Bloodborne - PS4 Exclusive from Hidetaka Miyazaki

I just tested the vial runes. The amount didn’t update on rune change, or awakening….so I let myself die and that did it. I could have swore they updated on awakening. Guess I was wrong lol.
 
So I know I haven't posted about any progress in a while. I've given it a lot of thought, and deliberated with myself quite a bit on this but I've come to the realization I don't like this game as much as any of FS's other Souls titles. Yes, I think I have to put it at the bottom of the stack in my personal ranking.

By no means do I think its a bad game. In fact I think its quite brilliant and unique in many ways. But personally its just not clicking with me and I believe it breaks the mold of Souls games too much for me to accept. I have quite a few issues with it that continue to hamper my enjoyment of the moment to moment gameplay when compared to every other Souls game (including Sekiro). Of course I still have not finished the game, so I should be reserving final judgment for when I do, but I do feel some certain complaints will not change and its quite possible I will not be completing it.

1) No blocking/defense mechanic -
Bloodborne has made me realize the thing I love most about FS's games are their advanced blocking mechanics, and general defensive gameplay. All of their games revolve around great, solid defensive gameplay, and they even went back to it after Bloodborne and created their best one of all with Sekiro. When I play these games I always strive for a perfect, no hit taking performance with every encounter and unfortunately Bloodborne just does not allow for that. Instead making most encounters feel sloppy and too unpredictable. The game almost expects you to take damage on a regular basis, and accounts for it with the implementation of the rally mechanic to give you the chance to gain that lost health back. It was either an experimental attempt of doing something wildly out of character for them, or a necessary band-aid fix for the fact you were always going to take damage no matter how good you play. Of course I suppose one could eventually learn the game well enough and improve to the point this is overcome, but I don't believe that should be necessary. I am literally taking damage with nearly every enemy encounter, due to the need to be overly aggressive and the sporadic and unpredictable nature of the enemy attacks and follow ups.

2) Enemies have too much HP and/or weapon scaling isn't that great -
This is perhaps a premature complaint and I may just be missing something that I would learn more about later. But no matter how much I level up I do not get that satisfying feeling that I'm getting stronger in this game. In every new area I'm finding the enemies are absolute damage sponges, but they can kill you extremely quickly or even one shot you which brings me to my next point.

3) Grab attacks and status effects like frenzy -
Waaay too many enemies have grab attacks or other such bullshit moves in this game. Used to be incredibly rare in past FS games but still annoying when it happened, yet they decided to make it more common in Bloodborne. I never thought I would find the combat of a Souls game tedious or at times feeling unfair but this game does it for me.

4) Blood vial consumable farming -
Yeah I've already spouted my dissatisfaction with this problem so I wont go into much more detail. I'll just reiterate is its a major pacing and immersion killer, especially when dying at a tense and challenging spot of the game. I actually fear death more so from the fact I'll need to waste time farming more vials, than to actually replay the tough area or boss at hand. Major game design blunder.

5) Hardly ever bother using the gun for parrying anymore -
Again with making parrying use up a consumable item it discourages me from wanting to parry as much. In all other Souls games I parry everything in sight that's parry-able. That twitchy, close quarter high damage mechanic is 99% of the fun in these games for me. But this game ultimately wants to limit you from doing it. Just as with blood vials I regularly find myself running out of bullets trying to play this way which will require the need for farming, so its a no go. That, along with removing the tried and true defensive play I so enjoy is just too much of a fundamental change for me. Also the made it too easy to pull off parries which makes it boring anyways.

6) 30 fps -
Not much more really needs to be said on this but I just can't stand 30 fps games, and this one is especially grating on the eyes. It was really tough while I was sick last month, but even since feeling better I still can't tolerate it. Its so bad its gotten inside my head where I start feeling nauseous at the title screen. :lol: :nuts:



So as it stands I don't know what I want to do here. I am usually not one to leave a game unfinished but I really don't think I want to press on anymore. I feel bad because I also think I may not have given the game enough of a chance. But its just not fun for me at all so why continue? I assume I'm still fairly early on in the game, working my way through Forbidden Woods. In all, I think it may just be a case where the old Souls gameplay formula is too ingrained in me and I cannot tolerate much change. But surprisingly I did love Sekiro immensely. But maybe that game was still the right combination of old and new mechanics that it still worked for me - which brings me back to thinking what I really need in these games is a solid defensive mechanic to strive for that clean untouched enemy engagement each time.

In curiosity I checked out some old early playthrough videos from Lobosjr to see how the game progresses a bit later on and it just looks like more of the same tedious gameplay, and does not look at all like something I'd be looking forward to. For now I'm hoping if I just put the game down and play some other stuff for a while I'll get the itch for it again in the future. or maybe there's still some small hope for a 60 fps remaster or PC port?? ( :lol: ) If not well its no big deal, can't love them all. In the meantime I think I want to grab a copy of Ghost of Tsushima and start that one. Unfortunately I'll still have to deal with 30 fps but what I've seen of the combat of that game it looks much more to my liking.

So for now, Bloodborne is :down:
 
Try yolo:ing it, bborne rewards sloppy play.

I was incredible reckless during my single playthrough, actions that would get you wrecked in other souls-likes are the path of success in bloodborne.
 
I would just walk away from no regrets Meteor. All of these games are either love it or hate it (figuratively speaking) type games, and the changes they made with BB don't agree with you. Not to mention the physical side effects it's having on you.

You and I have been really fortunate to enjoy the majority of FS's games the way we do. I have one I didn't care for, and now you do too :D

Regarding the 30 fps, that's noticeable to me in BB as well, but Ghosts of Tsushima > there's literally no comparison in smoothness of movement, gameplay and visuals.

I wish I had bought that on disc so I could get it to you, but it would be nice if you know anyone who has it so you can try before you buy.
 
The problem with BB is the framepacing, it actually is one of the better performing from console titles, but the uneven framepacing will make those 30 frames feel like a game running at 20-something fps.

Something that would be easily remedied by the CPU in a ps5, but sony does not care.

And then there is the fact that some people get headaches by overdone chromatic aberration, it's a shame that they never added a toggle for it.
 
The problem with BB is the framepacing, it actually is one of the better performing from console titles, but the uneven framepacing will make those 30 frames feel like a game running at 20-something fps.

Something that would be easily remedied by the CPU in a ps5, but sony does not care.

It still surprises me that they haven't updated this for the 5. Their, and lots of gamers...loss I guess.

Hopefully we'll all be surprised by a PC release one day, fully updated.
 
I just finished it and had the opposite experience. (Except of course the bad FPS). I enjoyed it and felt I could scale my character to make up for some of my not so great souls-game skills. I did go through some game guides that helped a lot. I have no idea how some people uncovered many of the secrets of Bloodborne because they are insanely hidden. Parry is a must learn skill. It’s not always needed. But when you get good it’s insanely useful in some encounters. Plus, there is the tool called The Augur of Ebrietas that makes other hunters look silly when you take them out. I got all secret bosses and got the final secret boss as well. Each one was very different to fight and none were easy. Following a gameplay guide made the whole experience much more enjoyable as I would have missed 40% of the game otherwise. A lot of love went into the game. It really needs a FPS patch even on PS4 Pro. It was one of the first PS4 games and never really got any upgrades. Still, I see why people call it a classic.
 
You pretty much echo my personal thoughts on the game SD. I didn't use a guide because I'm really into self punishment :lol: but after I beat the game the first time I started looking things up and found out just how much I missed.

I do get Meteor's point though. However a game is built, if you're not enjoying it you're not enjoying it. Move on to something you enjoy. That's why we game, to have fun and enjoy.

I personally don't mind taking damage as it just adds to the challenge for me. I just gave "Against All Comers" in Nioh 2 a shot....heck man, that'll make you grateful to just survive lol.

Again, to each their own. Personal preference is what it's all about.
 
You pretty much echo my personal thoughts on the game SD. I didn't use a guide because I'm really into self punishment :lol: but after I beat the game the first time I started looking things up and found out just how much I missed.

I do get Meteor's point though. However a game is built, if you're not enjoying it you're not enjoying it. Move on to something you enjoy. That's why we game, to have fun and enjoy.

I personally don't mind taking damage as it just adds to the challenge for me. I just gave "Against All Comers" in Nioh 2 a shot....heck man, that'll make you grateful to just survive lol.

Again, to each their own. Personal preference is what it's all about.

Bloodborne gives you 20 health vials to start with. This is a very generous amount. Plus, being aggressive restores health. I know Meteor ran low on vial inventory a couple of times which negates that benefit. But, more exploration usually solves that over time. So, it’s a good/balanced way to handle your vitality. If I had 20 available I almost never ran out before ending a boss. So your health is very manageable. Therefore, the only way to die is bad decisions on health management. Backing out of a fight at the wrong time is the best way to die. Once I learned that, I had such a better experience in the game. It’s a simple mechanism that works for almost all situations. You just need to learn, depending on moveset of boss, whether to dodge in or back to heal. I liked that slow reaction people like myself could adapt much better in this game than the other souls games. Nioh just seems all about punishment. Sekiro was more grinding in that you only win with 0 mistakes. I liked Bloodborne the best. Probably because of this mechanic and the fact it worked best for my playing style.

If the poor frame rates make you nauseous, I can totally understand the enjoyment for the game would plummet. It seemed a lot worse in the beginning of the game. And, was annoying at the worst possible moment. It’s too bad no patch ever fixed that because the game would be near perfect instead.
 
Bloodborne gives you 20 health vials to start with. This is a very generous amount. Plus, being aggressive restores health. I know Meteor ran low on vial inventory a couple of times which negates that benefit. But, more exploration usually solves that over time. So, it’s a good/balanced way to handle your vitality. If I had 20 available I almost never ran out before ending a boss. So your health is very manageable. Therefore, the only way to die is bad decisions on health management. Backing out of a fight at the wrong time is the best way to die. Once I learned that, I had such a better experience in the game. It’s a simple mechanism that works for almost all situations. You just need to learn, depending on moveset of boss, whether to dodge in or back to heal. I liked that slow reaction people like myself could adapt much better in this game than the other souls games. Nioh just seems all about punishment. Sekiro was more grinding in that you only win with 0 mistakes. I liked Bloodborne the best. Probably because of this mechanic and the fact it worked best for my playing style.

If the poor frame rates make you nauseous, I can totally understand the enjoyment for the game would plummet. It seemed a lot worse in the beginning of the game. And, was annoying at the worst possible moment. It’s too bad no patch ever fixed that because the game would be near perfect instead.
I think BB is the easiest out of all of the Soulsborne games, followed by Demon's Souls, but there's a couple of fights where the camera gets really carried away if you aren't careful. Playing through that while nauseous? No thank you :lol:

Nioh is a whole different monster. To the point it shouldn't even be called 'souls like' at times. The game is out to break the player, and then gloat over the crushed and bleeding body :lol: The thing with Nioh is after a point, if you pay attention to all the perks the devs give you, it's not hard to start wrecking the game fairly quickly. And the co-op is some of the best.
 
I hated Sekiro. Spamming the parry button as fast as you could fishing for it.. bah. The bosses were completely unoriginal and absurdly difficult not by technique or moveset but by quantity. The Guardian Ape made me want to throw my controller through the wall. I finally got him and said sweet! What comes up not even an hour later? TWO ****ING APES AT THE SAME ****ING TIME. I believe I killed them after spending at least a day on it, and never turned the game on again. :lol:
 
Sekiro is my least favorite and F those apes :lol:

I got to the final boss on that one and just gave up. So many damn health bars to deal with. I know I could eventually take him down. But, I had better things to do with my life than 50 attempts to beat a boss. The Ape sucked. But, was much more beatable.
 
Trust me no one was more surprised than me to not like the game, and believe me I wish it wasn't the case. :( Also, and not at all trying to claim I'm great at these games but I don't think it has anything to do with lack of skill or mismanaging health or anything like that. I just feel the style of play the game encourages does not lend well to how I personally want to play, or something to that effect. In my previous post I was kind of trying to layout for myself what I thought were the reasons I wasn't finding the enjoyment in BB I assumed I would, and to get you guys' opinions.

After being a Souls fan for going on a decade now ( :eek: ) and someone who has played through and loved all FS's previous Souls games and done multiple SL1 runs I don't think the issue is that the game is too hard for me. Its more a matter of lack of enjoyment due to the changes they made to the gameplay in this one causing me not to want to put in the effort. BB just doesn't click with me, much the same as some of you guys didn't like Sekiro. These games truly are very hardcore in nature, despite their surprising popularity, so its only natural that eventually even fans of the genre are eventually going to not like some of them. Guess I finally found the one I don't really care for.

I concluded that my main hangup with the game is the change of focus to aggressive offensive based combat rather than the tactically defensive nature of their previous games. Best I can explain it is I think I just prefer to play Souls style games reactively rather than proactively, always countering the enemy's attacks and of course this game does not play well like that unless you enjoy seeing your health constantly dropping and the constant war of attrition to get your health back. I could obviously just roll with it and play the game aggressively but that's where the problem is. I find most of the time the gameplay gets too sloppy and I hate it.

Also yeah, like Mangler mentioned I feel the frame pacing issues and overall low fps do not lend well to the fast aggressive gameplay which makes most encounters even messier when they devolve into complete chaos and uncontrolled mayhem. In previous Souls games I always had a feeling of complete control with every encounter, where any mistake was undoubtedly of my own doing. But BB feels like the first Souls game where I often feel like in all the mayhem the game often unfairly screws me over somehow, losing that sense of control and fairness their games have been known for. As I eluded to in my previous post I am a bit of a perfectionist with these games which is an absolute curse for me with BB. I always try to do perfect run throughs of each section without taking any damage but this game makes that style of play too difficult for my liking.

I would just walk away from no regrets Meteor. All of these games are either love it or hate it (figuratively speaking) type games, and the changes they made with BB don't agree with you. Not to mention the physical side effects it's having on you.

You and I have been really fortunate to enjoy the majority of FS's games the way we do. I have one I didn't care for, and now you do too :D

Regarding the 30 fps, that's noticeable to me in BB as well, but Ghosts of Tsushima > there's literally no comparison in smoothness of movement, gameplay and visuals.

I wish I had bought that on disc so I could get it to you, but it would be nice if you know anyone who has it so you can try before you buy.

Thanks man. Makes perfect sense but I for some reason hate the thought of giving up on a Souls game. Its like an existential crisis to me! :lol: As much as I am complaining about it I know I am eventually going to finish the playthrough just for my own internal completionism.

But good to hear Ghost of Tsushima seems to feel better in regards to framerate. That's encouraging because I'd hate to end up having the same complaint with that game when I start it.

The problem with BB is the framepacing, it actually is one of the better performing from console titles, but the uneven framepacing will make those 30 frames feel like a game running at 20-something fps.

Something that would be easily remedied by the CPU in a ps5, but sony does not care.

And then there is the fact that some people get headaches by overdone chromatic aberration, it's a shame that they never added a toggle for it.

That's an interesting point you bring up about headaches from chromatic aberration that I hadn't thought about. I think it may also be something that is making the game tough for me to play. I have definitely noticed it to be quite extreme in BB, with a weird blur of the graphics at times which I think is part of what is bothering my eyes. Arghh if only this game was released for PC. A few tweaks here and there would probably solve all my issues with it.

Bloodborne gives you 20 health vials to start with. This is a very generous amount. Plus, being aggressive restores health. I know Meteor ran low on vial inventory a couple of times which negates that benefit. But, more exploration usually solves that over time. So, it’s a good/balanced way to handle your vitality. If I had 20 available I almost never ran out before ending a boss. So your health is very manageable. Therefore, the only way to die is bad decisions on health management. Backing out of a fight at the wrong time is the best way to die. Once I learned that, I had such a better experience in the game. It’s a simple mechanism that works for almost all situations. You just need to learn, depending on moveset of boss, whether to dodge in or back to heal. I liked that slow reaction people like myself could adapt much better in this game than the other souls games. Nioh just seems all about punishment. Sekiro was more grinding in that you only win with 0 mistakes. I liked Bloodborne the best. Probably because of this mechanic and the fact it worked best for my playing style.

If the poor frame rates make you nauseous, I can totally understand the enjoyment for the game would plummet. It seemed a lot worse in the beginning of the game. And, was annoying at the worst possible moment. It’s too bad no patch ever fixed that because the game would be near perfect instead.

When I first started playing the game one of my first concerns was actually that I thought they were being too generous with the blood vials. 20 to start, and enemies were dropping tons of them everywhere. This was of course before I realized they were finite consumables, and I wasted a ton of them as I messed around learning the game's new mechanics in Yharnam. Then as I progressed and started fighting bosses I burned through more and learned that I'd need to farm them after boss fights. I know that later on I'd likely stock up plenty and it wouldn't be an issue but still, it remains a game design feature I just don't like.

Also, not sure if playing with a guide made this easier, but as for me doing a blind playthrough and when coming across a new boss the best strategy to not waste time was to do a few "test" fights without using up any vials just to get a look and learn the boss's attacks. Then when I felt ready enough I would do an actual attempt and use vials to heal. This seemed like such a nonsensical way to have to approach bosses in the game, but the alternative would be to likely use up all vials on a couple early boss attempts because I didn't know the boss well enough yet. Then have to waste time farming for more vials if I didn't have enough in storage. It just screams "what were they thinking" when I trying to understand the design. :hmm: Of course I did manage to beat a couple bosses in one or two tries which is best case scenario, but I can't expect that to continue as I get further into the game and face tougher bosses.
 
It IS an existential crisis! :lol: :lol: I get it lol.

Its just so bizarre. I never would have guessed I would actually not enjoy the game. I hate this because I feel like I'm just a bag of excuses. But this whole thing with this game has really got me bugged out. Always figured it was a no brainer that BB would be just another Souls game I would love once I finally played it. I guess I have just been accustomed to their games so long that apparently if they mess with the formula in just such a right way it apparently wont sit right with me. Also yes, the physical issues are a real thing and absolutely playing into my judgment of the game too which is sad because I feel its unfair of me to conflate, and I should be separating that issue from my gripes of the gameplay.

Anyways like I said I will still likely finish the game just so I have a complete perspective to judge from (and I think its criminal for me to not finish a Souls game once I start it). But I'll likely do it slowly, little bits at a time as I get up the nerve to put up with it.
 
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Its just so bizarre. I never would have guessed I would actually not enjoy the game. I hate this because I feel like I'm just a bag of excuses. But this whole thing with this game has really got me bugged out. Always figured it was a no brainer that BB would be just another Souls game I would love once I finally played it. I guess I have just been accustomed to their games so long that apparently if they mess with the formula in just such a right way it apparently wont sit right with me. Also yes, the physical issues are a real thing and absolutely playing into my judgment of the game too which is sad because I feel its unfair of me to conflate, and I should be separating that issue from my gripes of the gameplay.

Anyways like I said I will still likely finish the game just so I have a complete perspective to judge from (and I think its criminal for me to not finish a Souls game once I start it). But I'll likely do it slowly, little bits at a time as I get up the nerve to put up with it.

If it's a chore, then bail.
BB is a marmite game and if your struggling with it now, don't go near the DLC, which ramps up the difficulty and sponge like nature of enemies (particularly the final harbour area, there are certain enemies there that i'm still cursing, e.g. "the well" & having to chip damage).
 
If it's a chore, then bail.

BB is a marmite game and if your struggling with it now, don't go near the DLC, which ramps up the difficulty and sponge like nature of enemies (particularly the final harbour area, there are certain enemies there that i'm still cursing, e.g. "the well" & having to chip damage).
Yeah calling it a chore is actually pretty spot on to how i feel about the game. Just not having fun with it.

Previous Souls games were also a challenge of course, but in a good way where i always enjoyed the effort and it felt satisfying no matter if i succeeded or failed and i always wanted to keep trying. This game provides more frustration and disappointment than enjoyment and i usually just want to turn it off when i die.

I actually did fire it up for a bit this morning to mess around. Instantly got annoyed when i was reminded of how NPC hunters like to spam gunshot fire at you in duels which takes off 1/4 of my health per shot. Then try getting close and they parry me. Pigs are flying i finally see the bullshit in a Souls game. :lol:
 
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