digitalwanderer
New member
Not to mention gently erroding their loyal fanbase from within....Flecceh said:
Nvidia caught cheating again!
- Thread starter Apokolips64
- Start date
DarkSyde
New member
Re: Are you insane!
Re: Are you insane!
Honestly, at this rate, I'm not so sure the entire graphics industry wouldn't be better off without nVidia, higher prices or not. What is needed is another RESPECTABLE company to come in (other than ATI) and put the nail in nVidia's coffin.
...and so you know I am in no way an ATI fanboy. I am a gamer and **** like nVidia is pulling just screws up everything for us, the pc gamers.
Re: Are you insane!
SirBenn21 said:Are you insane!?! Competition is what makes ATI what it is today. It also makes pricing competitive.
There is a good saying. "Be careful what you wish for."
As for the cheating story. LOLMakes me feel good that I own an ATI.
Cheers
SirBenn21
Honestly, at this rate, I'm not so sure the entire graphics industry wouldn't be better off without nVidia, higher prices or not. What is needed is another RESPECTABLE company to come in (other than ATI) and put the nail in nVidia's coffin.
...and so you know I am in no way an ATI fanboy. I am a gamer and **** like nVidia is pulling just screws up everything for us, the pc gamers.
VileSorcery
New member
My buddy just got a 5900 Ultra 256MB and it rocks. 
Timz0r said:My buddy just got a 5900 Ultra 256MB and it rocks.
HAHAHA! Very funny. Nice 'against the grain' post there.
My buddy just got a Radeon 8500 and it rocks!
Flecceh
New member
couldnt have put it better,personally ive got a 9700p so i wont be upgrading for a while. Neway, fair enough if their NV30/35 lineup sucked, companies are allowed to ****up designs and plans, ive done it many a time in science at school. But driver cheating (We can say cheating, its confirmed! Lower IQ for better performance in a performance bench) is not on, when i download the cat 3.5's ill think yey performance gains, driver fixes(maybe more bugsFiggyG said:Ohh yeah?! I got an 8500 and it rocks
nVidia just destroyed any chances of me buying any of their products, and I'm sure I'm not the only on whom feels this way. It's ATI, Creative, S3, whoever... just not nVidia
) , those clever ati blokes. But with an FX, ill be thinking hmmm bug fixes, increased performance...lower iq 
! Im not going nvidia again, not for a long long time!
Yeuemmaimai
New member
matrox is on an extended 3d vacation
eric420247
New member
I used to post on forums all the time. Mostly Frustrated, that was when I owned nvidia products. ever since I went to Radeon, this is the first post i've made.
Nvidia need's to cheat for second! not frustrated
Nvidia need's to cheat for second! not frustrated
Nakor Allthumbs
New member
"Nvidia need's to cheat for second place!" Couldn't put it better myself.
SirBenn21
New member
Re: Re: Are you insane!
Re: Re: Are you insane!
I still tend to disagree with you. ATI at one stage also was cheating and look where they are today. It's all a learning experience, which will make them stronger.
For some strange reason, I have always seemed to support the underdog in the display card world. When Voodoo 2 was top dog, I had the then newly released nVidia TNT 16MB. When nVidia was top I got the Voodoo 3500/4500 and now an ATI. Now ATI is starting to be respected as Top Dog. I doubt I'll change now to nVidia.
The point I'm trying to make is that all manufacturers have a roller-coaster ride. Some of them get big heads and that normally causes them to fail. 3DFX is a good example and I believe nVidia is on the same path. I just hope they get a wake-up call before it's to late. I’m by no means a nVidia fan boy, but they have some great display cards. The only problem is that they are desperate to retake their title as King.
See where pride gets you.
SirBenn21
Re: Re: Are you insane!
DarkSyde said:
I still tend to disagree with you. ATI at one stage also was cheating and look where they are today. It's all a learning experience, which will make them stronger.
For some strange reason, I have always seemed to support the underdog in the display card world. When Voodoo 2 was top dog, I had the then newly released nVidia TNT 16MB. When nVidia was top I got the Voodoo 3500/4500 and now an ATI. Now ATI is starting to be respected as Top Dog. I doubt I'll change now to nVidia.
The point I'm trying to make is that all manufacturers have a roller-coaster ride. Some of them get big heads and that normally causes them to fail. 3DFX is a good example and I believe nVidia is on the same path. I just hope they get a wake-up call before it's to late. I’m by no means a nVidia fan boy, but they have some great display cards. The only problem is that they are desperate to retake their title as King.
See where pride gets you.
SirBenn21
Dear god
Dear god
As my friend who linked me this said 'If you want a speed boost on an FX just rename any game you have to 3dmark03.exe.
This now calls into question two things... the FXs performance at AA across the board, which if looked really good at, and specifically the doom 3 AA performance, which was suspect in the first place. Didn't it go *up* with AA on on the nvidia cards in one set of benchmarks I saw? Don't take my word for it until someone remembers where and produces a link. My brain could just have messed up.
As I said in a thread a while back... this isn't over... but f**k even i didn't expect that they were *still* cheating/optimising on 2003.
The iq of the two, well the 3d mark iq is below 3d mark, specifically on the set of drawers, but it still isn't terrible. Why isn't that quality a setting in their drivers that you can choose yourself? Oh yeah because they want to inflate their AA scores. Silly me.
What makes me hesitant on this whole thing is two fold. Memories of Quack... which may or may not have been a cheat, that they fixed IQ without damaging performances suggests not, but when someone like Humus has a different opinion, well I respect his work and believe he knows what he's talking about. ATi may have been cheating, may not have been, but they got dragged through the mud face first over it all. I'm worried that we'll be taken back there.
And then, we have the uncomfortable fact this came from ATi. Remember where Quack came from? Not Hard OCP as Tech Report say, but NVidia as Tom at Tom's Hardware revealed to everyone. But Kyle didn't name his source, took all the credit and NVidia of course didn't mind either.
However you look at this fanATIc or not, the fact it came from ATI brings it into more questioning than if anyone else had found it since they have a vested interest in it. I think it's time to start renaming all our benchmarking programs to see if it makes any difference. In scores and in IQ.
I wouldn't take the Tech Report article as anything more than a 'strange quirk' right now since there could be more going on, but my feelings are that, it's more of the same crap Nvidia have been pulling of late.
That this comes out after the so called 'truce' really is going to hurt, and even worse, is the exact same thing they called ATI out on over Quack, saying then that they'd never do the same thing themselves. And now, even though they're still making a lot more money than ATI, they're cheating to stop ATI gaining more ground on them.
ATI haven't overtaken them in sales yet. Just performance... but I guess NVidia see where that could go.
My final comment?
BIG props to Tech Report for stating their source was ATI. That's what Kyle *should* have done with Quack. Nice to see some people doing things the *right* way.
Foxy
Dear god
As my friend who linked me this said 'If you want a speed boost on an FX just rename any game you have to 3dmark03.exe.
This now calls into question two things... the FXs performance at AA across the board, which if looked really good at, and specifically the doom 3 AA performance, which was suspect in the first place. Didn't it go *up* with AA on on the nvidia cards in one set of benchmarks I saw? Don't take my word for it until someone remembers where and produces a link. My brain could just have messed up.
As I said in a thread a while back... this isn't over... but f**k even i didn't expect that they were *still* cheating/optimising on 2003.
The iq of the two, well the 3d mark iq is below 3d mark, specifically on the set of drawers, but it still isn't terrible. Why isn't that quality a setting in their drivers that you can choose yourself? Oh yeah because they want to inflate their AA scores. Silly me.
What makes me hesitant on this whole thing is two fold. Memories of Quack... which may or may not have been a cheat, that they fixed IQ without damaging performances suggests not, but when someone like Humus has a different opinion, well I respect his work and believe he knows what he's talking about. ATi may have been cheating, may not have been, but they got dragged through the mud face first over it all. I'm worried that we'll be taken back there.
And then, we have the uncomfortable fact this came from ATi. Remember where Quack came from? Not Hard OCP as Tech Report say, but NVidia as Tom at Tom's Hardware revealed to everyone. But Kyle didn't name his source, took all the credit and NVidia of course didn't mind either.
However you look at this fanATIc or not, the fact it came from ATI brings it into more questioning than if anyone else had found it since they have a vested interest in it. I think it's time to start renaming all our benchmarking programs to see if it makes any difference. In scores and in IQ.
I wouldn't take the Tech Report article as anything more than a 'strange quirk' right now since there could be more going on, but my feelings are that, it's more of the same crap Nvidia have been pulling of late.
That this comes out after the so called 'truce' really is going to hurt, and even worse, is the exact same thing they called ATI out on over Quack, saying then that they'd never do the same thing themselves. And now, even though they're still making a lot more money than ATI, they're cheating to stop ATI gaining more ground on them.
ATI haven't overtaken them in sales yet. Just performance... but I guess NVidia see where that could go.
My final comment?
BIG props to Tech Report for stating their source was ATI. That's what Kyle *should* have done with Quack. Nice to see some people doing things the *right* way.
Foxy
SeymourButts
New member
Ummm... Dumb question... Did anyone try to rename some of the other benchmarks and see if the results differ too?
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Proud owner of a Radeon 9700 Pro
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Proud owner of a Radeon 9700 Pro
TheMonkeyBoyz
New member
My hope here is that Nvidia will get hammered as much as ATI did 2 years ago and spend the next 9-12 months trying to dig themselves out of it, sucking it up, stop the cheating and get back to making good products with good drivers.
Back when I was a huge fanboy of ATI and the cheat thing happened, I stopped buying anything ATI for at least 20 months I think, but that was also when Nvidia was on a roll and made great cards and had stable drivers.
Now I'm an ATI user again with the 9800 Pro and Nvidia goes and stumbles. Maybe it is there turn to suffer for a while at the hands of consumers, no?
I'm still torqued that ATI felt they had to pull that "Nya Nya Nya Nya Nya" BS and get back at Nvidia by tipping everybody off, but at least it is good to see Nvidia get exposed for cheating.
My hope is that ATI will NOT cheat and understand the whole "you should not throw rocks in a glass house" gig.
Consumers are the ones getting shafted. I mean, who do you trust? Takes you 18 months to get over ATI being a cheating scumbag and now Nvidia is the cheating scumbag instead!
I guess it's time to "Buy ATI" instead of anything Nvidia, if for no other reason than to avoid supporting the "cheater of the day", as it were.
Back when I was a huge fanboy of ATI and the cheat thing happened, I stopped buying anything ATI for at least 20 months I think, but that was also when Nvidia was on a roll and made great cards and had stable drivers.
Now I'm an ATI user again with the 9800 Pro and Nvidia goes and stumbles. Maybe it is there turn to suffer for a while at the hands of consumers, no?
I'm still torqued that ATI felt they had to pull that "Nya Nya Nya Nya Nya" BS and get back at Nvidia by tipping everybody off, but at least it is good to see Nvidia get exposed for cheating.
My hope is that ATI will NOT cheat and understand the whole "you should not throw rocks in a glass house" gig.
Consumers are the ones getting shafted. I mean, who do you trust? Takes you 18 months to get over ATI being a cheating scumbag and now Nvidia is the cheating scumbag instead!
I guess it's time to "Buy ATI" instead of anything Nvidia, if for no other reason than to avoid supporting the "cheater of the day", as it were.
TheMonkeyBoyz
New member
digitalwanderer said:Me too. A bit-o-advice: I found the 30.82 set to be the last stable/decent/no-"surprises" set for me own GF4 ti4400.
I think I've said this before (I'm not that smart) but I totally am down with you on that 30.82 gig, fo shizzle my nizzle.
(see, I watch MTV like those crazy younger kids out there do, and I'm as hip as a pasty white boy can get...
)I never thought Nvidia would write cruddy drivers. The stable drivers (along with the ATI cheat 2 years ago) is what got me to try their products. Once I found Leadtek, and the horrible 2D quality was taken care of on the Nvidia side, I was very pleased with their drivers. But now, Nvidia has drivers that at best might be equal to ATI's.
I'm hoping that Cat 3.5 will fix many of the issues that Cat 3.4 and earlier users are having so we can clearly say that the latest Cat's are better than the latest Det's.