gaming laptop sit side by side, I use em both quite a bit these days and am happy with the setup. That's ALL that matters to me.
When I get tired of one or the other or both, they'll get replaced by one or the other. Meh, non-topic for me. I'm Ambidex_OS_trious.
gamefoo21
New member
As someone who used to do tech work on Apple machines...
They are for certain people, just like some people are die hards for various Linux distros, some are diehards for various Windows editions.
I can use iOS, and OSx... Does it mean I like the way they do things, no. Apple is an evil corporation, that rams stuff down peoples throats. MS does it too, but in a less, by the way you need to buy these adapters, and we'll sue everyone who sells an off brand adapter, so we can fleece our supporters sort of way.
I'll take a well built business class Windows machine, and hackintosh it. I'll end up with what I want.
TLDR:
Computer operating systems are like religious beliefs, everyone disagrees with everyone who isn't in their camp.
They are for certain people, just like some people are die hards for various Linux distros, some are diehards for various Windows editions.
I can use iOS, and OSx... Does it mean I like the way they do things, no. Apple is an evil corporation, that rams stuff down peoples throats. MS does it too, but in a less, by the way you need to buy these adapters, and we'll sue everyone who sells an off brand adapter, so we can fleece our supporters sort of way.
I'll take a well built business class Windows machine, and hackintosh it. I'll end up with what I want.
TLDR:
Computer operating systems are like religious beliefs, everyone disagrees with everyone who isn't in their camp.
ShaidarHaran
New member
Wait. Whut?
That may be true going forward, as Microsoft adopts the Apple model of tiny incremental updates for Windows 10, but to say there's more significant changes between versions of Mac OS and Windows to date is just
Vista -> 7 consisted of a minor re-skin and some bug fixes/performance improvements. Those 2 OSes were the only Windows consumer OS releases between 2006 and 2012 until 8 came out. During that time how many OSX revisions were there?
ShaidarHaran
New member
I'm not saying 7 wasn't empirically better than Vista, just that if you break it down to the nuts and bolts they're both based on the same major NT kernel release (6.x). Technically so are 8/8.1 also, and even 10 used a 6.x kernel during development but was arbitrarily increased to kernel number 10 later in its development and just prior to release.
SubCog
Radeon 8500 64mb
I've been saying for years, that the OS of the future is called "Who the hell cares?"
Seriously, there's less reason than ever to prefer one OS over another. With the vast majority of work tasks going to the web... geez I can't remember the last time I installed a native app that wasn't a game. Actually my entire work stack is now web-based. I'm a UX designer by trade, and my team migrated to Figma late last year. It's totally web-based, and it's spectacular.
I can now work on ANYTHING, from a Chromebook, to an Oculus Quest, Xbox, or cheap Amazon tablet. OS no longer matters to me.
Plus, loads of efforts nowadays to run other OS's apps on every OS. Steam Deck has proved that running Windows apps is totally viable, and now Apple is gunning for it too... I just read last week that there's now ways to run Windows apps in Android too. We've been able to run Android apps in Windows for years now. It's only a matter of time before we start seeing MS pursue running mac apps in Windows as well.
I do think we're moving toward a new era of streaming cloud computing... I know, I know, people have been saying that since the 90s, but I actually think we're getting close. I think we'll get to a point where you can stream a single app from any OS into your browser, which will basically allow you to run anything on anything.
Seriously, there's less reason than ever to prefer one OS over another. With the vast majority of work tasks going to the web... geez I can't remember the last time I installed a native app that wasn't a game. Actually my entire work stack is now web-based. I'm a UX designer by trade, and my team migrated to Figma late last year. It's totally web-based, and it's spectacular.
I can now work on ANYTHING, from a Chromebook, to an Oculus Quest, Xbox, or cheap Amazon tablet. OS no longer matters to me.
Plus, loads of efforts nowadays to run other OS's apps on every OS. Steam Deck has proved that running Windows apps is totally viable, and now Apple is gunning for it too... I just read last week that there's now ways to run Windows apps in Android too. We've been able to run Android apps in Windows for years now. It's only a matter of time before we start seeing MS pursue running mac apps in Windows as well.
I do think we're moving toward a new era of streaming cloud computing... I know, I know, people have been saying that since the 90s, but I actually think we're getting close. I think we'll get to a point where you can stream a single app from any OS into your browser, which will basically allow you to run anything on anything.
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