Navi

Getting back on track with Navi as I've said all along and IMHO it won't be available until until 2H 2019 at the earliest. As AMD said at CES they are concentrating on Ryzen this year and RTG will be taking a big back seat. They also don't seem interested in a 12nm refresh Vega 64/56 as all resources seem to be going to Zen + and APU's which is really what AMD are all about. TBH nothing wrong with that as AMD are a CPU company at heart and Zen has definitely got them back in the game.

As one of the lucky ones to buy a Vega 64 on launch date (£449) and owning a 144hz 1440p freesync monitor I'm a happy chappy indeed. Just looked on some sites and my card, second hand, is going for over £800 but I'm not in the least interested in selling as for me it's a great gaming card. For me, personally, at 1440p Vega 64 is a tremendous gaming card. Yes it's noisy and hot but that can be tamed with some tweaking so it's not really a big deal. This card is a definite keeper for at least two years and TBH I won't be in a big hurry to update to Navi.

Personally I can't emphasise just how good freesync is for gaming until you've tried it. I was a big naysayer when it first came out and unfortunately fell out with Caveman Jim about it. Now I'm using it all I can say is it's a game changer without doubt, which I'm sure is the same for Gsync for Nvidia cards. Once you try it you're hooked at the fluidity it brings and there's no going back TBH.

Like the Fury cards Vega 64/56 will be the top cards for AMD until Navi in 2019 and that I'm afraid is going to be the reality. If card prices stay as high as they are the NV 1180 will be selling for over $1,000 which is totally insane but unfortunately that's where the market is at moment. A Ti version, well who knows what that will cost. I sell some of my second hand tech to a company that specialises in 2nd hand goods and they had a Palit Game Rock 1080 on sale last week for £450. I popped in yesterday and it's now on sale for £525 WTF. Card prices are just getting insane.
 
LordHawkwind said:
Getting back on track with Navi as I've said all along and IMHO it won't be available until until 2H 2019 at the earliest. As AMD said at CES they are concentrating on Ryzen this year and RTG will be taking a big back seat. They also don't seem interested in a 12nm refresh Vega 64/56 as all resources seem to be going to Zen + and APU's which is really what AMD are all about. TBH nothing wrong with that as AMD are a CPU company at heart and Zen has definitely got them back in the game.

As one of the lucky ones to buy a Vega 64 on launch date (£449) and owning a 144hz 1440p freesync monitor I'm a happy chappy indeed. Just looked on some sites and my card, second hand, is going for over £800 but I'm not in the least interested in selling as for me it's a great gaming card. For me, personally, at 1440p Vega 64 is a tremendous gaming card. Yes it's noisy and hot but that can be tamed with some tweaking so it's not really a big deal. This card is a definite keeper for at least two years and TBH I won't be in a big hurry to update to Navi.

Personally I can't emphasise just how good freesync is for gaming until you've tried it. I was a big naysayer when it first came out and unfortunately fell out with Caveman Jim about it. Now I'm using it all I can say is it's a game changer without doubt, which I'm sure is the same for Gsync for Nvidia cards. Once you try it you're hooked at the fluidity it brings and there's no going back TBH.

Like the Fury cards Vega 64/56 will be the top cards for AMD until Navi in 2019 and that I'm afraid is going to be the reality. If card prices stay as high as they are the NV 1180 will be selling for over $1,000 which is totally insane but unfortunately that's where the market is at moment. A Ti version, well who knows what that will cost. I sell some of my second hand tech to a company that specialises in 2nd hand goods and they had a Palit Game Rock 1080 on sale last week for £450. I popped in yesterday and it's now on sale for £525 WTF. Card prices are just getting insane.
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I'm pretty much in the same boat, as the same 2X performance increase requirement over Vega still applies just like it has in past with the X290, and for that to happen, requires a new fab process and the difference between 14nm ( Vega ) and Global's 12 nm isn't large enough to allow such a large increase while keeping GPU prices somewhere in the sane territory......I don't think anyone here wants to see their video card cost 2~3x more than their CPU, but we're heading there for the high end at this pace.


The only thing that would approach the 2x performance over Vega right now in this very instant, is the Titan V using the big Volta chip as it is about 30~40% faster than Pascal, meaning around 70% ish percent faster than Vega but one has to be a real hardware nut to swallow the 3000$ asking price tag.....High end Multi GPU setups are cheaper and can be faster still, all depending on the game....:lol:


So for both AMD and Nvidia, the next real step is the 7nm process which rumors have it should be as good as intel's 10nm process in both size and power use, and would allow high end video cards in the more acceptable 700~800$ range to be twice as fast as anything out now....Nvidia won't be under any pressure to release anything faster than Pascal for gaming for a while longer, so will they bother with a gaming Volta if the need isn't there to begin with?....Time will tell.
 
Funny thing ( or maybe not.....:p ), is if one wants the next generation right now, just get a pair of titan V's using Volta, pay the inherent 6000$ price tag for both cards, and any other possible setup is left in the dust for now.....Planned obsolescence, gotta love it.


For the rest, we wait until there's more affordable gear out.
 
The guys behind the tegra at Nvidia is now head of RTG... We'll see if that works out.
 
Damn now that is interesting. That was a great gpu. But it was ages ago... I wonder if he still has that design ability with modern architectures tho...

Edit: oh ya he was there a long time:

And as you might expect for someone hired for AMD’s top GPU engineering post, Wang has a long history in the graphics industry, working for SGI before joining ArtX and going through the ArtX-to-ATI-to-AMD acquisition chain.
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Wang has worked on every AMD GPU between the R300 and the Southern Islands (GCN 1.0) family, so he’s seen the full spectrum over at AMD.
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AMD To Introduce World’s First, 7nm, High-Performance CPUs and GPUs at CES 2019 – Aimed To Catapult Computing and Gaming Technologies Forward
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https://wccftech.com/amd-intros-7nm-cpus-gpus-ces-2019/

AMD’s Leadership and World’s First 7nm High-Performance CPUs and GPUs To Be Introduced at CES 2019 – CEO, Lisa Su, To Keynote on 9th January
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3 months :cool:

hopefully it is a high end gaming card



……….
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13425/amds-ceo-lisa-su-to-host-ces-2019-keynote-7nm-cpus-and-gpus
 
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Hapatingjaky said:
You are going to be disappointed. The only good thing out of this is Zen2.
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I don't know. It's not out of the realm of possibility. Even a shrunk Vega probably would be competitive with 1080 Ti and 2080, possibly even 2080 Ti. It's just not clear it would be competitive with Nvidia's new 3000 series which will also be 7nm.

Vega's crappiness is a legitimate, but in some respects also overstated. If run at rational frequencies its efficiency isn't really that much worse than Pascal. It's just Vega 64 was highly overclocked out of that range to match the 1080, making it look like ****.

If they gained even 40% performance improvement on the die shrink that would be enough to have a Vega competitive with 1080 Ti in both performance and power efficiency.
 
Im kinda expecting one of 2 things. Either itll be a traditional shading monster and ignore RT to some degree but nail a win in the fps dept this round vs the 20 gen nvidia. Or they will double down on RT and make it a lost faster than the 20 gen.

AMD tends to like being the feature leader at the cost of some perf.
 
Hapatingjaky said:
You are going to be disappointed. The only good thing out of this is Zen2.
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nope .

then i'll buy just Zen2
but I think they may have something or they would not have released this now when they know if they don't deliver people will be pissed




but it is impossible for me to be more disappointed than I am with $Vidia this round
 
Well, my source did say RTG was planning something for 1H 2019.... He's not in RTG division so he isn't in the know but they do talk to each other sometimes. lol
 
I hope they really jack up the transistor budget on 7nm (apparently really 10nm but still). 12 nm (really 14 nm) 20 gen has ~19 billion tops?

I dont see why amd or nvidia cant put 25 billion+ and put forward a really strong chip.
 
pax said:
I hope they really jack up the transistor budget on 7nm (apparently really 10nm but still). 12 nm (really 14 nm) 20 gen has ~19 billion tops?

I dont see why amd or nvidia cant put 25 billion+ and put forward a really strong chip.
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Power budget for one and sheer size of the GPU as the other.....
 
pax said:
I dont see a 25 billion tranny chip being bigger than the nvidia 20 gen.
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Nvidia 2080 TI has the GT102 GPU which is packing 17.9 billion transistors for it's 754mm^ size, so where do you pack the remaining 7 billion transistors?....That's nearly the amount of transistors found in the regular GTX1080 cards using the GP104 GPU.
 
17.9 on 12nm which is really a kind of 16 nm...

7nm will do 25b easy on a smaller die
 
pax said:
17.9 on 12nm which is really a kind of 16 nm...

7nm will do 25b easy on a smaller die
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You make it sound really easy on a brand new process where most customers first start on simple designs and then as they become more confortable move up the complexity and die size.....Do keep in mind that TSMC's 7nm also has parts made at 12nm, so it isn't a "pure" 7nm process and Intel got shafted big time trying to move to a pure 10nm process for the last 2+ years and they have the big money and state of the art factories for it.
 
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