MSI GeForce RTX 2070 GAMING Z Performance Review

Exposed said:
It's not like he walked into a Best Buy and bought a card. :lol:

Someone sold to him out of NDA. The fact he went out of his way to protect who sold him the card in GPU Z so they couldn't be tracked down, is by itself an indicator that somebody did something wrong. In this case Nvidia should be more keen on who sold him the card, not Kyle directly. An NDA is a legally binding contract that requires parties to keep confidentiality for a defined period of time. Kyle might not have signed one, but in theory he could be subpoenad to find out who did sell him one because that party broke NDA. I doubt nvidia will go that far though.
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What? GPU Z doesn't tell you the retailer of any card.. I have yet to have GPU Z tell me I purchased my card from Amazon, Newegg, or god himself.
 
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SIrPauly said:
https://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/3329-talking-to-a-lawyer-on-nvidia-nda
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You do realize that they are only commenting on the NDA they where offered. They have NO idea what was included in the NDA that was offered to [H]ardocp. Don't assume that every NDA contract is the same, as they can modify each one to fit their needs with who they are offering the NDA . You can bet your ass that after the GPP fiasco, Nvidia had a special NDA for [H]ardocp.

It all comes down to control. Nvidia and others are pissed because they are failing to control [H]ardocp.
 
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NWR_Midnight said:
What? GPU Z doesn't tell you the retailer of any card, just the manufacture. I have yet to have GPU Z tell me I purchased my card from Amazon, Newegg, or god himself.
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GPU Z tells you the device id and that can be traced to where/who (region/seller etc..) Just like a serial #. Or did you think graphics card are blindly built and sent anywhere on a whim without being tracked? Heck even the BIOS version might have been a giveaway if there are differences in regional versions.

Kyle even makes this very clear:

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/10/14/msi_geforce_rtx_2070_gaming_z_performance_review/2

We have redacted a bit of the information above in order to keep our sources from being tracked down by NVIDIA and punished for supplying us the card we are reviewing today.

Note the fields that were blanked out?
 
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Exposed said:
GPU Z tells you the device id and that can be traced to where/who (region/seller etc..) Just like a serial #. Or did you think graphics card are blindly built and sent anywhere on a whim without being tracked?

Kyle even makes this very clear:

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/10/14/msi_geforce_rtx_2070_gaming_z_performance_review/2

We have redacted a bit of the information above in order to keep our sources from being tracked down by NVIDIA and punished for supplying us the card we are reviewing today.

Note the fields that were blanked out?
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I saw all the fields that where blanked out, as well as what he said. It appears Kyle doesn't understand those fields, as ALL identical cards, will have the same identical information. The only difference is possibly regional location, which is country, and nothing else. But I seriously doubt the device id is even changed for region. In other words, for example: All identical cards sold in the USA will have those all show the same, the exception is the bios/release date may be older newer based on when they where produced/released and if their are any revisions. I suspect all identical cards sold world wide have identical device-ids and there is no difference based on region.

There is no way to track down an individual vendor from anything GPU-Z shows. Kyle is just playing it safe.
 
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NWR_Midnight said:
I saw all the fields that where blanked out. It appears Kyle doesn't understand those fields, as ALL identical cards, will have the same identical information. The only difference is possibly regional location, which is country, and nothing else. In other words, for example: All identical cards sold in the USA will have the those all show the same, the exception is the bios/release date may be older newer based on when they where produced.

There is no way to track down an individual vendor from anything GPU-Z shows.
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Device ID incorporates vendor information for Nvidia so yes while all identical vendor cards sold in USA might be the same, it might be different for the same vendor cards sold out of China.

Kyle obviously wasn't as confident as you are that is why he left those fields off.
 
I believe it has more to do with Kyle not wanting to take any risk what-so-ever as an act of good faith towards the person(s) who supplied him the card. I don’t think any of that info is able to narrow down identification specific enough to get anyone in trouble, but no point in taking that risk anyway.
 
Exposed said:
Device ID incorporates vendor information for Nvidia so yes while all identical vendor cards sold in USA might be the same, it might be different for the same vendor cards sold out of China.

Kyle obviously wasn't as confident as you are that is why he left those fields off.
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No it doesn't a device ID is part number.. That's it, it has NOTHING to do with vendors.
 
Let’s not argue over semantics. He hid the information to avoid putting his supplier at risk, even if the risk was extremely minimal. Good on him.
 
NWR_Midnight said:
You do realize that they are only commenting on the NDA they where offered. They have NO idea what was included in the NDA that was offered to [H]ardocp. Don't assume that every NDA contract is the same, as they can modify each one to fit their needs with who they are offering the NDA . You can bet your ass that after the GPP fiasco, Nvidia had a special NDA for [H]ardocp.

It all comes down to control. Nvidia and others are pissed because they are failing to control [H]ardocp.
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They're clearly talking about the nda that was leaked and the silly conjecture and conspiracy theories. If Nvidia really tried to control review content, the sites would band together against Nvidia. Many of the reviews were not glowing with rtx, where was Nvidia controlling them?
 
DeathKnight said:
Whether it's a review sample or not takes a back seat to the general behavior. He's made it pretty clear he'll source product wherever he can to get the first review out ahead of any official embargo with the justification that he's not under an NDA. What's to stop him from continuing to do this? How likely is he to sign any NDA's in the future (from whatever company) or stick to review embargoes? It's definitely a rabbit hole but is it the wisest choice to be going down this one? I guess we'll see.
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If these guys can source hardware faster that I'm guessing they're actually paying for then I say go ahead and post it. The guys getting free hardware from Nvidia can just deal with being scooped. They aren't having to source and pay for their own hardware, so the cost of that is agreeing to the NDA. If they don't want to deal with that, there is nothing stopping them from doing the same. If this encourages more reviews to buy their own hardware and not be indebted to the big hardware vendors then that might actually be a positive as well.

By the same token if Kyle received his card later because he didn't have good sources, no one would cry for him if his review went up late. This time he got it early and his review went up early. Maybe other reviewers won't like it, but HardOCP will have to deal with any blowback from that. That's also a choice they made.
 
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He made a pool some time ago to sign or not to sign the NDA.His community agreed to NOT sign the NDA.They pay for his hardware through Patreon.Community sustain his actions and support him to be as independent as possible.This review seems the first fruit of that.
 
I take it back bro, it looks to be half way between 1080 and Ti most of the time. Sometimes it's slower than 1080, but not often.
 
demo said:
I take it back bro, it looks to be half way between 1080 and Ti most of the time. Sometimes it's slower than 1080, but not often.
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hmm cheapest 2070ti is $650cdn(the gigabyte windforce version) and $876cdn for a zotac 1080ti and $675 for a gigabyte gaming vega64

almost tempted to a order a 2070 unless i can find a cheaper 1080ti
 
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I would wait. Prices will hopefully stabilize once 2080TI stock stabilizes.
 
demo said:
I take it back bro, it looks to be half way between 1080 and Ti most of the time. Sometimes it's slower than 1080, but not often.
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Depends on the resultoion. It pulls away at 1080p but as the res increases it starts to level out with the GTX 1080. Don’t forget it’s a few hundred bucks more expensive than the 1080.
 
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